Tiny Clanger

Hi Katie and welcome !

I'm a quite new telescope user too : it was in the first lockdown when I bought it, and when I went looking for accessories every 'proper' astromomy equipment dealer seemed to be out of stock, so I managed to buy some stuff on amazon, mostly not from amazon, but small camera shops using them as a middleman. The first thing I bought was a cheap (£20 ish) skywatcher 17mm plossl eyepiece. I had read all the comments about the packaged eyepieces not being good ( same pair as yours) but wasn't sure if paying more would show me improvement, considering I had a cheap 'scope in a suburban back garden, and am far from a discerning observer ... I chose the 17mm because it was part way between the 10 and 25mm so wouldn't just be a duplicate if it didn't turn out to improve over what I had.

When it arrived, and I used it, I was hugely impressed, the improvement over the stock EPs was easy to see. I've since bought a couple of the highly recommended BSTs (which I've never ever seen om amazon, so I doubt you could spend your voucher on one ) but also a skywatcher 32mm plossl, again between £20-£25 . When I observe now, the 17mm skywatcher gets as much use as the two BSTs , I really like it. I've added 12.5mm and 32mm skywatcher plossls to my kit as well, both are OK and give me a good range.

A word of caution though :  plossl eyepieces at high magnifications ( low number mm) are harder to use, I'd not go below , say,  10mm.

Here's a link to the 17mm from the same vendor I got it from , for £21.95 including P&P 

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00CYHTQY8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I bought a cheshire collimator but to be honest, 9 times out of 10 I just use the dust cap with a hole in the middle that came with my 'scope instead, I find it easier to do a quick check with. Easy and free to bodge your own if not.

The next thing I found I really needed to make my 'scope use easier was a right angle erect image  finder (often shortened to RACI  ) , which was the cure for having to do annoying yoga poses to look along the red dot finder that came with my 'scope. I've just cheoked on amazon, and there don't seem to be any available there at the moment

If you go for some gloves , I'd suggest 'shooter's mitts' which I've used for years when outdoors taking photos. I found them to be excellent, mine are windblocker fleece and came from go outdoors angling dept years ago. Their huge advantage is the fingerless glove has an extra flap-over bit which turns it into a mitten, but velcro holds the flap back out of the way when fingertips need to be free. Plenty of them on offer on amazon for around £10 , e.g.

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/dp/B089WBVP42/ref=wl_mb_wl_huc_clickstream_2_dp?th=1&psc=1

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/TREKMATES-Womens-Youth-Fleece-Gloves/dp/B00OIVZBGK/ref=sr_1_58?dchild=1&keywords=shooters%2Bmit&qid=1605965095&s=clothing&sr=1-58&th=1&psc=1

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Jack-Pyke-Shooters-Mitts/dp/B01LNYUTL6/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=jack+pyke+shooters+mit&qid=1605966118&s=clothing&sr=1-5

I find I need the thumb of my dominant hand free too, but as fleece doesn't fray I've just butchered my mitt by snipping the top of the thumb off after unpicking  the thumb seam a bit, allowing me to use the unpicked thread to secure the top of the seam properly after surgery. One pair I bought had buttons and loops to hold the mitt bit back , which was useless, too fiddly to use with cold fingers , I cut the buttons off and sewed velcro on. They've been as good at the telescope as they have been out walking in the countryside .

Something else to maybe think about : a small toolbox or similar to hold your accessories in one place and make it easy to take them outside, keep them safe from any damp surfaces and find them in the dark .

Happy observing, and for the cloudy evenings happy shopping too

Heather

Looking at your daytime photo makes me wonder if internal reflections are degrading the image : have you considered flocking the inside of the telecope tube ? It's not expensive, FLO sell black sticky backed flock sheets for this purpose, plenty of how to vid.s for the process . It's on my to do list . A home made dew cap (like a camera lens hood) might cut out some stray light too.

Are you using a remote to release the camera shutter ? If not, try using the shutter delay to let any vibrations die down . Finally, I'm not familiar with your 'scope, but know that on the Celestron 114 eq (jones bird ) I inherited , the focus tube tends to creep under the weight of a DSLR body .

Only just spotted the 'clubs' tab and investigated it , but thought I'd join despite the lack of recent posts here.

Yep, that is very similar to what I saw, except for me the lower triangular patch appeared a little darker, but then I was using an orange filter. I couldn't see the Southern Polar Cap at all (filter or none), even when I had my DOH ! moment and began looking in the correct area , having  remembered the new mak does not invert the image N/S like the dob I've become accustomed to 🤡

On 11/11/2020 at 02:18, Atlas629 said:

A few years ago I learned the fate of the universe, and my exact place in it - hit me pretty hard. Anyone else share similar experiences?

On 11/11/2020 at 20:21, johninderby said:

Hmmmmmm..............🤔

This thread made me think of this. 😁

Me too 😀  In answer to the OP, yes, Zaphod Beeblebrox , President of the Galaxy had the exact same experience in the Total Perspective Vortex . In case you are unfamiliar with the sorely missed  philosophical colossus Douglas N Adams, here is the relevant passage :

I'll second all the above !

I bought a 150 heritage dobsonian in early summer, and have been learning with it that it's not just the telescope you need to know how to operate, you also have to learn how to see . Sounds stupid, but getting your eye in line, and at the right distance from the eyepiece , and then keeping both open whilst concentrating on the image from the 'scope ... it didn't come naturally to me.

Wanting to add a longer focal length 'scope specifically for observing planets and the Moon , I just bought a 127 skywatcher Mak. , and if I hadn't already had some experience with the dob, which has half the focal length, therefore half the magnification of the Mak. I suspect I'd have struggled to use it. The greater magnification means the Mak needs to be aimed with greater accuracy , Mars scuds across the field of view faster, and the focus is more finicky too.

Take your time, be patient, use the 25mm eyepiece , let the 'scope cool down for at least half an hour , try to use it outside. And remember you are peering up through a sea of air , conditions in the atmosphere are enormously , annoyingly limiting, but some time a good clear night will happen ...

Heather

I got the first chance to use my shiny new 127 mak this evening, clear sky from 6.45 pm until nearly 8pm when the clouds rolled in. The conditions were too poor for my 8mm EP to be useful, but the 12.5mm cheap plossl and an equally cheap orange filter and persistence got me some decent glimpses of the Red Planet.

Having written my notes up, and compared what I thought I saw with the mars mapper , I was doubting my eyes, but the three roughly triangular dark shapes I noted accord pretty well with the flipped image John posted . Wow, did I really just (intermittently) see traces of a dust storm on Mars ? !

Step by step instruction video here, it's a few years old, but will probably still be relevant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_KnCxm98eI

 Stellarium ( the downloaded program, I've not used the online version much, and doubt it has this facility anyway) has a dead handy feature , the oculars plugin. You can set your telescope focal length and the image orientation (reversed l/r or up/down or not)  to match whatever telescope you have , and add the parameters of your eyepieces , barlows and camera . The plugin provides quite a lot of standard ones, but you can easily delete any you don't need.

Then you can select any object, click the oculars tool bar, and stellarium will let you cycle through the telescope/s and other kit you have entered , showing you a circle corresponding to your chosen combination of kit's view. It can show you telrad circles too . Combined with the night mode I find this very helpful to have outside with me if I'm searching for something a bit elusive.

Here's a link to the relevant wiki page :

http://stellarium.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Oculars_plugin

Heather

 XKCD has wisdom to impart on the topic. The resistor code mnemonic seems particularly appropriate :

I very often look down rather than up:

Camels Ordinarily Sit Down Carefully , Perhaps Their Joints Creak. Possibly Early Oiling May Prevent Permanent Rust.

9 hours ago, ash73 said:

The correct mnemonic is MVEMCJSUNPE, because there are of course 11 planets!

Dwarf rabbits are still rabbits.

Which for some reason reminds me that I  once set a class of 8 year olds the task of writing their own mnemonic for the order of colours of the spectrum .

My favourite (it must be a good  mnemonic, 'cos I remember it after 30 years ) was :

'Rabbits of yesterday gave back inky vests.'

Not sure if that conceals a message about the illuminati though ...

7 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

Ah, ok, here it is in short (although topic by itself is rather large).

AzGti is as it name suggests a Alt Azimuth mount. Such mount can track object for longer periods of time but is not suitable for astrophotography because this sort of tracing creates field rotation - image slowly rotates on sensor and you get this sort of effect:

(These are actually star trails recorded from a fixed mounting - but effect is the same - due to not compensating for earth's rotation).

When you want to compensate for earth's rotation and do proper imaging - you use equatorial mount. Alt azimuth and equatorial mount are rather similar - in fact they are the same in construction with only one difference - where main axis is pointing. With Alt Az mount - it is pointing straight up, but with eq mount it needs to point to celestial pole. In fact - alt azimuth mount is equatorial mount if one is at the north pole and celestial equator is straight up

In any case - there is firmware for AzGTI that tells it that it is now in EQ mode (you can switch between two modes each time you connect to the mount) - but in order for it to work properly - you need to get a wedge.

For good tracking in EQ mode, you also need to have CW - luckily it is rather easy to do - it already has connection and you can DIY one or purchase Star Adventurer that can be screwed in with simple adaper (M8 to M12 I think). I think that EQ1/EQ2 counterweight bar fits without modifications, but I'm not sure.

You can use CW in AZ mode as well - it provides more balance and stability.

For guiding to work, you'll need guide scope, some sort of side by side arrangement, guide camera, and computer. There are stand alone guiders as well, but I think that one would need hand controller for AzGti in order to connect guider to ST4 port.

I'll be using Raspberry PI4 with IndigoSky server and my phone for portable setup.

Here is what that setup might look like (I've found this online to show what I mean, I'm actually going to use larger side by side saddle plate that I already own for my setup)

 

That's a really helpful summary for someone like me, who is thinking about buying a portable mount at some point in the future. Thank you.

Somewhere on another thread I measured the extended 'scopes ground to eyepiece height in answer to a similar beginner/ child 'scope query. I use my heritage 150 on a short sturdy 3 legged table I made using scrap wood and 30cm long tubular metal legs . It saves me hauling my low garden table , which is cast iron and weighs a lot, around my bumpy lawn.  When Jupiter and Saturn were low in the sky in the summer, and it was convenient for me as an adult to have the 'scope on a taller platform, I stood the scope on one of those portable workbenches , a cheap copy of a black & decker workmate. I find both solutions are plenty steady enough.

The heritage 150 is 750mm focal  length , so will give less magnification than a longer focal length 'scope with the same eyepiece, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, as it means your field of view is greater. It is therefore easier to find your targets and keep them in view.

I do wonder if the goto facility is all that much of an advantage in engaging children (or adults for that matter) compared with some time spent doing background research on astronomy so when you show your child something, you can explain why the star is that colour, what M31 actually is, what is the difference between stars and planets , why does the Moon (and Venus ) look different shapes, how come the Moon has those craters  ...

If the items within are OK, I doubt the damage to the packaging would get you any compensation.

If the contents were damaged, I know what I'd do to get redress under UK law if the sender didn't sort it out in a co-operative and timely fashion, but via the US postal service and then on by other carriers to the  UAE, sorry, I've no idea.

In general though, wherever you live, wherever the item originates, the delivery company is employed by the vendor, so even if the item proves to be fine, I'd have a conversation with the vendor, mentioning that whilst their careful packaging protected the item, their chosen delivery company did that damage somewhere along the line.

I've asked companies before I place my order with them if they intend to use a delivery co. I found to be spectacularly lackadaisical* in my area, and said if they do, I'll order elsewhere. Feedback to the vendor is the way to get better deliveries.

Heather

* That company was Yodel.

ERB's Mars books were my first encounter with sci fi, I still have my tattered paperback copy of 'Princess of Mars' (price : 2'6 ) The film made Deja Thoris a rather more modern princess than the book did, it was written in 1912, so no surprise really . I watched the film with trepidation, thinking the update might trample on my childhood joy for the book (which I dare not re read as an adult, some things are best left as happy, innocent memories ...) but it was good fun. I was impressed with the special effects which did a great job on the more alien looking Barsoomian inhabitants and creatures .

1 minute ago, Anthony1979 said:

Good arnt they

I confess to being tempted  , atho' I'd prefer just an astronaut or two without all the rest, I already have more than enough baubles for a ceiling scraping tree !

Google jitsu got me this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Valery-Madelyn-Christmas-Shatterproof-Decoration/dp/B086X3XYFC/ref=sr_1_195?dchild=1&keywords=Valery+Madelyn&qid=1605459992&sr=8-195

but I bet various garden centres with seasonal displays of festive shiny stuff will stock them too

Welcome , from a fellow lontime Nikon photographer  : I still have a battered F photomic hibernating in the cupboard and only just let go my darlroom kit . I am, however , restraining myself from even thinking about astro photography kit, I'm a simple observer.

I have noted though that Canon cameras are the general favourites for astro DSLRs , so be prepared to go to the dark side 😀

Heather

Skippyinspace , I think your post should be used a cautionary tale for beginners who hope that spending loads of cash will automatically make astronomy easy ...

Hope the 'read the flippin' manual' moment pays off , and your setup works with no glitches from now on .

Heather

Edited to add: I should say I'm a beginner myself, but of the low price/ low tech /much study variety

4 hours ago, Luke said:

Our old neighbours, who we really liked and who moved nearby, were into all kinds of little lights in their garden! My view is that it was their garden, they can do what they like with it.

True, but the problem is not what people do with their own property, but how what they do spills onto neighbouring properties, and affects their owner's ability to do what they like with their own space.

In that respect , careless light pollution is exactly like thoughtless noise pollution. I could easily listen to loud music outdoors by cranking up my hi fi output to the speakers and throwing the doors and windows open , but as a good neighbour, I use headphones. To do otherwise would be either the result of lack of awareness, disregard of other people's rights, or simple bloody mindedness.

We need education ,prompting increased awareness of light pollution and itsnegative effects (not just on a minority hobby, but on wildlife too) in the general population . Anyone got David Attenborough's  'phone number ?

Meanwhile, I just started reading 'The End of Night'   by Paul Bogard, which is an interesting book on just this subject. I don't recall where I saw it recommended , it may even have been a thread on here, in which case, thanks whoever suggested it.

Heather

Postie (in shorts despite the chilly rain) just handed me this little package

Thanks KP82 😀

Welcome Katie,

Well done for having by passed all the angst of deciding which 'scope to buy by getting one as a gift ! 😀

Is the tree an evergreen ?  If not as the leaves fall,  your view might get a tiny bit better ...

Heather

7 minutes ago, saac said:

Shame I wanted to get 6 of these beauties but the max they sell is a group of 5 .  Oh well.  

Jim

Yes, it's just despicable speciesism, six eyed sand spiders* are forced to buy two sets of 3 of these marvellous bargains to be fully equipped, , or a 4 and a 2, which means they will be unfairly financially disadvantaged compared with bees (5 eyes) .

*  Six eyed sand spiders afflicted with lisps are the world's most disadvantaged creatures .

Not something I've thought about for my kit, but if I did as well as photography kit ( expensive) and toolboxes (less so)  I might investigate fishing equipment, anglers seem to cart loads of stuff around.