Completely useless?

[Charlie_132]

Thanks for all the advice, maybe I shouldn't be too frustrated/annoyed with myself.

I do feel quite stupiud that I have never seen Andromeda though.... But I might not be missing much viewing it from Stevenage, when/if I ever find it....

Is it possible that I have gone straight past it mistaking it for a bright star? Or would I be able to make out a little bit of fuzzyness about it even from my back garden?


LeeB - I currently have a right angle finder scope on my mak, but I find star hopping verr difficult because of the magnification on the finder (the maginfication is very nice though with it being perfectly still, but maybe I should get rid of it and get some 9x50 binoculars and a telrad).... With the red dot finder I just found myself getting in horribly uncomfortable positons and not wanting to find things becasue of the angle my neck would be getting in....

How is the  telrad finder?

Does it have any magnification?
 

[ghostdance]

Hi Charlie

Stevenage.....duh, I thought it was Milton Keynes! Silly me....

The Telrad, like the Rigel Quickfinder, is a no mag affair. I have the Rigel and it is a good little thing - very easy to use and get you to the area or star you want. Telrad has a bigger 'screen' so I imagine would be even easier. Form factor is larger tho which is why I went for the Rigel as it's pretty small.

Andromeda will look like a grey fuzzy ovoid patch brighter in the centre, in bins and small scopes. What you'll see is the centre portion of the galaxy - it's a lot more extensive (see photographs in the imaging section) but I have never seen the arms. On a really clear night once I thought I could make out a wider ovoid shape, but this could have been wishful thinking. How it looks in bigger scopes than 6" I dunno...from what I've read it may look similar in 8" scopes too.

[jamespels]

Andromeda will look like a grey fuzzy ovoid patch brighter in the centre, in bins and small scopes. What you'll see is the centre portion of the galaxy - it's a lot more extensive (see photographs in the imaging section) but I have never seen the arms. On a really clear night once I thought I could make out a wider ovoid shape, but this could have been wishful thinking. How it looks in bigger scopes than 6" I dunno...from what I've read it may look similar in 8" scopes too.

Pretty much the same in an 10", at least on a mag 5 night with a 25mm EP, though that was really too high mag for Andromeda. I could see the two nearby galaxies, though. From the same sky, I can see the core clearly in a pair of 8 x 40 bins and even in my daughter's (good) 20mm (ish) bins.

If you find it, you will definitely not mistake it for a star - it really is a fuzzy patch and ghostdance's description matches what I see pretty much exactly. More likely you will mistake it for a smudge on your lens or something. Irritatingly, once you have found it the first time, you will find you go to it almost automatically from then on. Like I said above, it took may ages to find it the first time but it has reached the stage I no longer star-hop to it at all - I just point the finder / bins in roughly the right place and find it with a quick scan . 

Keep at it, you have a good scope and will do fine.

James.

[Hootsitabernacle]

How do, stellarium aint free but at £1.58 its a bit of a bargain..and if you have an amazon appstore on your phone you get so many hundred coins free and you could get it for nothing..its a great app and its what I use

[esxste]

Hi Charlie, 

If you fancy a drive, North Essex Astronomical Society have an open evening tomorrow night at Great Notley Country Park (http://northessexastro.wordpress.com/stargazing/). According to http://clearoutside.com/forecast/51.88/0.57 at the time of writing, it's expected to be clear in the early evening. 

They'll be able to help you out, and certainly guide you to Andromeda for sure. 

Regards, 

[Charlie_132]

Hello, quick update.

Thanks for all the advice/offers.

Unfortunately I don't own own a car at the moment, so I can't get to anywhere dark, other then a cambridge astronomy group for advice, and a letchworth one.

I can't download sky maps for my phone, as I still have a blackbery... But I use Stellatium inside the house on the laptop

I managed to find Andromeda tonight finally! By using the red ish star south of it.

I couldn't see it using 8x30 binoculars in my back garden, but I could see it just about in the 9x50 right angle finder scope, but could see it even better through the telescope itself.

I think it was Andromeda anyway.... It looked like a fuzzy ball that seemed a little asthough I could see through it.

I couldn't see the other galaxy next to it though. I read that Andromeda is the cigar shaped one then there is a spiral shaped one to the top left?
I may of been looking at the spiral shaped one, as it looked more round and fuzzy rather then a cigar shape, although I could be wrong.

At times it looked like the cigar and at times it looked round. But that could of just been my eye being strange.

I am pretty sure it was Andromeda though. Because the spital one wouldn't of been as big?

I am sure someone will correct me though.

[jamespels]

Damn - ended up making damson jam with my daughter (damsel jam as she calls it!!!) so didn't get a chance to try to replicate this issue - sorry!

Next evening I am home at a decent time, I will try.

Any access to skype from a mobile? Could take a quick look one evening if that would help. PM me if interested.

James.

[itmo]

Astronomy is not a competition (usually) and not many people get paid to do it , so it is not productive to think how "good" you are at it. Otherwise you will go into a spiral of feeling bad about it or a spiral of trying to achieve or overachieve. This takes the fun out of it, which is the only thing you are going to get from it. 

As for galaxies. At first they are for some reason easy to miss. Later on you will wonder how you were able to miss them. If you saw a fuzzy blob it is either a galaxy or a comet, since there are no large comets near andromeda , it probably was andromeda.

Unfortunately, light pollution will make viewing galaxies very difficult and you cant even get around it with filters. Even if you dont have a car, I suggest you try to find some way to get to really dark site ,maybe by only bringing your binos and that finder scope with you. At a really dark site the starry sky and milky way is a wonder to behold even with naked eye. 

If you are interested in deep sky , i suggest you try globular clusters , open clusters and brighter planetary nebulas. They tolerate light pollution better. 

[Charlie_132]

I guess from a very dark site, I could scan the sky with the 127 mak and find lots of round/cigar shaped fuzzy patches?

Or could I do this with even 9x50 binoculars?

I probably won't go to a dark site now until next year, I am not really sure what dark sites are close to me. I would probably have to go to Cornwall or Wales, or the Lake District maybe. But that can be arranged closer to the time...

[Feral Rabbit]

Don't crucify yourself Charlie. I saw Andromeda Galaxy (M32) for the first time last Friday, with bino's. I haven't got a laptop yet so I was outside with a printed and laminated (optional) hard copy of Andromeda star field with M32 on it .

As it had been a complete failure trying to look for M32 numerous times with the scope I decided to just use the bin's. So I was in the garden and my sole purpose was to find M32 and I did nothing but look up into the sky, check the maps, recheck the sky, check the maps and so on for about 40 minutes. I was sure I was looking in the right area but I just couldn't see it.

I was about to give up when I had one more go and lo and behold I it saw immediately. I was chuffed to bits.

The thing is now that I have seen it through my bins I can go straight to it immediately with the scope (My alignment still needs work mind  ).

Once you've found it you will always know where it is.

Don't let not having a laptop with you hold you back. It doesn't matter what reference medium you use.

I would say take a hardcopy of the star field, your binoculars and go to a dark site and try to find it that way. Once found you will know exactly where to look with your scope.

Keep trying and clear skies

Martin

[Feral Rabbit]

I live 5 miles as the crow flies from Gatwick and the amount of light pollution from there is equivalent to a medium sized town.  You don't need to go all the way to Cornwall or the Lakes to get reasonable dark skies mate.

[jamespels]

Damn - ended up making damson jam with my daughter (damsel jam as she calls it!!!) so didn't get a chance to try to replicate this issue - sorry!

Next evening I am home at a decent time, I will try.

Any access to skype from a mobile? Could take a quick look one evening if that would help. PM me if interested.

James.

Apologies - wrong thread entirely. .

Stick at it, though, and the advice about getting out with some bins is good. Take a good look at the local area on a map or Google Earth, too. There may not be any truly dark sky sites around but I bet there are a few surprisingly dark places you walk or get a bus to (taking sensible precautions, of course). For instance, I used to live near Chiswick and would never have guessed there was anywhere dark around, till I took a boat trip up the Thames and was in the dark in about 5 minutes - just cutting away the glare from local streetlights makes a huge difference. Sky conditions make a huge difference, too. Where I live right on the edge of Stoke (with a small hill in between to prevent line if sight glow), with a bit of moisture in the air half the sky is orange but on good nights there is little more than a feint glow on the horizon.

So, grab some bins, find somewhere _safe_ (go with someone, ideally) and relatively dark and go for it.

[Charlie_132]

So basically I could go somewhere 10miles away maybe and find somewhere with better sky quality?

Does anyone know of any maps that are good to look at for light pollution?
I only found one which said that SW Cornwall is only middle okay ish skies........... So I won't be listening to that site.

[AndyWB]

I've always used this. It's not entirely accurate, but seems a good guide. http://www.avex-asso.org/dossiers/pl/uk/index.html