Clifff

A followup after using the Baader Wedge with my ES 2X and a 2" ext tube in front of the wedge I reached focus on my 76DS no problem , no longer get a full disk but works fine.

Nice sharp images both visually and with my 174mm. Seeing was just ok.

Zero heating even after several hours . 

small sample.I guess you would call first light!

Stacked but not processed in Autostakkert

Thanks for all the comments ,

and no a 2X Focal extender will not get damaged if in the light path as i use it or a 4X powermate in front of my Combo Quark all the time. Whats the difference if i put the Hershel Wedge where the Quark is ?

Maybe I should have got a 1.25" now looking back but I thought a 2" is future proof . I did order the parts mentioned in the Baader manual  a t2 adapter and a 1.25" t2 Clicklock which will reduce the infocus needed won't have them for a couple weeks.

One of the guys on cloudy nights actually uses the same ES 2X Focal extender with his 2" APM Herschel wedge. 

Just a comment I don't see how glass could build up heat unless it was reflected in-between elements, the Front Objective is Glass doublet in my case, My 4X Powermate and ES2X are also 2" Glass no sign of damage anywhere after extended Ha imaging. . Maybe if Plastic parts where used in the focusser ?

I will update when I try a few things

Cliff

Been a while since we've had decent conditions here in Sydney,nice to see the Sun again.

Over 6months after ordering  I received my Baader herschel wedge impressive .

With either the original Tak accessories or my Clicklock holder on the scope I can just reach focus with the focuser all the way in but can't adjust through the focus point, Thought a barlow on the eyepiece might improve things no change. Yet to try a camera probably my 174mm. 

Tried with a 40mm Plossil and my Baader Zoom eyepieces.

Can I put a 2X extender before the wedge to fix backfocus/infocus.  I use a 2x or 4x with my combo quark .

Appreciate any ideas 

Cliff

On 15/10/2021 at 18:26, Nigella Bryant said:

I've removed the front glass from my zwo 178mm and it does help to get rid of the NR. Only found out by accident when I fitted a low profile nose piece and lost the glass, lol. Doing that and using a tilt plate has done the trick. Have not got a clue why, lol. 

Might try it thanks Nigella. Only have a 174MM was thinking of a 178mm , have a 178mc but not really Solar suitable.

Just following the NR issues, I get some with the ASI174mm and lots with the QHY163M , using the offset adapter that came with the Combo Quark it fixes most but not all of the NR but the fitting it not very stable and scary with the 163 hanging off the back.

Interesting that you say the Powermates can cause NR also. I use a TV4X or a ES2X 

Not sure how practical it is but removing the glass in front of the sensor would help alleviate the rings ?  Haven't tried it here just a thought.

Cliff

Looks pretty good to me, I've had rare days but if its not cloudy then the wind comes up. 

Thanks Luke, I'm so far really impressed by the Combo Quark I bought it used, I just thought it more versatile than a standard Quark with built in 4.3X and I have the Powermates for planetary.

I don't think I'd have enough light to do 23fps deepsky it is an older Panasonic sensor same as the ZWO1600MM. Also 8bit would be no good for deepsky I think. 

Going to buy a Tring adapter for the Quark and I hopefully will remove the vignetting also give a solid connection and some sought of screw on Tilt Adapter. Always something else !

Clear Skies

Thanks for all the positive comments Luke, Marvin ,Mark ; definitely not computer generated Marvin. 

Two seperate exposures one surface, one proms then stacked separately and combined in Photoshop , first time trying this idea. More work though.

Only had this Combo Quark about two weeks now i think, starting to understand it and finally, getting some decent results.

Only had a PST before and some white light with a 6"SCT.

I was surprised how well the QHY163M worked (more for deep sky), only the files are massive from the 16megapixel compared to the little 174MM , not able to use the whole sensor as I had bad vignetting something else to fix later. Also a much heavier camera but has cooling might help in the hot Australian Summer today already 32C

Clear Skies (looks like cloud here for a while)

Cliff

Is this the one you mean captured it this morning ?

Combo Quark, 4X Powermate, Tak 76DS, QHY163M

I finally got a little imaging done both in White Light using my 6"SCT with Baader Film and Ha with the Combo Quark,4X Powermate and Tak76DS.

Sunspot Group 2860.

Sunspots White Light .tiff

Sunspots.tiffProms 1-9-2021.tiff

Well today we had some Sun not great and lots of high thin cloud, enough to test the new setup with the two extensions, 4X Powermate with the Combo Quark, 1.25" prism diag. and an eyepiece.

No problem getting focus though a little shaky at f30 as I used a manual Vixen mount and a light tripod but could easily see a number of prominences and the present Sunspot area. 

Also bought a little solar finder , I did make one and it worked ok but this one has a vixen finder foot and is more solid. 

Now need a clear day to try imaging.

On 28/08/2021 at 19:14, vlaiv said:

I can't really tell what is what on your image above. Is there quark combo in above optical train?

Do you remove extensions when you put in diagonal?

I should have annotated the image it is from the scope end  a 35mm ext, 73mm ext , 4X Powermate , 40mm eyepiece also tried a ZWO174mm camera also ok.

What I was saying is there is very little difference in focus position when adding a diagonal to this setup .

No Quark in this setup as we have had almost sunny days lately. 

Ok I have a question now i have the Powermate at the end of the system , if I add a diagonal either a Tak 1.25" prism or the ES 2" there is only about 3mm difference in focus position and 6mm respectively compared to straight through ?

I know its only optics but usually a diagonal adds 100mm or so as noted in above message from vlaiv

I think I have had a 'Eureka' moment I was putting the Powermate or ES2X as the first item after the focuser and without a diagonal couldn't find any focus.

Now i have the Extension tubes both 35mm and 70mm first then the Powermate 4X and currently a 40mm Plosil.

No trouble focusing on my tree now with either 2X or 4X . So i probably need another 2" extension to use the Quark . A long system !

Getting closer I think.

12 hours ago, vlaiv said:

I'm slightly confused - you say ES diagonal? Is that 1.25" or 2" version?

I can't seem to find 1.25" version, and 2" version will not add 50mm. Shortest 2" diagonals add about 100-110mm of optical path.

173 - 31 = 142mm - that is longest optical path that will come to focus (racking out focuser just shortens that).

Let's say that

a) ES diagonal is 2" and has minimum optical path of 100mm

b) Powermate and ES Extender need 0mm optical path (they move focus point out the same amount as they are long so they don't change anything)

c) Combo Quark needs 67mm

100mm + 0mm + 67mm = 167mm, but you only have 142mm available (racking out focuser just shortens what you have available).

On the other hand:

Loosing diagonal would make this:

67mm + 63mm of focuser travel = 130mm still less than 142mm - you would not be able to reach focus in that configuration and would need some sort of extension as @michael.h.f.wilkinson pointed out.

Maybe best course of action would be to loose diagonal (at least for imaging) and use 30mm 2" extension tube in this configuration:

focuser -> click lock -> 2" 30mm extension -> Telecentric lens -> quark combo -> camera

For visual - get 1.25" diagonal instead and maybe ditch the click lock adapter and go with stock one. Most 1.25" have 70-80mm of optical path and then you'll have: 80mm + 67mm = 147mm.

Yes you are right it is the ES 2" diagonal so at least a 100mm not 50mm 

I have no trouble reaching focus though the focuser is nearly all the way in with the ES2X.

I would rather image without the diagonal so a 2" ext makes sense. (I have a 35mm and a 70mm 2" extension here)

The only really good 1.25" diagonal I have is the Tak but thats a prism not mirror not sure that is ok with solar ? I would guess not.

I have an old Meade 1.25" but not really that solid with the extra weight. 

Going with the 1.25" diagonal would mean I can't use the Powermate or ES 2X as they are both 2" unless I put it before the diagonal.

Thanks again for all the suggestions/ideas

Cliff

On 24/08/2021 at 21:32, vlaiv said:

That is a lot of elements and I think that you don't have enough inward focuser travel for all of that.

Loose diagonal as a first step and see if you can focus properly with x4 Powermate.

This is my setup : Still waiting for a clear day - typical except for one or two days its rained since I got the Combo Quark.

• Takahashi FC76DS 173mm Back Focus
• 63mm Focus Travel
• Baader Clicklock 31mm

• Combo Quark needs 67mm  rearward  or 99mm with SCT wedge.
•  
• ES Diagonal 50mm roughly added
•  
• ES 2X Extender ?
•  
• 4X Powermate ?

On 24/08/2021 at 22:53, michael.h.f.wilkinson said:

Indeed, with a star diagonal you are fine, but without you need a huge extension tube. Star diagonals have a long optical path, after all (Amici prisms are worse). If you place the diagonal in the powermate, rather than the reverse, you are in trouble. The 2x teleXtender (I have the Meade version) doesn't really have an issue like this.

Interesting the Explore Scientific 2X Extender I have seems to work similar to your Meade. 

Looks like i might need another extension tube to use the 4X Powermate. 

2 hours ago, vlaiv said:

It is derived from two things:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatial_cutoff_frequency

and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist–Shannon_sampling_theorem

In a nut shell - optical system acts as a low pass filter (blurs the image) and has a cutoff frequency, and sampling theorem states that you can perfectly reconstruct band limited signal if you sample it at twice highest frequency component.

 

Ok thanks, makes sense. 

I guess the next thing is to calculate or by trial an error the back focus with the 4X Powermate.

I have the ES 2" Diagonal (or without the diagonal) , Powermate 4X or ES2X , Combo Quark - eyepiece/camera.

17 hours ago, vlaiv said:

No, you should be fine with those eyepieces.

76mm f/7.5 has 570mm of focal length. With x4 powermate that will be 2280mm of effective FL. With 26mm EP you'll get ~ x87.7. That is well within range of 76mm scope.

* I thought that would not be a problem,  I did try my Baader IV Zoom and it seemed ok also with the ES2X 

17 hours ago, vlaiv said:

You need to check few things, in order to see what might be going on with x4 powermate:

1. Order of elements

You need to place telecentric lens before your quark, so order should be: Scope, some sort of IR/UV filter (you don't need that if you use front ERF) - it can be simple UV/IR cut filter or maybe ~30mm Ha filter for night use. Next is telecentric lens and then quark and eyepiece.

*Yes I have the correct sequence , tried both before and after the diagonal with the 4X. Have a UV/IR filter as the first element ERF

2. Optimum working distance for x4 powermate. Although telecentric lens should not vary magnification with distance - they sometimes do. Since you can have significant optical distance between powermate and eyepiece - magnification factor can change.

According to this chart, x4 powermate does not change significantly (up to x4.5 at 100mm separation where best position is around 25-30mm).

* Seems the Powermate is not so critical in placement as a Barlow. 

17 hours ago, vlaiv said:

3. Focus position of your telescope.

Barlow elements shift focus further out, but powermate does not. This means that you could be running out of backfocus with all those elements in optical train.

If you are using diagonal - try loosing that and seeing if you can reach focus that way. Also, where is best focus position that you can achieve? Is it at point where your focuser is fully racked in? If so - you might need a bit more "in travel" than you have with that scope.

* When I get some sunny skies raining here again. I'll try with out the diagonal. 

* With the 2X it is only about 10mm from being fully in for sharp focus. . I did a trial on a tree and it showed the 4X needed about 14mm extra out focus  though I didn't see a sharp focus when putting the focus 14mm back from where I had sharp focus with the 2X when replacing it with the 4X.

Yes, aperture mask will reduce visible detail, however, it works fine if you want to observe at low magnifications - like full disk viewing. If 40mm or 50mm dedicated solar scopes show nice image of full disk - same will be true for 40 or 50mm aperture mask and quark combo.

* May be reducing the aperture will reduce the intensity as at least with the 2X I can see little surface detail visually good sharp Proms though. Using the 174MM camera not a problem as I can control exposure easily.

17 hours ago, vlaiv said:

Critical sampling optimum F/ratio depends on wavelength and pixel size. In regular planetary imaging you have a choice since you are imaging whole range of wavelengths (between 400 and 700nm) - and you can aim for particular part of spectrum (I usually advise to go for 500nm in that case) - but here there is single wavelength - 656nm and you should aim for that.

Optimum F/ratio is F/17.9, that means you want F/6 scope and x3 telecentric lens for optimal working conditions with ASI174mm camera. F/15 that you used is not far from that, and for the time being - use that. Using x4 telecentric lens will give too high sampling rate and you'll be oversampling. Not sure if you want to do that (SNR loss due to oversampling).

* How did you calculate optimum F/ratio?. Sound like you are right with my current imaging it might be as good as I can get .

I have a FSQ106ED F5 scope but it has very limited focus travel and is a Petzval type , nervous about using that on Solar. Some say its ok others say you need a ERF which is really expensive. 

It would give around F20 with the 4X.

Really appreciate your suggestions. I can use the ES80ED F6 but the focuser assembly isn't the strongest. A lot of weight with the extenders etc.

The image is using a ZWO 174MM , a Tak F7.5 scope and a ES X2 .

Thanks for the ideas, yes maybe F7.5 with a 4X Powermate is pushing it ?  The eyepieces I tried are my Meade 26,32,40mm Plossils.

I have one of those Daystar offset filters for the front of a  8" SCT should work with my Vixen VMC200L F9 it fits.

Good idea using an Aperture Mask  .  Though I thought larger aperture more details?

Only had the Combo Quark a couple of days so lots to try.

After a lot of reading and a Combo Quark came up used so I took the plunge and got it along with a Aperture filter for a 8"SCT

Only tried it on a Tak 76mm F7.5 and a ES80ED F6 refractor but seems a ES X2 works fine but can't find focus on the Sun with the 4X Powermate

The Powermate works fine looking at a tree and appears to only have about 13mm extra out focus compared to the 2X but on the Sun no go.

Could this be just the seeing or something else.?

I was impressed by the detail I get with a 2X focal extender but the 4X should be way better. Only had a Coronado PST previously.

Appreciate any ideas , yet to try it on a reflector style scope.

Cliff

20 hours ago, Steve Clay said:

I use the same filter with a Chromosphere and its fine. I've used it with an Ed72 and Ed80 on a solarquest no issues at all.  Also used the 35nm ha and can see no visible difference except the price.

Steve

Thanks Steve wasn't sure if the ZWO stuff was up to the same standard as the others, ok on the 35nm not making a lot of difference.

Hopefully have the Quark here next week.

Cliff

Hope to soon have a Quark Combo and see that a UV/IR filter is recommended before the quark or a 35nm HA . I have a ZWO UV/IR but i see most are using Baader or Astronomic , Are the ZWO filters ok for Solar ?

Thanks

Cliff

Wow, I just bought a Combo Quark and 4X Powermate for its versatility. Also have a 2X ES Focal Extender I think is Telecentric also.

If I can get anything like this i will be over the Moon  had a PST previously .

Did you use a diagonal , how much backfocus did you need ? Extension tubes?

I also have a ES80ED ?

Appreciate any ideas , suggestions 

Cliff