KEJ

Thank you - just outside now.

I fired off 50 mins at the veil and now just having a quick go at M33 before bed, more of test really.

All seems to be working, only saving to the memory stick and viewing on the iPad and stacking in the app.

I will stack properly on the laptop tomorrow.

Gain 101 and 5min exp on the veil and 3 mins on M33 before the Moon appears(any minute).

Thanks again for your help and everyone else.

31 minutes ago, symmetal said:

Hi KEJ,

Yes, your drawing is correct with the updated increase on the flattener adjustment from 11.2 to around 12.9mm to account for the extra glass in the way. The front glass and the filter are 2mm thick I believe, so adding 1.3mm for the total glass would in theory be correct making a setting of 12.5mm on the FF the more theoretically correct figure.

However, the sensor size on the 533 is not large, so FF spacing is not so critical, and I doubt whether 0.4mm would make any actual difference to the image results. It's a coincidence the spacers you've used actually make your 533 setup almost the same as a DSLR. 🙂

In practice, with large sensors, you almost always have to make slight fine adjustments to the FF spacing to get the optimum results, as some of the figures quoted for camera back focus etc. may be slightly different from the published figure.

Alan

Alan

Brilliant thank you.

I just took a test shot over the valley(only manual focus from the inside the house/kitchen) and it looks clear enough.

How do I know(stupid question maybe) that I don't have the optimal settings or basically is it clear, then you are fine ?

 

Just checked the website:

For my camera 55mm back focus, then using your diagram (always confused with the 2 two columns A/B) 67.7 required.

 

Is this correct please

50mm of spacers + 12.5mm adjusted on flattener + 6.5mm sensor seated = 69mm. (allowing for extra glass?)

Is that because from the last glass, that is where the measurement is taken ?

 

On their website is states back focus distance 6.5mm/17.mm is that to give you room to play/focus or anywhere there will be fine ?

 

Thanks in advance for your help

 

 

4 hours ago, Adam J said:

Honestly, I am not 100% sure warm up is a big issue with CMOS as the number of times I have disconnected the camera by mistake (equivalent to pulling the power) is not insignificant. So while i would not do it as a matter of course I dont view its a critical either. 

Adam

Adam

Ok, thanks.............just me not knowing, so I would rather ask.

 

Cheers

On 05/10/2020 at 20:00, symmetal said:

Hi KEJ, I have a ZS61 + Flat 61A + ASI071MC.

The back focus distance from the flattener rear to the camera sensor is 67.7mm as shown below for the ZS61 scope.

This is with the adjustment ring set to zero on the flattener. A DSLR and T-adapter has a standard back focus distance of 55mm so to achieve 67.7mm you can set the adjustment ring on the flattener adjuster to add the difference of 12.7mm as shown below. This shows 12.9 instead of 12.7 but it's close enough.

The flattener rear thread is M48 so I used an M48 extender followed by a M48 to M42 adapter to screw on to the camera. Using M48 for most of the distance reduced any possible vignetting that may occur. The 533 back focus is 6.5mm so you want a total spacing of 61.2mm. You have up to 15mm of adjustment on the flattener so the extension spacing needs to be between 61.2 and 46.2mm with any shortfall below 61.2 made up on the flattener adjustment.

With the flattener adjustment ring fully removed you can insert a 2" filter in the rear of the flattener if you wish though the filter will reduce the adjustment range by the thickness of the filter. With a UV/IR cut filter in mine the adjustment range is from about 7mm to 15mm. Filters can be added as part of the M48 to M42 extension if preferred as indicated in the camera manual. There are a number of extensions and adapters with the camera which will work but as I preferred M48 for as far as possible I bought a separate 30mm M48 extender from FLO.

Alan 

Alan hi

Once again thank you for the attached.

So just going off your measurements(I still haven't looked on the website yet).

I have now set it as per my attached drawing.

As suggested I connected the 2" IR filter inside the flattener and then put the hood back on over up to the 11.2mm mark.

I then added 2 of the spacers that came with the camera to make a total distance between the flat surface of the camera and flattener hood of approx 50mm.

 

In theory 11.2mm + 50mm = 61.2mm

However, that is my measurement to the outer camera case??

I will give it a try now and then also have a look online.

 

Thanks

 

*** Update saw your second message ***

So I have now changed the 11.2mm below(in diagram) back to 12.5mm...................originally I had it set to 12.9mm for my Nikon Camera.

Revised:

Now, in theory 12.5mm + 50mm = 62.5 mm

 

Thank you all.

All the gear finally arrived, I removed my DSLR, added the 2" IR filter into the 61A flattener, used two spacers and connected the camera ASI533.

Kept the focus position to what I used for my DSLR camera on the WO Z61 scope, cooler connected up and working, piggy backed my ASI120MC-S into the 533 and Bingo all working.

 

The only thing I want to check are the measurements that Alan gave me above tomorrow, I might have hit the numbers exactly by accident & got them spot on.

Regarding cooling, is there a procedure you should follow or is that BS to avoid thermal shock to the sensor?

Example

Before a nights shoot, 10 mins before set the temperature to zero on the camera, 5 mins before down to your desired temperature -10.....

take all of your pictures

Then the reverse........set camera to zero and leave for 10 mins before turning off etc or discounting the fan.

 

What do you chaps do ?

Cheers

 

Adam hi

Bo*****s!     My order has been dispatched, I didn't realise that.

And thank you........I can have a look when it all arrives.............

Also, whilst being slightly annoyed, I won't mind too much if I can actually us the 2 inch filter.

 

 

Alan

Yes, that now all makes sense - thank you.

I will attempt to add the 2" filter to/inside the flattener and then check out your numbers.

 

Brilliant and thanks

******

Update

******

I did just query this with the Retailer and now, they said they would recommend 2" IR filter instead.

And do away with the 1.25" filter and adapters, which was in the back of my mind and my reason for also firing off the above to them this morning.

Hopefully now sorted out and before the order is dispatched.

Alan

Right,  run and breakfast out of the way, not good when it's raining especially.

I just popped into the kitchen and disconnected my DSLR and added on the William Optics (WO) 1.25" adapter instead, so I assume and would you agree, that potentially this would be a setup that should work(possibly tweaks for back focus).

 

Equipment Train

WO Z61 Scope + WO 61A Flattener + WO 1.25” Adapter(female)  + *(ZWO 1.25” T-Mount(male) with 1.25” IR Filter fitted + ZWO ASI533MC Pro camera)*

*(New equipment on order)

 

As shown below, minus the new equipment

Thanks

 

 

 

Alan good morning

Brilliant and thank you, once the camera arrives I will have a setup session in the kitchen.

I believe the camera comes with several connectors and initially the shop advised I could use a 1.25 IR filter in the 1.25 adapter connector which would fit into WO female(which I currently don't use).

I will add some pictures later to show what I mean, but thank you for the info.......watch this space.

Cheers

Keith 

Hi

Can I please ask, is there anyone out there with the following or a similar setup to this:
 

• William Optics Z61 Scope + WO 61A Flattener + ZWO ASI533MC Pro (or other ZWO Camera) ?

 

Currently,  I have been using the following setup:

• William Optics Z61 Scope + WO 61A Flattener + Nikon DSLR
   

However, by the end of the week I am hoping to have this new setup:

• William Optics Z61 Scope + WO 61A Flattener + ZWO ASI533MC Pro
   

I was really just wondering how the more experienced out there had configured/connected their equipment together?

How people connect their ZWO cameras to the flatteners?

Are the flatteners still required with the smaller sensor cameras ?

I was just wondering if anyone has any pictures of similar setups to above please (equipment trains)?

 

Thanks in advance for any comments or advice.

Adam hi

I hope you are right.  

I know, my finger was there............

Of course now, I have more questions as currently I have a WOZ61 Scope = then the 61A Flattener = then my My DSLR

So not sure at this stage if the flattener will still be required(I suspect it will be) or how it will all connect up..............to be continued.

 

 

Pulled the trigger on the ASI533MC Pro

Hi

I was just after some advice and opinions on which potential ZWO camera I should buy.

Currently, I have been using either a Nikon D3300(crop) or Nikon D800(FF) on a William Optics Z61(61mm, 360mm FL) main scope with a 61A Flattener, mounted on SW AZ-GTI, controlled by a ASIAIR Pro, guided by ZWO ASI120MC-S and 30F4 guide scope.

I am pretty new to astrophotography, so I am also currently really happy sticking with a colour camera, rather than B&W, especially with our weather and sometimes limited windows of opportunity.

The two in the running are:

ASI183MC Pro or ASI533MC Pro

So, thinking aloud, these are some of the questions I am curious about and I am leaning towards the ASI533MC Pro.

1) FOV

I think the ASI533MC Pro camera is a great option(really like the zero amp glow), my only slight concern was the FOV on my WO Z61(61mm and 360mm FL) for some of the wider DSO’s like M31 and M45 and even maybe some of the other nebula’s(all that said maybe they wouldn’t fit either at 360mm on any of those cameras).

 So, what are my options on that front………….Mosaics, Reducer. However, I have some other Nikon camera lens, providing those adapters work and has anyone ever tried them ?

 I like the idea of using an adapter as I do have various camera lens which could potentially give me more options(zoomed in more or further back), this wouldn't be my goto option for DSO, but I do like the idea as a fall back.

Ie:(All Nikon lens): 

 Sigma 150-600mm F5-6.3

Nikon 24-120mm F4 

Sigma 105mm F2.8 DG

Nikkor 55-300mm F4.5-5.6

And several smaller(80mm, 50mm, 35mm, 10mm etc).

 

Question 1

Are those ZWO camera to Nikon DSLR camera lens adapters any good ?

2) Arc Seconds Per Pixel

So, my understanding and providing my calculations are correct, initially it would appear that the 183 might suit me better(FOV and Arc Seconds per pixel) on the WO Z61.

Based on.

 ASI183 MC Pro

2.4/360 x 206 = 1.37

ASI533 MC Pro

3.76 / 360 X 206 = 2.15

 

And my understanding is that figure should ideally be between 1 and 2, although 0.15 over 2 is not a great deal if I compare my DSLR’s below that I have been using.

 D800 Nikon

4.88/360 x 206 = 2.79

 D3300 Nikon

3.89/360 x 206 = 2.22

 And to be honest and ok I know no better, they seem relatively good.

However, later maybe would I buy a bigger scope (if my wife doesn't murder me), so potentially on a larger scope say 600mm FL – I believe the 533 is more of a perfect fit.

 ASI183 MC Pro

2.4/600 x 206 = 0.82

 

ASI533 MC Pro

3.76 /600 X 206 = 1.29

Question 2

Should I be concerned that for my current scope(Z61) that the arc seconds per pixel are just outside 2.15 going for the ASI533MC ?

 3) Picture Quality

At the minute I pretty much view my pictures on the computer or email people(sending them to sleep). But the other factor is picture quality, if I did print(would I ever ????) or general viewing.

 So looking at picture size, the ASI533 MC does seem to have a pretty big drop off pixel wise

 

ASI183 MC

5496 X 3672 = 20meg pixel picture

 

ASI533 MC

3008 X 3008 = 9meg pixel picture

My current setup using DSLR's

D3300 Nikon

6045 X 4003 = 24meg pixel picture

 D800 Nikon

7360 X 4912 = 36meg pixel picture

 Now the ASI183MC Pro has small pixel pitch/size on the sensor and captures a larger area potentially, so I assume in greater detail.

Therefore, looking at Fig01 below the FOV and not really a million miles out size wise, but considering the pixels per picture, could I assume the 533 would be a lot worse(almost half the quality), possibly on a single exposure(not that I would as a final product when stacking).

OR

When stacking, albeit 100 x 9meg(533) pictures or 100 x 20 meg(183)pictures, the quality of the final outputs would in fact be similar and it would be hard to tell the difference.

All that said, the ASI533MC Pro, is already cropped in as such, so maybe I wouldn’t be cutting in so much in post, but not so detailed.

 

On the other hand is that very important with such distance objects DSO’s

 

Question 3

Should I be concerned that its only 9meg ?

Sorry for the long winded questions, but I want to make the right choice.

Fig01 (sky safari comparing 533 vs 183) 533 is square based on using Z61 scope.

 

 

Pulled the trigger and ordered one.

 

Hi

What brilliant, outstanding pictures.

Could I please ask for your opinion and advice ?

Basically, I currently have an older Meade LX10(clock work powered RA only) but a lovely scope for planetary.

And I have a ASI120MC-S camera that I have used for planetary and also to guide my WOZ61 for DSO using a DSLR(still new to all of that). However, I have been looking at some of the reviews for the new ASI 462MC.

 

Q1) My question is, do you consider the 462 a worth while upgrade to the 120 ?

 

My longer term aim is to then use the 462 potentially for planetary and guiding and to probably then sell my 120MC-S and later(if not divorced) to look at a DSO camera for the Z61(maybe 183MC or 533MC), much

later after hiding all of the knives in the house and selling all my belongings.

 

Q2) I appreciate the 462 is primarily a planetary camera, but could it be used for DSO ?

(Not sure if anyone has tried or tested that, currently I am using unmodified DSLR's - just thinking as a stop gap as well)

 

Hopefully you don't mind all of the questions and thanks in advance for any replies.

 

 

On 29/06/2020 at 10:15, dunc said:

I've got a RaspberryPi running AstroPi3, pretty much the same as an ASIAir. It is welded with a sticky rubber sheet (car phone holder) to a 20000mAh usb power pack and a double power lead to give 3.1amps capability which will keep it going for hours running a guide cam, arduino PnP focuser and ASI294 (uncooled). I strap it to the tripod as I don't want excess load on the StarAdventurer with my Sharpstar 61EDPH, there is only one USB cable to it from the ASI294 and a 5 volt power lead for the focuser so cables management is simple. 

Nice one.

I need to get a power pack for external remote locations, ideally for me to power the AZ-GTI and ASIAIR + guide camera..

I do have a little RAVPower pack, but that's a 15000, but unfortunately only 5v jobby.

So is yours 12v ?

 

 

I just found an old wifi extender, so I set that up to use the same mains plug I use to power the ASIAIR outside and that's now all connected to the home wifi router.

The good news now, I can control it from anywhere in the house and especially from bed.

New iPhone is 100%, but the 2nd generation iPad(100 years old) struggles downloading pictures, but both work!

 

Tell me about it!   

Restoring a Backup on a Mac

 

Something else I came across and a chap called Terry on Facebook had a solution.

Again, you might already know this, but just in case.

 

Backup

You buy a new ASIAIR Pro, you are pretty much advised that one of the first things you should do, is to create a backup of your software(includes your license key) from the supplied SD card.

And one of the common methods suggested for Mac users is to use the “Apple Pi Baker” program/application.

  

 

So, I used the application to create my backup and saved it in a safe place, in fact I made two copies(belt and braces).

Then, yesterday, I thought I should really try to restore one of these backups to make sure they actually work, else what is the point of having a backup for that rainy day.

And actually, I will keep the original safe and use my copy going forward.

 

Restore

So, I inserted a new blank SD card(Fat32) and started the restore process, letting it run its course.

Once it had finished, I did a quick eye ball to compare the copy to the original and all the files appeared to be there.

 

 

 

I then plugged the restored SD card back into the ASIAIR Pro, but the device would not start/boot up!

Just in case, I then reformatted another SD card and tried that one, but still no good.

I then created another backup from the original SD card(so all in all I had img and zip versions) and tried to restore them, the same result, fail.

 

 On further investigation, it looks like this is fairly common.

 Terry on ASIAIR Facebook group suggested downloading the file from the ZWO website, but then using your own License file.

 

 

I then used the ASIAIR PRO link above(from the “How_to_Restore_ASIAIR_OS.pdf” on line doc)  to get the file.

First, keeping a copy of my zwoair_license safe of course(still on the original SD card).

The file is pretty large, unzips to about 31 GB and takes a while to download(9GB zipped) even on cable.

 

I then restored(using Apple Pi Baker) this new downloaded file to my new SD card and once it had completed, I then overwrote(replaced) the 

existing “zwoair_license” file with my original(my unique supplied copy).

Next, I then inserted the new copied/restored SD card into the ASIAIR Pro and it started.

Finally, I then connected via the ASIAIR app using my IPhone and was prompted to update the firmware to the latest version which I did.

 

Happy Ending

Bingo all good, the original SD card supplied by ZWO stored in a safe place and I am now using this copy going forward.

 

I finally took mine out and it worked like a dream, I am really impressed with the ASIAIR Pro.

I took 21 X 3min exposures(Nikon D3300 crop camera), not up to the standards of some of the people of here, but I was pleased(Fig1).

In addition on the ZWO website, I found some information that enables SkySafari Plus to also work with the complete setup(Fig2) and I appreciate that the ASIAIR Pro has its own DB, but the SkySafari interface is quite nice and its another option.

 

Fig1(M51)

 

 

Fig2(SkySafari settings)

I like that idea.  Looks a nice setup and a decent mount.

Hi

I have currently gone for this option.

This then sits on my AZ-GTI  mount, but pretty much the same config as you would have.

The only potential issue with placing it on the tripod are the then longer leads getting tangled etc as it moves around, although yours would just be the RA so not so bad.

Cheers

I was the same, bear in mind I am also pretty new to all of this.

I mean ok, maybe that is not a bad idea and as you say and it works, what the hell. 

However, with the ASIAIR Pro, no need, point in the general direction the best you can and let it do its thing.

I suppose why not try it on your next outing, providing the weather improves !

Have you managed to have a play with your ASIAIR Pro outside yet or the weather has beaten you ?

 

 

Yes, that was my issue, longer leads and more likely to tangle as well.

So I thought get everything as close to the axis as possible(lower) and that means shorter leads(bit less weight as well).

 

In your case the ASIAIR Pro is pretty light anyway, although the closer to the centre of gravity the better.

Regarding a longer shaft, I assume when stationary the Net weight will be less, however, as its like a lever, I assume the motor on the turning point will still need the same force if though you had the two weights or whatever is needed for the balance point.

 

Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world.

Archimedes

The bottom line if it works......Also with the ASIAIR Pro is there a need for the red dot finder as the device pretty much centres on whatever you want it to or do you use it for other things as well.