jonathan

My advice: just use the scope on a clear night and see how it looks to your eyes.

That foil-effect sheet looks just like the car windscreen frost protectors, very cheaply bought from various places.

Quite frankly I've never had an evening where my 8SE front corrector plate dewed up completely before it became impossible to see through the eyepiece, that's with AstroZap heater tapes on both and a dew shield.  If the dew gets that bad then it's probably time to call it a night as your breath or the heat from your face will likely fog up the eyepiece before you get a chance to look through it properly.  Unless you can also protect your finder, that will likely be the first to go (I have a tape on mine, need to make a mini dew shield for it soon; the red dot finder is probably a lost cause though).

I flocked the inside of my tube to improve the contrast but thinking about it now it could actually help with dew as well, if insulation helps.  Thing is though that dew occurs mainly on the outside surfaces, that's what I thought the main heater tape and dew shield were there to protect.

I recommend a 4-channel dew heater controller, I use the HitechAstro one which includes two 12v power sockets as well, means I only need one plug going to the battery.  Don't ask me what power settings are best as I'm still trying to work that out myself, I usually just stick them in the middle and hope for the best!  I've heard that too much heat creates thermals which ruins the view.

I have borrowed a Skywatcher SynScan v3 handset to try it out with my SynTrek NEQ6 Pro mount.  After buying the cable I plugged it in and it comes on fine as usual, warning about the sun, enter the location etc, 1 star alignment (just for test purposes), "Alignment Successful".  I then get to the normal menus where I can choose a target, I choose something, e.g. the moon, Enter, it shows the location, Enter, it asks if I want to goto target?, Enter, then it displays what look like more coordinates (are these the current mount 'pointing at' coordinates?) but it doesn't slew, it stops tracking (I can tell by the sound the mount makes when it's tracking normally), nothing.  At this point I would expect the mount to be slewing but it isn't and I can't figure out why.  The handset drives the mount perfectly well during alignment.  Any ideas?

It looks like the handset crashes as I can't Esc back out of it, none of the buttons do anything and it doesn't dim the display or buttons after a while as I expect it normally would.  I'm hesitant to upgrade the firmware as it doesn't belong to me, are they easy things to brick during firmware updating?  I should have the correct RS232 cable for computer connection.

Just playing devil's advocate...  with the current boom in interest in astronomy and rush on telescopes, I think it's fair to say a percentage of those will find their way onto the second hand market as some find their purchases a bit beyond their level, or not being used as often as they thought.  Might be worth being patient if you want to pick up a nearly new scope at a bargain price.

As for size, from experience and the old addage I can say that there's certainly an aspect of diminishing returns with astronomy equipment where size and quality are concerned, 8" is a good size (😏) and should serve well, larger scopes have their uses but for visual I don't think the relatively small gains are usually worth the extra money or hassle.  If you want to go big, then start big and stay there, but don't buy 8" and then think that 12" is going to be massively better because in my experience it just isn't, plus a 12" Dob is like the size of a man and awkward to handle for one person.

Last night I used a Neutral Density (or Moon) filter on Mars, it reduced the glare just enough to enable some decent surface detail to be seen.  I haven't tried my 150P on Mars yet but I intend to before it zooms away too far, but right now the brightness will wash out some of the detail.  You could even try keeping the main end cap on the telescope and just open the small cap (if your telescope has this option), this should reduce the brightness quite a bit but higher magnifications might not be usable.  Sometimes better detail can be seen on a smaller disc, you just need to find the best balance of size vs sharpness.  You may even find that you get better visual views as Mars dims over the next few weeks, though it won't look as big in the eyepiece.

On 05/10/2020 at 21:07, jonathan said:

The ultimate test would surely be to have my 8SE setup right next to the 12" SCT (which is in the local 'dark skies' forest) and then dance between them viewing Mars, I expect the 12" would still give a fraction better detail

I managed to do this last night.  As it happened I think on the night my 8SE outperformed the 12" Meade quite convincingly, certainly in terms of inch for inch.

Last night's Mars surface detail wasn't all that interesting anyway, it was just a dark band with a slight bulge in the middle, though I didn't get to spend a lot of quality time observing it.

If you want to have just three trips or so out carring stuff and don't want to have to faff about with goto or other gizmos that could go wrong then I think there are three choices:

Dob, though I might stick to 150 aperture, 200 is getting a bit weighty if you're not keen on carrying; you'd likely need one trip for the base, one trip for the scope, and another for eyepieces etc (if you can fit them all in a single case).

EQ; you could quickly get the hang on plonking the tripod down with the N leg pointing to Polaris, no real need for detailed alignment if you're just doing visual or very short exposure photos at the eyepiece.  With an EQ3-2 you could easily use a 150P reflector or a 102mm refractor, and it should come in around your budget.  Add a single axis motor drive for basic tracking.  If you went for a 4" or maybe 6" SCT you might even find it easy enough to handle already mounted, saving setup time, though I'm not sure if 6" would be too much for an EQ3-2.

Alt-Az; I've never used an alt-az manual mount but from what I can gather there's zero alignment required, just put it down anywhere you like and away you go.  You may still need a counterweight, not sure, but otherwise probably similar number of trips to an EQ mount, maybe less if you can handle the scope already mounted to the tripod.  I don't know if there will be motorised tracking available on this kind of mount, so no different from a regular camera tripod in terms of imaging.

Personally I think the 150P reflector is a very good balance between potential and ease of handling.

Finding interesting targets shouldn't be a chore if you have the correct guide; I found Turn Left at Orion to be a decent enough starter, but their selection of targets was not the most inspiring for me after a while.  Take a look at the excellent Moore Winter Marathon, this forms the backbone for most of my winter observing sessions, I supplement this with a Planisphere, the current year's Stargazing Month-by-Month Guide to the Night Sky (currently available in The Works) and An Illustrated Guide to Astronomical Wonders, though this last one is a bit technical and can be a tricky one to use out in the field, I use it mostly as inspiration for things to look at by season and constellation.

I have the NEQ6 Pro, it's a beast and rock steady with my 8SE on, I only use it for visual but I've read that it's good for imaging too.  What were you thinking about mounting, and what's your primary intended purpose (imaging / visual)?

If wind or vibration are causing you problems then perhaps a tripod upgrade would help - the tripod with 2" thick steel legs that comes with the NEQ6 Pro is available separately but you'll need an adaptor to use it with the HEQ5 Pro.

+1 for the flocking, I did mainly opposite the focuser and around the edge of the secondary (the thick glass edge).  You could of course just flock all of the inside but I didn't want to go that far and have to bother removing the spider, but as you might have the spider out anyway...  You could also attempt the inside of the focuser tube, just make sure it's not going to be in the way of any moving parts.  Do plenty of dry test fitting.

I used a vacuum cleaner with curtain attachment to gently pre-remove any loose hairs from the flocking sheet before fitting, though I'm not sure this would be strictly necessary if buying the proper astronomy stuff.

You might want to get a dew shield too, or make one from some thin camping or yoga mat.

I think the black screws around the edge of the base will be holding the rear cell and mirror in place, you shouldn't need to remove those to collimate.  Shine a torch down the tube and check if the mirror is clean. 

+1 for having a Baader 8 - 24 zoom.  Not sure why but the 8mm end is usable in my 8SE whereas none of my fixed eyepieces below 14mm work (same night, seconds apart).  It may be that there are X-Cel LX (or other) eyepieces that work and I just haven't tried them, but my X-Cel LX 5mm and X-Cel 10mm just don't work with my 8SE.  I need to try using the matching Baader barlow at 12 - 14mm settings to see if that works too.  Quite frankly, with experience of my current eyepieces I wouldn't spend money on a fixed eyepiece to try and match a zoom setting that worked as I don't have the confidence that it wouldn't be a waste of money for me on my 8SE, my eyepieces work fine in f5 scopes but it seems an f10 SCT can be more picky when it comes to high magnification.  If the zoom gives great views then why spend money anything else?

+1 for a solar finder and zoom eyepiece, I have the LS60 PT with Sol Searcher and Baader Planetarium Zoom 8 - 24, they work very well together.  The Baader Planetarium Zoom is an excellent eyepiece for any occasion, I've recently discovered it to be brilliant for viewing Mars with my 8SE.

When trying to line up with the sun I watch the shadows cast down the tube of the scope, they should disappear when aligned (i.e. you shouldn't be able to make them out).  It goes without saying that you shouldn't be looking down the scope length at the sun!

I can also recommend some sort of floppy hat to shade your eyes from the sun, it makes looking in the eyepiece a lot easier.  There are shields available too but I never bothered with them.

I tried taking photos with my DSLR but just got a big magenta disc, I think a dedicated camera will definitely be the way to go.  DSLRs probably work fine for white light solar filters on a regular scope.

When looking at tripods I think you'll find a heavy video tripod works reasonably well (it will be a bit finnicky keeping the sun in view, in my experience even with a beefy camera tripod they tend to sag a little with a scope on), but if you wanted tracking of any kind then look to either a dedicated solar tracking mount or an EQ3-2 with RA motor drive.  I can plonk my CG-4 down vaguely polar aligned (N leg pointing North) and it'll track all day.

Recently I've had the time to spend getting to know my 8SE better, cleaning and maintaining it, I also flocked the inside of the OTA.  I compared the views of Mars through this and the local society's 12" Meade SCT... have to say the difference was marginal, perhaps a tad better detail through the 12" but in my mind the views were about the same, and seeing conditions could have been a factor (different location).  The ultimate test would surely be to have my 8SE setup right next to the 12" SCT (which is in the local 'dark skies' forest) and then dance between them viewing Mars, I expect the 12" would still give a fraction better detail but the physical difference between these two scopes and the challenges that a 12" SCT presents (not to mention the cost) for such a small improvement really wouldn't be worth it for me. 

This is something I'd been pondering recently myself - would a bigger SCT improve my views?  Of course, but not by much, and it might kill my back in the process.  The price of a 9.25" SCT also seems like it wouldn't be worth the money for what will surely be a very tiny improvement.  Like you, I think I'm now getting the best out of my equipment so the idea of upgrading has lost it's appeal for now.

Why is it always cloudy for these nice events? 

I was using both the Baader Zoom and the X-Cel 10mm last night, so same seeing conditions within the space of the time it took to change eyepieces.  My X-Cel is not an LX, it's one of the older range and was always difficult to use with the 8SE from new (both the eyepiece and scope), I just put it down to requiring very good seeing conditions.  By no means would I say the old X-Cel was anything like kit 10mm eyepieces, it looks and feels really nice, a large piece of glass at the eye and straight fixed rubber eye relief, the glass looks the same as my X-Cel LX 5mm.

5 hours ago, AstroTim said:

The 9mm X-Cel is my most used eyepiece with my C8 (not that I have many to choose from) and I am able to achieve a good focus.

I wonder if the C8 is slightly different to the 8SE somehow, or perhaps 10mm is just not a sweet spot for an 8" SCT (maybe why they ditched it?)

To be honest I've been slightly underwhealmed by the X-Cel and LX range in recent times, they only seem to work well in my f5 150P reflector.  Who can say - local conditions, my particular scopes, my eyes...

I think which light pollution filter you go for will depend on what kind of light pollution is predominant in your local area, mainly what type of street lamps and security lights are the most common.  Sodium lights (orange) will require a different filter compared to LED (cool white) lights, and there are other options such as perhaps a Neodynium filter which may or may not help to darken the background sky for you.  I'm sure there must be others in your area who have these answers, or an astronomy society in the area you could ask.

There are quite a few options for light pollution filters, just one could make a huge difference to your experience so I'd say it's well worth looking into that as your first purchase if you intend to observe from within the light polluted area. 

Don't give up on your 6mm eyepiece though, it could come into it's own if you find the right time and place, perhaps under darker skies away from the city.

13 hours ago, John said:

General rule is not to shine a torch on your optics !

 

Oh come now, if ever there was a time and a place for being a bit OCD about things, telescope optics surely are it.  Just don't touch the mirror surface ten times before putting it back in.

I was inspired to sketch for the first time last night too, although I just grabbed a pad and a pencil, I might try colour next time.  When comparing my effort and what I remember seeing with maps and images from last night it all starts to make more sense.  I couldn't really make out anything below the main central belt, very indistinct, except for a few fleeting glimpses of a lighter area (Hellas).

I hastily drew around a 2p coin to make the circles, about 25mm across for reference.  As it turned out I didn't use the second circle on this occasion, just did it in case I messed up the first.

This was through my 8SE with 8mm eyepiece.

Thank you for posting this, I wanted to compare my sketch with someone's image from last night.  Obviously my view would be inverted left-to-right and top-to-bottom, I can pretty much see the same features.

Last night I was enjoying observing Mars and discovered something interesting...  My 8SE isn't known for liking my higher power eyepieces, my Celestron X-Cel 10mm rarely is usable (just can't focus, even on bright objects), yet I'd read that the Baader Zoom is excellent with the 8SE so I tried it, and it was indeed excellent.  I went to attemp to zoom up a bit but found it was already at the maximum 8mm stop. 

So what's going on here?  Is it that the zoom eyepiece is a 'slow' eyepiece due to the size and amount of glass it has in it, and thus it matches the 'slow' f10 of the 8SE?  Or is it a quality thing - the Baader clearly outmatches the X-Cel eyepiece, but I thought that eyepiece quality wasn't such an issue with the 8SE.  But then I can never use my 5mm or 3.5mm in the 8SE and those are decent eyepieces.

I was out last night with a cracking view of Mars through my recently collimated, cleaned, and flocked 8SE, even did a little sketch, but that little bit I read in Astronomy Now about trying some Wratten coloured filters niggled at me... could I see even more detail / contrast?  Can my old faithful 8SE be made even better?  So here I am in this thread, with a Baader 1.25" Contrast Booster and a 2" Baader Neodynium Filter in my FLO basket (the 2" Neodynium can sit on my diagonal, indeed I might just leave it there all of the time if it helps on everything).

My question really, if there is an answer, is will these two filters, either individually or stacked (in the correct order - will it matter if one is on my diagonal and the other on the eyepiece?) make a worthwhile difference in my 8SE?  Mars was shining so brightly last night that I started using my moon filter on it to cut down the dazzle, it helped and seemed to 'enable' more detail, much like it does for the moon but to a lesser degree.  I'm certainly keen to spend the money if it will help when viewing the bright and detailed planets, nebula, and other things.

PS FWIW I've recently viewed Mars through a 12" SCT with 12mm eyepiece, to me the views I got last night were the same through my 8SE with Baader Zoom Eyepiece (at 8mm) or possibly slightly better (seeing conditions may have affected this, very difficult to tell).  It's interesting to note that my Celestron X-Cel 10mm wouldn't touch Mars last night, just couldn't focus, so +1 for the Baader Zoom Eyepiece when used with the 8SE.  The main thing with that 12" SCT is that the optical surfaces are filthy, it needs a serious clean but it's not mine to clean, I expect once it's clean it should be able to outperform my 8SE on a similar target and seeing conditions.

19 minutes ago, DaveL59 said:

I bought these back in 2019
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01MS5L3EG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Still working and haven't needed to replace the bulbs as yet. I set it all up inside a cardboard box and close that before powering up specifically so you can't look directly at the UV source and damage your eyesight. I generally run the max duration on the timer and repeat a few times.

Very interesting!  I never knew such a thing existed.  So you run these for two or three hours at your eyepieces in the box, do you point the glass surfaces at the lights or just lay them flat?  I suppose one could put tin foil inside the box to get the maximum effect.

Inability to focus means either poor seeing conditions or collimation problems, I had this recently after I'd taken out the corrector plate of my 8SE to clean the inside surface.  It might be worth looking at the corrector plate to see if there's any visible dust or misting on the inside of the front glass, basically you should hardly be able to see the glass as you look down to the primary mirror.

The 8SE usually tops out for me at some point before my 10mm eyepiece due to seeing conditions (I am under Bortle 4 skies), on a very rare excellent seeing night I can use the 10mm to gain a sharp image on planets.  Recently I've had the chance to observe Mars in a 12" SCT and the best views of Mars in that were through a 12mm plossl eyepiece, I think that speaks volumes about SCTs in general and where you should be aiming your expectations and eyepiece budget (for planetary).  Admittedly I was a little disappointed that I couldn't push it to a 9mm, though the primary mirror and corrector plate were pretty filthy so that may have contributed somewhat.

To get around this there's really only one way to go - make sure you're out there every night that looks clear and good, and see what it's actually like through the scope.  The SCT is very sensitive to seeing conditions, but less bothered by the quality of the eyepieces used, plossl's are probably perfectly fine for most situations. 

One thing I tend to do is look to the horizon just as the sun is setting, if the atmosphere looks a bit hazy or thick then you can expect dew and mediocre seeing conditions, if it's perfectly clear all the way to the horizon then it should be a good night.

I use my hand out of the window.  I'll get me coat.  🌲🍃

I see those super-bright LED torches now include a UV mode (there's a separate UV LED), they say a wavelength of 395nm (probably taken from the LED spec sheet so could be accurate).  Any idea if this sort of UV is useful on glass surfaces affected by fungus?  If so, what kind of exposure would be required?  I suppose the torches should last a good few hours on a single battery charge.  Also, I'm sceptical on the safety of UV torches being waved about generally, if they're harmful to eyes and skin then surely they wouldn't be allowed to be sold in European countries, but if they're not harmful then I'm wondering if they're too weak to be effective against fungus.

I probably shouldn't be looking at this thread....  *scope and observing opportunity envy ahoy*