SteveNickolls

Hi, I have followed the ST's guide I posted above and used it to wavelet sharpen (SHARP module) the nebulosity in my Heart and Soul image. It does look different on my monitor but interested what anyone else can see regarding a better image. Original- New- It appears (here) brighter and more detail within the nebulosity plus the stars look brighter. Cheers, Steve

This morning I've stumbled over this reference for StarTools concerning processing stars and background independently in the HEAL module, could prove very valuable-http://forum.startools.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=244 Will give it a workout later today. Cheers, Steve

Hope it all works out in the end Ken. Technology is marvelous when it works but sucks when it fails. Look forward to seeing your image. We had visitors tonight so no gear set up but it's clouding over now, and I'm tired :-) Cheers, Steve

Hi All, I've reprocessed the Heart and Soul Nebula image this time taking more time with mask before using the COLOR module and the LIFE module. I used the option to draw the outline of the nebulosity then grow the mask. I used the same mask for the COLOR module (inverted) and returned the mask to normal for use in the LIFE module. I also used 'less=more' option rather than 'isolate'. I'm now going to lie down... Cheers, Steve

Thanks for this Ken, very useful to know. Cheers, Steve

Unsure how many flat frames and dark frames you already have but x50 of each will be fine. Again unsure what you do to combine different dark frame lengths when you have different light frame lengths as I have never tried that approach. Good luck trying. Do let us know how you get on. Cheers, Steve

He, he perhaps I have discovered a new mask tool for StarTools. Now if only I could invert it...! Thanks everyone for the help btw. Cheers, Steve

Hi Ian, I have PM'd you over the likely cause of my DSS settings being different (I think it's because I have been reworking off some old DSS lists when I was experimenting with settings). In the dim past when I worked on my first M31 image last December I tried both options in StarTools. However I have for a long time since only used the 'Linear, Was Bayered, Is not white balanced' (second) option in StarTools. As I mentioned earlier I think the change in DSS settings occurred very recently. Here's the reworked Heart and Soul Nebulae image after changing the DSS settings back and then reprocessing the resulting file in StarTools and using Nige's mask ideas. The nebulosity is more pronounced-yes? Cheers, Steve

Thanks for that Ian, I've checked my DSS settings and changed the, Per channel background calibration as 'no'. I'm going to reprocess my latest image of the Heart and Soul Nebulae and see if there's any noticeable change. I was sure I'd followed the suggested settings, though couldn't recall specific ones, it goes to show. Cheers, Steve

Hi Nige, Thanks so much for this. Not tried the similar brightness or colour mask options so will give them a go, I think it also might be that I rush the mask step and then am unhappy with the end result, I need to be more precise. I'm also interested by what Ivo has said regarding Alt-Az images. I'd considered StarTools as being in somewhat of a dichotomy-meant to appeal both to advanced users (I took that to be the EQ hardened souls) as an alternative to the other products out there and beginners as StarTools was also, "attempting to lower the bar to entry into astrophotography". As a beginner I mistakenly interpretted that to mean Alt-Az imaging-Doh! In an interview made available on the Internet- https://www.reddit.com/r/astrophotography/comments/1n7p63/im_ivo_jager_uverylongtimelurker_author_of/ There Ivo makes it plain- "AP is for everyone, and I wanted to remedy a certain air of elitism that I felt hung around some communities; just because you've been doing AP for years, sunk a lot of money into it, or know how to operate a certain piece of software, doesn't mean that your work or opinions are automatically superior or even good. just because you haven't been doing AP for years, haven't sunk a lot of money into it, or don't know how to operate a certain piece of software, doesn't mean that your work or opinions are automatically inferior or bad. 'just buy a better mount' is not an acceptable answer to a request for help with, for example, rounding stars, nor is suggesting that anyone's efforts are inferior just because people have to make concessions to budget, imaging time, location or otherwise due to their circumstances - some of us have day jobs to take into account, some of us have families to spend quality time with, some of us have limited means, live in rentals, etc. In short, I wanted to do away with the notion that you needed to have been "paying your dues" to get anywhere in this field. I wanted to create something that leveled the playing field a little - something that gave newbies a running start (ease of use) and ameliorated the influence of investment into time (learning curve), into gear (software solutions to hardware problems) and up-front money (ST is cheap and not-for-profit - I don't cover development and support costs by a longshot)." I hear what you say about the YouTube video Nige and am enthused Ivo wants to see some of our images as he may be able to develop StarTools a little along what we need or give advice to us. I guess at the end of the day our data will mostly be among the poorest, quality-wise to develop considering the restrictions Alt-Az work places on data collection, but that's also part of the challenge-right? It will be fascinating to see what comes of this. This is a market area that has somewhat of a vacuum in it right now-but it's a cheaper, accessible starting point for many and a good way to dip your toes into the practical world of astro-photography and see if it is for individuals. I see it as a market set to grow as mounts become more sophisticated and decent images can be made at the entry end of the hobby. Some of the equipment (the DSLR's are already in many households and thus) serve a dual purpose and help moderate costs. I hadn't seen the idea on the StarTools forum of stacking "Per channel background calibration as 'no'. Must take a look in DSS. Good luck in your processing. Cheers, Steve

Hi Nige, after I've had some good, and some poor attempts using isolate in the StarTools' LIFE module can I ask what mask option you use for making your mask-is it the lasso or something else? Cheers, Steve

Thanks Nige, I will give your image 'a go' later tonight, right now I'm sapped of the will to live with StarTools :-) Cheers, Steve

Hi Nige, I know what you mean about making things worse when messing with them. I'm currently struggling with my image of the Heart and Soul Nebulae to tease the nebulosity out while trying to keep a dark background. Have you ever used the LAYER module? I wondered what it could be used to do in StarTools? Cheers, Steve

Hi Nige, Just saw this, what a splendid image, you should feel very pleased with this indeed. I love the colour of the object and your dark background. Given the small amount of light frames you needed to image the object this is just the tonic for the rest of us to try. I'm trying to think why StarTools would not show the star colours, could you put the master image through the COLOR module or would it just create a lot of noise that way (might be a sign of just needing more light frames). Cheers, Steve

Hi Nige, I think you've hit things directly on the head there, if you were taking just a few really long light frames with an EQ mount then a modest number of dark frames would be ok (especially as each dark frame takes the same length of time to take as a long light frame). For us with the Alt-Az gear Ian has the number of dark frames about right at around x50 or so. Having said all this I'm now not using dark frames at all as a trial. My current thinking is that as I can't control the temperature of the DSLR sensor what am I actually doing taking dark frames, they might be making the images worse? Sometimes you find you go through a 'dark night of the soul' (no astro-pun intended) before coming out the other end the wiser for it all. With Alt-Az imaging we have to do everything the harder way, we take lots of short images with less S:N ratio, we have to accommodate field rotation effects and the constraints it places on the altitude of the object meaning we image through more atmosphere and light pollution, plus we often have come along this road because we don't live somewhere dark, can't afford the EQ gear or an observatory and maybe can't get out to a dark location if we wanted to or at least not often. If we didn't do this we would just be reading about it instead. We sometime push the boat out more than the gear and our experience to date can handle but the good thing is we can return to the master images later on when we are more proficient. Just keep your chin up, actually you're doing quite fine :-) Cheers, Steve

Last night I had another go imaging the Heart and Soul Nebulae region using my Canon 600D DSLR with the lens set at 100mm and piggybacked onto the SkyWatcher Startravel 102mm refractor/Synscan Alt-Az mount. The image below came from 124 light frames of forty five seconds each (ISO 800) plus x50 bias and x50 flat frames. I did not use dark frames. The frames were stacked in DSS and processed using StarTools. Also in the image is the Persus double cluster (at 3 o'clock position) and Stock 2 (Muscleman cluster). The open cluster NGC 1027 can be seen in the Heart Nebula. Cheers, Steve

Hi Ian, These are really good images-well done. I think this shows how far you have come since last year. M31 is very colourful and shows the star forming areas nicely. I do like your Perseus Double cluster. Will you be imaging NGC 281 again to add to your existing 17 frames of data? When I attempted The Pacman Nebula last season I took x100 light frames at 40 seconds (ISO 1600) and it was still elusive if that helps judge the number of exposures you might want to try. I may have overlooked what you have recently posted Ian as I catch up but did you include dark frames when processing any of the three objects? Appreciate you can't easily post the FITs file for your M31 with your Internet connection. Best Regards, Steve

Thanks for posting, nice image. I'll try and have a go with the file but I'm away from my main pc right now. Cheers, Steve

+1 to that. You can spend many a clouded out night usefully having another go :-) Cheers, Steve

Hi Nige, Thanks for posting your 'before' and 'after' images. I'd definitely agree that on a larger screen the improvements in both second renditions is more obvious, both being much darker backgrounds and less noise. Well done. With our Alt-Az set ups we get to see the greater effects of light pollution and of imaging at lower altitudes through more atmosphere and the more so the fainter the object. I have come to consider that StarTools needs a certain quality of data to perform at all well, and for me the functioning of the COLOR module is the one most sensitive to poorer data. Thanks again for posting. Cheers, Steve

Thanks Nige, I've only recently started following some advice Ivo made on a forum about using the isolate option in the LIFE module, it really 'pushes back' the background. Some objects respond well to using mask and your data had just enough for StarTools to process the area immediately around the (masked) centre not as background and left it as a wispy area. As I mentioned before with more data this should become easier for you to pull out. You really should be pleased with what you have imaged. The great thing I find with imaging is you can go back at a future date and reprocess your data with your growing ability (whether StarTools or another software) and find what was hiding there all along for you :-) Good look using PS. Cheers, Steve

Wow, I could only dream of being able to spend so long on one target. They must have excellent conditions (lucky people). Regards, Steve

Nige, I just had a further attempt in StarTools with your image- Very delicate balance between the faint nebulosity and the noise. It will be fascinating to see what you get after even more exposures. I managed to play with the image in the LIFE module with a mask and isolate option. I used mask to cover just the centralpart of the PN and the little blue fleck at seven o'clock. There was just enough in the halo for StarTools not to 'push it back' into the background like the surrounding stars. Good luck. Steve

Here's a closer cropped processing in StarTools- I'd be happy with this, after all it is a faint, small object Nige. Cheers, Steve

Hi Nige, I've had an attempt with your Cats Eye Nebula using StarTools- i'll try a closer cropped one next. Cheers, steve