RobertI

1 hour ago, badgerchap said:

unfortunately we can't discuss glass price specifics for commercial reasons.

A bit of a weird statement considering they specify “FCD100” in the description - so they can state it but not discuss it? Weird.  Thanks for the update though. Sounds like our theories might be correct.  🙂

I’m now thinking that retailers should list all the higher end scopes as “scopes for under 30 year olds”! 😆

I don’t want to divert the thread too much, but I think Altair have got their description wrong - Astrotech appear to do a 102ED F7 doublet with FCD-100 glass for $1200 - double the price of the Altair which claims the same glass. Astrotech also do a 102ED with FK61 glass for $650.  I’d assume the Altair 102ED is more akin to the latter with FPL51 equivalent glass. 

Another vote for the 102ED-R or Starfield, really wonderful scopes and I’m very glad I stretched my budget to get FPL53 over FPL51. As for whether the 102ED is similar optical quality to the 102ED-R, I can’t see how it can be given that the scopes look very similar mechanically but the 102ED is £300 less - the difference must be in the glass. 

2 hours ago, Kon said:

The solid tube will be much heavier to lift, so consider where you will be storing and moving it.

My plan was to ultimately store it outside on a handy corner of the patio, and wheel it into place when needed. Possibly under a Telegizmos cover or sentry box or both. Would have the advantage of much reduced cool down time. I guess the outside storage is a whole other topic, but that was my thinking.

8 hours ago, John said:

Good idea to rent / borrow something of that aperture to see what it can do.

My back garden is around bortle 5 and I found that a 12 inch could go pretty "deep" on decently dark nights. I managed to see the Horsehead Nebula a few times, with the aid of an H-Beta filter.

Exploring areas such as the Virgo "bowl", where galaxies abound, is really absorbing - too many faint smudges at times to know where you are !

Panning along the Markarian's Chain on the Virgo / Coma border is amazing - as many as a dozen galaxies in the field at once with a wide field eyepiece.

Features / details start to appear in the brighter DSO's that have gone previously unnoticed. Hickson and other galaxy groupings become very interesting.

Get some strong coffee in - you have some long nights ahead 🙂

 

Thanks John those are exactly the kinds of objects I was hoping to see, good to know what I can expect. Yes coffee and late nights, I’ll have to plan one or two recovery days in! 

Thanks for the continuing thoughts (and jokes!) everyone. Having decided on the idea of a solid tube to stay in the garden, I’m now thinking a truss dob would give the delicious possibility of viewing from some really dark skies - what a treat that would be.

I have now booked an Orion Optics 12” for the month of November, so hoping for some dark skies and also the possibility of Jupiter, Mars and Luna to give me a real feel for what a 12” can do. I shall also be going to Kelling in October and shall try and blag a look through a 12” whilst there. 👍

1 hour ago, woldsman said:

If you need a part, I think I still have a spider taken off a 130 pds that might fit your scope. If you'd like to have it, PM me with your address. 

It's back home - I can look for it at the weekend. 

 

That’s really very kind of you - I will PM you.  

Quick session tonight, this time with the 102ED and binoviewer giving 57x mag. What better objects to observe under a bright moon than some lovely doubles, assisted by Starsense. Mu Bootes was a lovely triple as was 17 Draconis - both with the fainter companions a few seconds of arc apart - well worth tracking down. Plenty of other glorious doubles in area of Hercules, Draco and Corona Borealis, including Mu Draconis (Arrakis for those of you into Science Fiction), Zeta Corona Borealis, Delta Herculis (Sarin) and Rho Herculis. The highlight was Alpha Herculis (Rasalgethi) with a bright orange primary and much fainter secondary a few seconds of arc away. The binoviewer worked superbly, encouraging me to linger and soak up the beauty of these heavenly delights. 

2 hours ago, niallk said:

That's a great option to be able to hire for a week or two to get a feel for the physical set up, tear down & cooling! 

I’ll post full reports if and when I get the beast.

Thanks for the answers so far folks, lots of helpful suggestions, and reassuring to know the views are worth it. I now think that transporting the thing by car is not realistic, so I’ll work on the basis that it’s home only. If I can set it up on wheels so that I only have to push it a few feet along the patio, then maybe weight is less of an issue, but if a second hand OO comes up, then that might be an option. That’s just reminded me that there is a company which hires scopes out by the week, including an OO 12” dob, so I’m now thinking I should ‘try before I buy’ assuming we get some clear nights.

22 minutes ago, Second Time Around said:

The Bresser rocker boxes dismantle.

"In addition, the new 12" BRESSER Messier makes it easy to transport the device as compactly as possible - the rocker box can be dismantled in a few simple steps because the parts are assembled with metal quick-release connectors. This quickly turns a bulky rocker box into a handy flat package of individual parts."

Thanks for the heads up, although I’m struggling to find the 12” version for sale anywhere….

EDIT - found a retailer selling the 12”

I’m sure this has been discussed at length, but I can’t find many relevant threads, so here goes. I’m considering getting a 12” dob for visual. I’ve had smaller scopes up to 8” for many years but have had very little experience of larger apertures apart from a wonderful look through some large dobs (16”-20”) last year at Kelling. I would be using the scope mainly from my Bortle 4/5 garden and potentially putting in the car to take to Kelling once or twice a year. I’m hoping to be able to see a bit more of everything with the 12”, including hints of spiral arms and dark lanes in the brighter galaxies, more structure in nebulae such as the Crescent and possibly some challenge objects like the Horsehead. I will probably initially have to store it outside in a small shed or under a Telegizmos cover…. or both. 

So some key questions; is it worth it from my limited skies, which one to get, and do I really understand what I’m getting myself into?! I suppose the most important question is, will I actually use the thing?

There seem to be three main contenders in my price range, the StellaLyra solid tube, the Skywatcher Flexitube, and the Explore Scientific Ultra Light. I am thinking that options 1 & 2 will not be transportable in my family hatchback with tent, etc due to the huge rocker boxes (unless they dismantle?), so that renders the ability to collapse the Flexitube redundant. So it’s either observing from home only with Option 1, or possible observing trips with option 3. I am currently inclined to option 1…..

Thanks for reading this far, any thoughts and advice appreciated.

Nice report on an interesting variety of objects. I enjoy using my 102ED with the 17.5mm Morpheus for clusters and general low power stuff, it’s a nice combo. 👍

On 16/08/2024 at 04:04, joseag285 said:

However, a few weeks back my cat somehow managed to drop the whole thing and it hit against the floor pretty hard

I imagine that’s the last time you let your cat use the telescope?

Is it possible that the corrector lens has moved inside the draw tube such that you now have to rack the draw tube in a long way to reach focus? Can the lens be moved inside the draw tube at all? 

Thanks Nik, will check these out. 

I ran out of space in my case some years ago so I now leave a couple of low power eyepieces attached to my grab and go scopes, which is useful if I need to use them quickly. My eyepieces are not as nice as yours though! 
 

Despite the above image, it’s hard to visualise how big this thing is in reality - I guess the 24kg weight is a clue!! 😲

Nice rendition of the coat hanger. 👍 

That’s depressing, really feel for you. It’s not easy being an astronomer when you’re surrounded by people who are terrified of the dark. Would a portable light screen help? You’ve probably already considered them but it’s this kind of thing - https://www.astromag.co.uk/screen.html

Super little session tonight with the 102ED, 17.5mm Morpheus and filters, guided by Starsense.

A quick view to the southern horizon saw M16 Swan Nebula and M17 Eagle Nebula, nicely revealed through the OIII filter, the Swan being particularly bright. A little way up Milky Way was M11 the fan shaped and densely packed Wild Duck cluster.  Over to some old favourites in Cygnus the Dumbell and the Veil, both again wonderful with the OIII. The Coathanger asterism fitted perfectly in the FOV. Swinging over to Cepheus revealed M52 with another cluster right next door making it look like the double cluster - need to consult Interstellarum to find out what the other cluster is. Lots of little clusters visible when sweeping around. The highlight was stumbling accross Delta Cephei, a beautiful Yellow and White double (I think this might be a line of sight double, not a genuine binary system). 
 

Nice review Paul, sounds like the perfect lightweight mount for my 102ED! 

Another thing to consider is the look of the scope - quite often kids want something that “looks like a telescope”, ie: a refractor! Newtonians just don’t create the same kind of excitement! So I’m going to be controversial and suggest this:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/celestron-astromaster-lt70az-f10-refractor-telescope.html

I’ve actually used one and it’s very capable. The tube is very light and sits well on this kind of mount. 

I don’t want to seem negative, but in the event that it only gets used once or twice, at least a refractor will look cool setup in the bedroom, and may be a reminder to have another go sometime or be used as a terrestrial scope for birdwatching. Hopefully the bug will set in straight away and it well get loads of use. 

13 minutes ago, Waddensky said:

I have both, 10x50 6.5 degree binoculars and an ST80 refractor with an ES 24mm 68 degree eyepiece offering just over 4 degrees of true field of view.

The refractor of course goes much deeper, showing fainter stars which is especially apparent in regions with many stars, like the denser parts of the Milky Way (which also helps to distinguish dark nebulae). Mounted on an AZ-4 mount it offers very stable views unlike the handheld binos. An additional benefit is that you can attach a filter to the eyepiece, to hunt for diffuse bright nebulae like the Veil, North America and southern gems like the Omega and the Lagoon.

On the other hand, there's something about the two-eyed viewing in the binoculars. It gives a sense of depth, a more immersive experience than the ST80 offers. I also get the impression that star colours are more vivid in the binoculars (30/31 Cygni, Albireo). Might have something to do with the coatings, not really sure (the exit pupil is comparable). Although both setups are reasonably grab-n-go, the binos are much easier to carry and use.

So to answer your question, ehm, both...? They both get a lot of use in my case.

My experience exactly, not much to add to this. 👍

Wonderful project, look forward to updates.