Surfer Chris

Purchased the tripod from UK dealer. To be fair Berlebach seem to be quite responsive to the e-mails I have sent so far. Have sent another e-mail to them this eve asking how much the module with custom screw will be. I am a design engineer too (for my sins), and I also go by the rule of thumb of 1x thread diameter in steel and 2x in aluminium where I can. I believe that full strength can be developed over just two turns of a thread, but I know from experience that with aluminium threads, in cases where the thread is routinely assembled and disassembled, and where <1x thread diameter of engagement is used, eventually over many cycles (e.g. 100+) the thread will shear as the aluminium fails through fatigue.

That was my first hope (that I could simply get a longer screw). I contacted Berlebach about it. They told me the screw height (6.8mm) is an international standard length and that is all they make as standard. Unfortunately the screw assembly (it includes a plastic over-moulded knob on the lower end) is captive within the tripod module insert (the screw is held captive by a plate I think that is bonded into the module). They mentioned about making me a special module with longer screw (the complete module is shown below). I didn't take the conversation any further though - as I suspect there will be a reasonable charge for Berlebach to make this custom module, and I am able to get my solution (the adaptor plate) made for free. Just out of interest though, I might get back to Berlebach and ask them about the price for the custom module.

You made me doubt myself now. Just grabbed the Scopetech manual - and it is indicating the female thread is 3/8" like I said. But the thread form is not my main concern, it is the big 3mm chamfer on the lead-in to the female thread. That takes 3mm away from the possible thread engagement (which is already limited by the fact that the male stud is only 6.8mm high). It is the very limited (only 3mm) of thread engagement into a fairly soft alloy that concerns me. Thankfully I used to work for an engineering company, and they have offered to machine the adaptor plate for me.

I am sure those using the Scopetech and Berlebach combo may have already noticed this issue. But thought I would share it as a warning, especially for those routinely disassembling the mount from their tripods.

I am not too happy about this coupling. Generally, I will probably leave the mount always attached to the tripod. But if I was routinely dis-mantling the mount from the tripod, I would imagine the female thread would quite quickly wear or even fail through fatigue one day. To reduce the risk, I am getting an engineering company to make up an adaptor plate I have drawn up. It will be a simple stainless steel disk (56.6mm OD x 7.5mm thick), with a 3/8" tapped hole running through the middle. I will then fix the adaptor plate to the 2x outboard M8 thread holes on the underside of the Scopetech mount using M8 countersunk screws. So the adaptor plate will become fixed to the mount. My Berlebach stud will then thread into the stronger stainless steel 3/8" thread on the adaptor plate. The threaded hole in the adaptor plate will not have the big 3mm lead-in chamfer, so it will provide more thread engagement with the stud.

Something else I thought I would share with those using the Scopetech mount, I noticed when I first assembled the mount that the thread engagement between my Berlebach Report tripod and the Scopetech mount is very limited. The threaded male stud on the Berlebach tripod is quite short at only 6.8mm high. And the corresponding female threaded hole on the Scopetech mount has a very big 3mm lead-in chamfer (see photo below). This means that there is effectively only about 3mm of thread engagement between the two, and so only about 2 single turns of the thread holding my valuable scope and mount onto the tripod!!!! And to make things worse, the Scopetech mount is made from a fairly soft die-cast aluminium alloy, and the thread form is not great either (it looks like the tap drill used was slightly too big). So I have 2 turns of a thread in a soft aluminium alloy, and a poorly cut thread holding my Tak scope up!

Thanks for the reply Stu. Yeah I was thinking 185x would be a good magnification for my mount and scope. I am kind of thinking that I might be better spending a little more money getting a 4mm and 7mm Delite (approx. £240 + 240) rather than the cost of a 7mm Delite + Barlow ( £240 + £120). Plus I am still unsure if I would run into issues with focus using the Barlow. Can always go back and ask the retailer about that though. I guess another plus with a Barlow is I could also use it with my Panoptic to get an effective 12mm? Yes I have noticed some floaters with the 5mm BST EP when looking at the moon. I noticed a small cluster of 4 dots the other evening. Annoyingly they looked like very small craterlets. But thankfully not too distracting for me, so will hold off trying bino-viewing for a while yet (although I also said that I would wait a while before splashing out on more expensive eyepieces!!!). The 3-6mm Nagler zoom was another option I was considering. I have read differing opinions though, some saying a fixed length EP such as the Delite will give slightly better views, and others saying that they see very little difference between the two? Plus of course the Delite has a wider FOV which may be beneficial with my manually driven Scopetech mount.

Hi Everybody. Just wondering if I could ask for your opinions on a high power eyepiece selection for the FC100-DC? I know I said I would build up my eyepiece collection slowly over time....but I cant wait! Following on from the last post, I purchased the TV 24mm Panoptic in the end. So for eyepieces, I now have a 24mm Pan, 5mm BST Starguider, 8-24mm Baader Zoom, & a cheap 10mm Plossl. I now want to start getting a couple of decent high power eyepieces. I have been getting on fine with the Baader zoom and the 5mm BST and enjoying lunar viewing with these, but feel like I want to push the magnification a little further than possible with the 5mm. I find the BST to be generally quite comfortable, and the eye relief good. With the Plosssl (the eye relief is about 10mm), although the views are crisp enough, I find that a bit close for comfort and also noticed the other day that it kept fogging up which was annoying. So I am thinking that something with a little more eye relief is better for me, and hopefully extra eye relief will minimise the fogging issue. After a bit of reading up, I was thinking between a 4mm TV Delite and 4mm TOE. But think I have ruled out the TOE because of the eye relief. So, if I go for a TV Delite, the next question (which I am hoping some of you guys might be able to help me with) is whether I should go straight in for a 4mm, or whether I should go for something like a 7mm Delite and 2x Barlow? Speaking to a particular retailer yesterday, they actually suggested going for a 7mm or 9mm Delite and barlow rather than a fixed length 4mm EP. I think their reasoning was that I would generally get more use out of a 7mm eyepiece, and a 4mm alone would get limited use. But the person I spoke to also suggested that for higher power use, I might actually get a better viewing experience with the 7mm & 2x Barlow rather than a fixed 4mm EP alone? Their Barlow suggestion was a 2x Celestron X-Cel, or a TV 2x Barlow. I kind of thought that the extra glass presented by the Barlow would detract from the views? Anyway, I am just wondering if using a Barlow would be problematic with the FC100-DC and the Tak prism diagonal that I have since I know these scopes have limited focus travel? If I was to purchase a 7mm Delite and a 2x TV Barlow (mounted into the Tak diagonal), would I still be able to achieve focus OK? I don't want to be having to unscrew any of the the Tak extension rings in and out to just use a Barlow. If I have to do that, I would rather just get extra fixed focal length EP's (i.e. get a 4mm Delite and a 7mm Delite and not use a Barlow). I am also a little nervous about the nose of the Barlow hitting the prism in the diagonal. Any thoughts would be really appreciated.

Thanks John. I need to expand on the eyepiece collection. I was going to treat myself to perhaps one good new eyepiece on this current spending spree. Then perhaps look out for some good used EP's over the next few months. So was thinking of ordering the 24mm Panoptic. I am guessing that this will offer a far superior experience (with wider FOV) compared to the 24mm setting on the Baader zoom I purchased. And I am not simply wasting my money buying an EP with a focal length already covered with the Baader zoom?

Sorry - double cluster in Perseus in last post!

Took it out last night and WOW. Looked at Orion nebula, double cluster in Hercules, Pleiades, Andromeda (M31) & Mars with the kids. I think I was most impressed (blown away) with the star clusters & the Orion nebula. It was great to have the kids out and very excited about looking through the scope. My son seemed to really like being able to see M31 knowing it is 2.5 million light years away - even though it only appeared as a fuzzy flattened patch. I have to admit though, I was a little disappointed with Mars. I could see a bright pinkish clear disc shape with a 5mm BST (seeing an actual proper disc was a first for me so that was great), but it was quite small. I think I could possibly make out some albedo markings in the centre of the disc. But I understand Mars has moved quite far away already since opposition? I also noticed that I could detect an ever so slight red and blue fringe either side of the disc? I wasn't expecting to see this? It didn't really bother me as such, and it really was minimal, but just left me wondering whether this is something normal? I have read that these scopes are essentially almost colour free? Perhaps it is something more to do with the cheap BST EP I was using? I was also pleased to find that the objective didn't dew up quickly like I thought it might. I was probably out for 45 mins...and the objective stayed nice and clear. Before bringing the OTA back inside, I slipped it back inside the plastic bag it was shipped in, and draped a soft blanket over it to prevent moisture condensing on the surfaces and to let it warm back up slowly. Left the cap off overnight for everything to properly dry out in case any condensation did occur. My wife thinks I have gone crazy cradling the scope like a new baby! I am hoping to get a case sorted as soon as possible - to keep it safe as I carry it out. In terms of eyepieces, I have purchased only three so far. A Baader Mk IV 8-24 zoom, the 5mm BST Starguider, and I thought I would try a cheap 10mm Plossl (the Plossl is so cheap at around £20 that I thought I would just see what they are like). I thought the Baader zoom might be useful for me to get a feel for what magnifications I want before choosing decent fixed focal lengths EP's. Plus I thought the Baader Zoom might be quite good for lunar observation - which I see myself doing a lot of. I haven't tried the Plossl yet - but I am not sure I will get on with that style of EP - the eye relief seems very short. The BST seems pretty good though in terms of comfort. I tried adjusting the focus in and out whilst looking at a few bright stars. I had perfect concentric rings either side of focus. So hopefully that is a good sign?

It's been a few weeks since I last posted about the intended purchase. I have been extremely busy with work over the last couple of weeks. Plus I was really struggling to come to a decision over the 76DCU or 100DC, so as a result the scope I ordered stayed boxed up for a few weeks!!! After the discussions on here I thought I was going for the 100DC, then a week later my mind switched back to the 76DCU and I had discussed with the supplier the possibility of returning and swapping the scope for the cheaper option. But shortly after that, a lot of potential work came in, and at the last minute I decided to stick with the 100DC....

Yes that was the thought Jeremy. If the FC-100 with cheap EP's will still be better than 76DCU with Televue's...then get a small set of these BST eyepieces to keep me going - then keep a good eye out for decent used EP's along the way....or buy new decent ones as and when I feel more relaxed about finances. And also when I have had a chance to see how much I am using the scope and how I get on with certain mags/FOV etc.

Thanks for the suggestion KP82. I hadn't even looked at those EP's. That would bring the package price down to £3300. Sounds much better. So the question is now...would something like FC-100DC + BST Starguiders still give superior performance over the 76DCU + Televue EP's?

Haven't opened the box yet Jeremy! That was my thought a short while ago David - what could I do in the short term to keep the eyepiece costs down - then acquire decent used ones as and when they come along? The latest plan was to go with; 24mm Panoptic ~£306 4mm or 5mm Delite £243 11mm or 15mm Delite ~£243 But I think the above is keeping my EP selection fairly limited. And don't see much scope for trimming costs out short term.

Well I just opened the Scopetech Mount - and it does look very nice! Feels nice and rigid in the hand.

Another video from the same guy shows side-by-side images. But I suspect these are stacked images maybe - and therefore appear a little clearer than you would expect to see directly through the scope? If I did see images like either of these though (for 100 & 76) - I would be happy enough!

Yes I have ordered the FC-100. I had asked the supplier to hold it until I got back to them regarding eyepieces etc (as in I had stuff to add to order which could have been shipped together). But their shipping department is obviously super efficient - and the scope arrived yesterday! To be fair to them they have been really good and very tolerant to my many technical questions. However, I am scared to open it! After re-evaluating my eyepiece selection etc...the price has gone up a fair bit, so although I am desperate to have the better views of the larger scope - feeling a little nervous about committing to the full £4k the package is now looking to cost. 76DCU would be around £3k which seems a lot more in line with my original spending expectations. Over the long term £4k is not much - as Mike said, some people pay £1000+ per year for golf fees alone. But just wondering if I should have gone with the smaller for now with a view to upgrade a couple of years down the line? With two young kids, and a possibility of moving house in the next year, spending £4k on myself seems a little selfish. I did buy the other half a new laptop on the weekend though - perhaps could use that fact to soften the blow of the £4k spend??? Annoyingly I spotted a Pentax 10XW eyepiece on Astrobuysell that I just missed out on for £180. That could have helped get my eyepiece costs down a little. 🤦‍♂️

One thing I meant to ask the other day, when trying to determine what the views might be like for both the FC100DC and FC76DCU, I came across a couple of videos which seem to show views of Saturn through both scopes; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOHHUxZWT4U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A7MHrd5ppk The first video is using the FC-76DCU and live view of Saturn is shown from around 5:15 minutes into the video. Second video is using a FC-100DF, and live view of Saturn about 2:15 into the video. For those of you who have used both 76DCU and FC-100, is this a fair comparison of the difference in views between these scopes? With these videos, the FC-100DF does looks significantly better than the FC-76...but not sure if that is just because the 76DCU is being used on a day of worse seeing? And perhaps the 76DCU is being pushed a bit high on the magnification front?

Ok - that's interesting Jeremy. I perhaps thought that it would be common to try an lift these sort of set-ups out in one go. You are saying you wouldn't even lift the 76DCU out whilst mounted. Sad that I am, I have got the tripod from my old cheap 90's Tasco reflector out and loaded it up with some weight to approximate the weight of both scopes mounted on a tripod. Even with the approx. mounted weight of the 76DCU (around 9kg with tripod and mount), although it feels OK to carry about laterally on a level floor indoors, it is still weighty enough to make me feel that if I was to try and lift this up and over the door threshold, through the doors and down the two steps onto the patio (in the dark) - that would be a little nerve racking. Think the 100DC will be about 10kg with tripod and mount.

Since I am looking to have only one scope, interchangeability between scopes and mounts wasn't really a worry for me - hence I thought I could do away with the dovetail bar and just use the Tak clamp itself for de-mounting and balance adjustment. I was also originally thinking of keeping the scope and mount/tripod set-up at all times, and just lifting the entire set-up though our dining room doors onto the garden patio as and when necessary. However, with the FC100-DC costing £2k I am wondering if I should be thinking of actually carrying tripod and scope separately...especially as there are two steps down from the dining room door onto the patio outside (its about a 18" step down). Tripping on these steps whilst lifting the entire set-up would be devastating! May be best to make a nice wooden case for the OTA (to keep it safe and away from the kids!), and just keep the tripod and mount set-up and ready to accept the OTA as and when needed. If I do end up frequently carrying out in two loads - I am thinking a dovetail might be a safer bet, making it less likely that I ding the tube on the edges of the open Tak clamp...which is along the lines of your reason Jeremy. So I think a dovetail is probably a sensible choice for the little extra money and extra weight. John - don't put that doubt back in my head! From my thoughts immediately above about the potential risks of carrying the expensive 100DC OTA and tripod out in one go - I am already worrying again if the 76DCU would give me more confidence in handling and moving around as one complete unit. Jeremy - What I should have perhaps asked the other day...when not travelling, how much do you actually use your 76DCU compared to the FC-100? Do you always pick the FC-100 when at home?

Thankyou again for your responses over the weekend. Going to see what eyepieces I can find in stock today. Deadlake - just re-reading your comments above regarding maybe requiring a different mount for the 100DC at high powers. I guess this was part of the difficulty I was having between the choice of 76DCU & 100DC originally. I wondered if, in reality I would not be able to take advantage of the 'really high powers' that the 100DC can potentially offer on the lightweight Scopetech mount (I have heard 200x plus is fairly common). And therefore it may have been better to stick to the smaller 76DCU where I might be able to utilise the full possibilities of the scope in my desired mounting arrangement. Presumably, even if the mount doesn't work well with the super high powers, I guess generally I will see a significant improvement going with the 100DC over the 76DCU for the 'average' powers? I am guessing if I went with the 76DCU I would typically be observing in the range of up to 150x max, and with the 100DC maybe up to 200x max? And for a given magnification (e.g. 100x), I am hoping the 100DC will give a crisper and brighter image with more resolution. So FC100-DC still a better choice even for the lower 'typical' magnifications. I hope that my understanding is correct!!! On another matter, I was thinking of mounting a Tak Clamp directly onto the Scopetech Zero Mount (apparently you can do this). So I wouldn't have a dovetail bar and keep the weight down a little more. This would mean that I would be using the Takahashi Clamp to de-mount the scope and for adjusting balance etc. Do you think this is a bad idea? Would I be better to get a dovetail bar for balance adjustment? In this case I would then probably get and ADM clamp rather than using a single screw to hold the scope...I don't like the idea of a single screw point holding up such an expensive item.

Thanks everybody. Seems like the general view is I should ditch the Ortho eyepieces. I appreciate what you are saying Jeremy about a narrow field of view being irritating with an undriven mount being. I guess at higher mags, images will soon drift across the view. I was keen on the Televue 24mm Panoptic as the low power EP (can't remember exactly why that stood out as a good choice though). Unless there is an equally good alternative to the Panoptic, then the undercuts on that eyepiece will probably steer me towards the more expensive Baader diagonal I guess - which is unfortunate as would have liked to have saved the cash by getting the Tak diagonal. But it will drive me mad if the Panoptic becomes problematic in use. As for the high power eyepiece selection - not sure yet? Both the Morpheus and Pentax XW range look good to me. Maybe even TV Delites which maybe are a little lighter and more compact looking? Although FOV is slightly less on those. Will have to do some reading up on the suggestions you have all made. Also have to look at what is actually available at the moment - seems to be a lot of eyepieces out of stock. I may have to hold off buying the Solar wedge for now I think Stu. Spent quite a bit so far this weekend...and yet to tell the wife that I am after a new surfboard too!!!!

Jeremy - you say the 100DZ is on the heavy end. Do you find it still OK to use on the Scopetech Zero though? I guess the 100DC @2.8kg sits half way between the 76DCU (1.8kg) and 100DZ (3.8kg). So hopefully the 100DC will be OK on the Scopetech Zero if you find the 100DZ manageable on it.

Yeah that's kind of what I was thinking.