oymd

I keep reading every now and then that a specific camera has this advantage of ZERO amp glow, or forum members concerned about the amount of amp glow in specific camera models they are researching for their next purchase etc....even camera manufacturers advertise on their spec sheets that a certain new sensor has ZERO amp glow etc?

I'd like anyone to explain to me the benefit of that? What is the point, really?

As an example, my 294MC Pro has obvious amp glow on exposures at and above 5 minutes and -5C. The glow is exclusively at the edge of the frame.

It has ZERO effects on my imaging experience, and calibrates out completely with some darks. And we all know that we take darks just ONCE, or maybe yearly for the fastidious.

Similarly, a 2600MC Pro or 533MC Pro has ZERO amp glow, but almost everyone using those cameras will still take some darks to make sure they have well calibrated images, and make sure they have got rid of any hot/cold pixels etc. Some might say that they do not take darks with those cameras at all, but surely, if one would be aiming for an APOD or AB's IOTD, they most certainly will take darks, even with the IMX571.

So, what is the point of LACK AMP GLOW in the first place. Why is it even an issue that keeps being mentioned?

Full well depth, QE, Dynamic Range, sensitivity, cooling etc...all those parameters make a real difference, but amp glow, I find it strange that its even mentioned.

To my mind, its comparable to that pesky dust particle stuck on your filter, that will completely calibrated out with your flats?

To summarise, under what condition would AMP GLOW be detrimental to a final image?

New Mono CMOS cameras are CONSIDERABLY more expensive than their OSC counterparts.

On top of that you need a filter wheel and SEVEN filters. 

I would say that a mono setup can easily amount to DOUBLE the price of a similar OSC setup, if not more.

Morning everyone

Does anyone have any information on Optolong's 3nm dual band OSC new filter?

Its supposed to be called the L-uLtimate filter?

I am considering buying the L-eXtreme, but I watched a video yesterday by VISIBLE DARK on YouTube reviewing this new filter and comparing it to the L-eXtreme?

Also, CUIV THE LAZY GEEK, released a video a couple of days ago regarding a similar new dual band OSC filter by Antlia, called the Golden Filter. That one is a 5nm bandpass.

The L-eXtreme is 7nm in both bandpasses.

Does anyone have idea on availability and pricing?

4 hours ago, daz said:

I would suggest:

• DynamicCrop
• MureDenoise
• ChannelCombination
• PCC
• ...

DBE on the separate channels is essentially what happens with DBE anyway, so you may as well combine beforehand. There are discussions about PCC before DBE or after - technically PCC does not introduce gradient so it should not make a difference. I have tried both ways and can't  tell if there is any difference between either way!

Remember that if you are using binned colour and unbinned luminance, you'll need to get WBPP to align based on the post-keywords, not on a on a global reference. If not, then PI will resize and resample the colour images based on the luminance reference. Then things like MureDenoise won't work...

 

It's a great tool now - means you can pre-process multi-night data sets easily!!

 

Many thanks

I have never heard or seen any prior reference to Mure Denoise before?

Where is that? Cannot see it in the processes?

For denoise I initially used MLT with an inverted linear mask when I started using PI last tear. 
 

Recently I have moved to the EZ Processing suite; EZ Denoise. 
 

Is Mure Denoise superior?

Many thanks

Ossi

4 hours ago, assouptro said:

sorry for the delay in my response

it’s my wedding anniversary!
 

I will try and dig out some files to give you some examples. 

I was happy when I first used them and I think the ha and sii were halo free but it was my first narrowband imaging rig post dslr so the difference was amazing to me!

I didn’t use them long before I swapped the Oiii, (I saw an astrodon oiii 5nm for £250) and I continued with the Altair ha and sii and astrodon oiii for a few months before I saw a full set of astrodons including rgb for £900 so I swapped the lot 

I hope that helps? 
 

Bryan 

Edit*
here is a quick image taken near midsummer from a campsite near Kielder a couple of nights worth, but never dark 

atik 460

ts65quad

Many thanks for your reply!

that’s very helpful. 
and

CONGRATS OF COURSE!!
 

Sorry, last question. Moving to Astrodon, was it night and day?

Many thanks for your reply!

that’s very helpful. 
and

CONGRATS OF COURSE!!

13 minutes ago, assouptro said:

I have a set of Altair Astro premium 6.5nm 1.25” filters and I suffered from halos but mainly on Oiii which prompted me to upgrade to astrodon filters (only 1.25” second hand) 

Cheers 

Bryan 

Excellent! Finally someone out there who uses/used these filters!

So, overall, are you happy with the filters?

From my research, I think that almost ALL O3 filters suffer most from halos, except for the Astrodons and Chroma. 
 

Were you satisfied with the Halpha and S2 6.5nm filters?

3 hours ago, newbie alert said:

Yeah, just looked them up..£475 a set...

Thst would set alarm bells off in my head

Yes. But the new Baaders are just £125 more for the set!?

So, obviously not that cheap?

Wish someone who has actually used them pick up on this thread and provide some feedback. 
 

I doubt they would be rubbish compared to Optolong/ZWO and similar cheap NB filter offerings. 
 

I generally have had god experience with Altair products. 

18 minutes ago, newbie alert said:

Antlia look like they're better than most but without the price tag of Astrodon and chroma .. worth a thought 

Just did a quick search on Antlia. 
 I could only find them on RVO. 
The 2” are all 3nm Pro series. 
The three filters are £1374!!

Thats an entirely different price bracket!

Evening everyone

I’m slowly assimilating my future MONO setup  

I’m planning on getting 2” LRGB and NB filters, even though the plan, for now, will be an APC-S sized mono sensor.

For filters, my eye is on Baader’s new CMOS optimised filters, but I’ve read some negative comments with regards to halos on CNs. I’m looking at the NON F2 filters, as my scope is an Esprit 100ED f/5.5.

I realise that short of Chroma and Astrodons, all filters will have issues.

The Baaders are not CHEAP. £580 for the 6.5nm set and £915 for the 3.5nm set.

So, I’m thinking of getting the Altair Astro NB premium set. They are 2”, 6.5nm and £475.

I’ve seen ZERO reviews or feedback on the internet regarding their performance or quality?

I tend to like Altair’s products, and anything I’ve bought or used from Altair has always been QUALITY.

Whats the word on these filters?

Would be immense if someone can give me some feedback on them?

Many thanks

1 hour ago, Adreneline said:

Personally I think it is more than "alright" - I think it is really very good.

I am really interested to see what can be achieved with the L-Enhance and 294MC as I have the 294 and so far have only used it in a very limited sense for RGB.

One comment I would make (and this is purely a personal thing) is that on my screen there is a bit of a magenta cast to the colour which can be removed by inverting and removing green.

I quite understand some people like to see magenta in an image - that's the great thing about NB imaging - lots of different interpretations.

Thanks for sharing.

Adrian

Rosette_SHO.tif 26.7 MB · 2 downloads

and here is the script applied:

SCRIPT ---> UTILITIES ---> CORRECTMAGENTASTARS

42 minutes ago, Coco said:

Ive been out of the imaging scene for five years and my goodness astro kit has come on .  Great image!

1 hour ago, Adreneline said:

Personally I think it is more than "alright" - I think it is really very good.

I am really interested to see what can be achieved with the L-Enhance and 294MC as I have the 294 and so far have only used it in a very limited sense for RGB.

One comment I would make (and this is purely a personal thing) is that on my screen there is a bit of a magenta cast to the colour which can be removed by inverting and removing green.

I quite understand some people like to see magenta in an image - that's the great thing about NB imaging - lots of different interpretations.

Thanks for sharing.

Adrian

Rosette_SHO.tif 26.7 MB · 1 download

Many thanks!

Glad you like it!!

Yes, I know the trick. Invert, do SCNR Green, Invert back.

PixInsight now has a process that does it in one click: SCRIPT ---> UTILITIES ---> CORRECTMAGENTASTARS

Hi everyone

Its a full moon these nights, but yesterday I had the first clear night in almost a week, sort of.

I had a few hours where the clouds broke, so thought I would give the L-eNhance a go at the full moon.

I processed this with the fake Hubble palette.

WO Star 71 5 element apo - ASI294MC Pro - LeNhance - 44 180s subs (2 hours) - Ds - Fs & DFs.

Obviously will need much more integration time to control the noise better, but I guess its alright?

Ossi

Stunning!!

Exceptional detail!!

39 minutes ago, scotty38 said:

Apologies if I misunderstand the intent of your post but I assume you realise that you don't have to take the separate channel outputs, you can just take the RGB as normal, or indeed both as required?

yes, of course.

But I wanted to try working on the separate channels, as my latest M33 project has tons of LP, and working on separate RGB channels might help me process better

7 hours ago, tooth_dr said:

Did you buy an alternative of the OSC from QHY?  

No, it just kind of made me pause and think about it a little more.

Considering its a big investment, I've decided to save a bit more and get the Mono version at some point.

I have not seen or read about any issues with the 2600MM version. 

I have been using PI for the past year, and have been processing my OSC data from my ZWO ASI294MC Pro.

I have NEVER processed Mono data before, meaning that I have never worked with R,G & B separate channels before.

With the new WBPP 2.2 which has this new option of Debayer RGB Separation, can some one please give me a broadline how to process my data moving forward?

With my current processing work flow, after the regular WBPP, I get a MASTER RGB file.

I do  Dynamic crop, DBE, PCC, EX Denoise, a tiny bit of Arcsinhstretch followed by the Histogram stretch.  On the NON Linear image, I usually then do Starnet, and work with the starless image: Curves and colour saturation, and possibly some HDRMLT and TGV denoise.

Deconvolution is according to the target.

With the NEW WBPP2.2, I now have 3 separate channel Masters.

Do I follow the same processing workflow on the separate R,G & B Masters? Do I do my regular Dynamic crop, DBE, PCC, EX Denoise, a tiny bit of Arcsinhstretch followed by the Histogram stretch on EACH Master separately?

If so, at what stage do I combine them in RGB combination? When they are in LINEAR or NON LINEAR stage?

Many thanks

Ossi

On 05/11/2021 at 21:54, david_taurus83 said:

Wow. £2k worth of camera and this is supposedly a fairly common issue? Anybody on here had this yet?

 

It’s actually an increasingly common issue with the Color version of this ZWO camera. 
 

There are two very long threads regarding this issue on CNs. 
 

Maybe the batch we got here in the UK has less of an issue? Not sure. 
 

This is the main reason I’ve been holding off buying this camera, as the reviews and results overall are very positive. 
 

Don’t quote me on this, as I’m not sure, but I think that the QHY, Altair and other versions do not suffer of this silicon/oil leak. 
 

I believe also that the ZWO MONO version does not have this issue. 

6 hours ago, vlaiv said:

Probably because they have new version:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/uv-ir-filters/baader-cmos-optimised-uvir-cut-and-l-filter.html

But, why do you need 2" version?

1.25" is sufficient for 23mm sensor diagonal.

Also, no need to break the bank - maybe ZWO 1.25" will suffice:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/uv-ir-filters/zwo-1-25inch-iruv-cut-filter.html

I’ve decided to only buy 2” filters. 

I already have a 2” RGB set, 2” ha and o3. 
 

I decided to go 2” sometime ago, so as to not worry about any future mono camera purchase. 

1 hour ago, Budgie1 said:

It doesn't help with the colour issue but; when you say you didn't use any filters, does that include a UV/IR cut filter?

The ASI294MC doesn't have a UV/IR cut sensor glass, so if I'm not using any other filters I always have a UV/IR cut in the image train. It stops any star bloating, if nothing else.  

57 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

Not having IR/UV cut filter will make colors washed out / unsaturated (even if colors are properly handled).

This is because QE in IR part of the spectrum tends to be similar for all three components of bayer matrix - R, G and B, so each pixels gets added same value in RGB triplet - like adding some amount of white (1,1,1) - that de-saturates colors.

Add on top of that non linear stretch that also tends to de saturates colors - and you'll end up feeling you don't have enough color in the image.

Is this what you had in mind?

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/baader-filters/baader-uvir-cut-filter.html

It says discontinued? No stock?

58 minutes ago, Budgie1 said:

It doesn't help with the colour issue but; when you say you didn't use any filters, does that include a UV/IR cut filter?

The ASI294MC doesn't have a UV/IR cut sensor glass, so if I'm not using any other filters I always have a UV/IR cut in the image train. It stops any star bloating, if nothing else.  

52 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

Not having IR/UV cut filter will make colors washed out / unsaturated (even if colors are properly handled).

This is because QE in IR part of the spectrum tends to be similar for all three components of bayer matrix - R, G and B, so each pixels gets added same value in RGB triplet - like adding some amount of white (1,1,1) - that de-saturates colors.

Add on top of that non linear stretch that also tends to de saturates colors - and you'll end up feeling you don't have enough color in the image.

Oh, I never thought of that. 
 

Yes, I think the 294MC Pro just has AR glass, but no IR/UV coating. 
 

I do not have any UV/IR filters. The filters I have are L-eNhance, IDAS D2 and V4

Would the D2 LP filter be a good option?

Alternatively, does Baader do a 2” UV/IR filter?

10 hours ago, ONIKKINEN said:

I don't have pixinsight, but this sounds bizarre. Elliptical galaxies being round featureless mostly single coloured blobs are about as far away from M33 as possible when it comes to galaxies.

Maybe try just "normal" photometric colour calibration (if there is one in PI?). SCNR also shouldn't be necessary after a good photometric colour calibration so something is wrong.

9 hours ago, Scooot said:

“Here is a screenshot showing my Master Light having had Dynamic crop, DBE, PCC, EX Denoise, Arcsinstretch and histogram stretch.”

I always do Photometric Colour Calibration first before DBE, which is why  I suggested you try that in case DBE or any of the other processes had upset your colour balance. 

9 hours ago, Xiga said:

You might have more joy posting the stacked file to see if others have more luck. You also have to remember that, shooting Broadband in Bortle 8-9 is like playing AP on INSANE mode! Believe it or not, but 12 hrs of OSC is probably nowhere near enough under these conditions. You might need 30-40 hrs, a sobering thought if ever there was one. 

Saying that though, your screenshots do show quite a lot of colour i think. I use APP, and the order i usually do things in is: Background Neutralisation, then Gradient Reduction (DBE for you), followed by PCC (i sometimes use Siril instead of APP for this). Then remove the green, and finally do Arcsinh stretching to preserve the colour. 

HTH. 

5 hours ago, Scooot said:

It’d be interesting to know what your background flux is? There’s a simple script in Pixinsight that measures it. It’s called Calculate Sky Limited Exposure. 

Thank you all for your replies.

Here is my RAW data: 372 120s Lights (discarded quite a few), Darks, Fs & DFs.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8pazqynoadupch9/AACewrQUy3ZAZSG_JcdNtAvGa?dl=0

And here is my version of WBPP:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/vs2tet3hfm98xol/AAApMMnk1Yj-XUZJ6FteKvPGa?dl=0

I haven't changed my calibration routine and stacking in ages.

WBPP 2.2. ALL STOCK, except choosong GALXY in Weighting, and RGGB for all the Lights.

50 Fs, DFs, & Ds

The above was just before I applied SCNR.

Here's what it looks like after SCNR.

And here's the final image. Something's not right? Andromeda, that I shot last month, with the same exact setup was much easier and cleaner, with some great colors?

Good evening everyone.

After spending the past few months focusing on Nebulae, I had a go at M33.

Considering its a Broadband target, with some areas of Halpha, I decided to shoot it WITHOUT any filters, following advice I received on Cloudy Nights.

I am over 12 hours into imaging, and I am not happy with the result.

The image is very MONOCHROME, with barely any color.

The filters I have at my disposal are the Optolong L-eNhance, IDAS LPS D2 and the IDAS LPS V4.

My skies are Bortle 8-9, and I was advised to aim for 20 hours, but I do not see that any more data will bring any color into this project?

I was advised to use ELLIPTICAL GALAXY option in PixInsight's PCC, as well as ARCSINSTRETCH to bring out some color, which it did, but very very faint.

The scope I am using is not the best for the target, agreed, but surely after more than 12 hours I should be doing better?

Scope: WO Star 71 5 element Apo, ZWO ASI294MC Pro and NO FILTER. 120s subs, 400 subs so far.

Here is a screenshot showing my Master Light having had Dynamic crop, DBE, PCC, EX Denoise, Arcsinstretch and histogram stretch.

When I then proceed to Starnet, Curves and Saturation, the colors are barely there, and I somehow need to force color into the image.

You can see that in the histogram I have NOT MOVED the middle slider LEFT, as doing so BLOWS OUT THE WHOLE GALAXY!

Would using the IDAS LPs D2 help at all? or the L-eNhance?

Please help!!

I've been imaging M33 over 5 nights, and I feel beat.

I did stress on QUALITY in the example I gave above. By quality cameras, I meant a high end top quality camera, like a 6200MM or 2600MM. 

Those are rare as hens teeth on the used market, as there probably isn’t a BETTER step up camera than those two in the amateur AP market. Those two examples are usually bought by imagers who have some years of experience in the hobby, and would not go back to just OSC. 
 

I would not count any of the 1600MMs or older CCD mono cameras in the search. I will take an educated guess that almost all those selling a 1600 or older mono CCD camera are probably upgrading to a better mono setup, like the 294MM or 2600MM. 
 

Very rarely you will see a quality high end mono full setup for sale, including camera, FW and filters. Those are usually up for sale by a beginner who enthusiastically got into the hobby, spent a lot upfront, got overwhelmed by the whole process, and either chose to just give up and go back to visual, or go the easier route of an OSC.