Help me future proof myself

[nmoushon]

I am very happy with my current setup that in my sig...as soon as I master this CCD/MaxIm learning. But I know that I will be wanting to upgrad in the next couple years. This might sound like a ways aways but I'm slowly saving and this will allow me to decide how much I need to set away. So I need some help with some decision making and making sure every thing works together. So here's my ideal set up that I'm pretty sure will be with in my reach without having to feel too much wrath from the wife:

My goal is to move away from widefield AP and into long FL AP and focus on galaxies and/or specific parts of nebula. I will be building at least a permanent pier set up for my mount if not a roll off roof obsy. Once I have that built I will be upgrading my mount to a Losmandy G-11 with everything. On that I will be looking to put a 8",10" or 12" RC with a moonlite focuser and use my dual chip SBIG 2000XM for both imaging and guiding. This is one reason I choose this camera in the first place as it eliminates extra weight from a guide scope/cam and any problems with an OAG. As its almost needed to image with an RC I will be purchasing a reducer/flattener.

So the help I need from the more experienced people here is to help me make sure all of this equipement, not only works together, but also makes my setup the best combo of components thats possible in my type of budget. I don't have a set budget but the equipement I listed is the best, that I know of, in its own budget range. Also depends if I can pick it up second hand or not.

A couple questions:

I know the G-11 is a great mount for the price but are there other comparable options out there? The Mesu/Micron mounts are out of my price range. As much as I would want one but unless I get a HUGE pay raise in the next couple years it aint happening. I think thats more of a mid life crisis or retirement purchase lol.

In regards to the RCs: I know of several manufacturers that make both steel and CF tubes of all those sizes. Is anyone better or worse than the others? I will be keeping towards the lower end of these scopes as they just get into rediculous prices if you start getting into the open truss designs. Also I know that technically the G-11 could hold a 12" RC but is it a good combo to image with or is a 10" the max for the G-11?

I think my SBIG will be a nice fit on any of the RCs I'm thinking of but not sure. I'm not really wanting to jump up in chip size as the price jump is even more. But if my SBIG is really robbing me of a lot then that might have to be a consideration.

What reducers are a good fit for RCs? Makers? Types? This is one part I can't find much info on.

Not necessarily looking for every question to be answered in great detail here some links to where the right info is would be great also. I don't mind doing my own research. Just need to help going in the right direction and some helpful suggestions from people who've already been through this all. No need for me to reinvent the wheel here.

Thanks,

Nik

[nmoushon]

Kind of posted this at an odd hr. So just bumping it.

[pete_l]

I will be upgrading my mount to a Losmandy G-11

It's difficult for us europeans to talk about Losmandy mounts. Over here they are neither good value nor well supported (at least IMHO. I have a GM-8 circa 2003 that cost more than you guys pay for a G11. When it had a problem I was told that it would take at least 6 months to ship, fix,return as warranty work was done at the lowest possible price. I.E. sent by sea - with many, many stops en-route to the "wrong" side of the USA. Maybe it's better now?).

Our "local" problems notwithstanding, G11s are an old design, dating back over 20 years. So while they are obviously tried and tested, you'd hope that by now there would be better AND cheaper mounts available. You might be better off posing your question on somewhere like CN that has more experience of american made mounts.

Over here, mounts like the Avalon Linear or Fornax 51 would be comparable options, though the EQ8 overshadows them all.

[NickK]

problem is - as times goes by.. the software has to track the operating system releases. Developers then need to charge in order to keep up.. 

[nmoushon]

It's difficult for us europeans to talk about Losmandy mounts. Over here they are neither good value nor well supported (at least IMHO. I have a GM-8 circa 2003 that cost more than you guys pay for a G11. When it had a problem I was told that it would take at least 6 months to ship, fix,return as warranty work was done at the lowest possible price. I.E. sent by sea - with many, many stops en-route to the "wrong" side of the USA. Maybe it's better now?).

Our "local" problems notwithstanding, G11s are an old design, dating back over 20 years. So while they are obviously tried and tested, you'd hope that by now there would be better AND cheaper mounts available. You might be better off posing your question on somewhere like CN that has more experience of american made mounts.

Over here, mounts like the Avalon Linear or Fornax 51 would be comparable options, though the EQ8 overshadows them all.

Forgot that Losmandy was more of a US mount. My bad. I did post this on CN as well and getting some responses. But just need as many experienced peoples responses and opinions as possible. Want to go through as little hassle as possible when this all comes together.

On thing that several people on CN have suggested is that I go with a EdgeHD instead of a RC. I mainly chose an RC because its natively faster and with a reducer is at a very respectable speed. But the someone suggested the Meade 10" SCT ACF which is at f/8. Now with that being posted not sure whats different between a SCT and an RC for imaging? Any thoughts?

[Chris Rowland]

The issue with RC, ACF and normal SCT scopes is focal plane curvature. SCTs also have coma.  This means that there may be no right focus position for all of a large CCD chip.

Traditional SCTs have a curved focal plane and coma so the stars near the edge become non-circular and out of focus.

The RC and ACF both remove the coma, the stars remain round but may not be in focus.

The EdgeHD OTAs both remove coma and reduce the focal plane curvature so stars remain in focus and round.

The downside of the EdgeHD is that the focal reducers are large and expensive.

That's my understanding of this anyway.

Chris

[iksose7]

If it was between a RC or a SCT i would go for the RC. I dont have any experience with scopes but i've read a fair chunk about them and sifted through a lot the images produced by different types.

I feel the RCs are more tried and trusted and you will get great support if having a problem. I dont see that many people using Edge HDs and when i do the images are either poor/ok or just pure excellence. Thats just my opinion though 

But if i had the money and i saw an image, say something like this - http://www.astrobin.com/full/60357/0/ - then i would definitely be buying a similar scope and try to get similar results, especially if i was wanting to 'settle down' down with a scope and try to master its full potential. A scope around 2000mm is great for galaxies and nebula, and judging by that image its great for imaging nebula in other galaxies too

Obviously different camera/scope combos will have an input but i'm afraid i know very little about all that!

All in all, i'm sure the Edge HD would do great if mastered but like i said, i would go RC. 

[nmoushon]

I've always thought that the RC would be better quality for imaging than the SCT also but everyone would on CN are really pushing the EdgeHD. Like to the point where I think they they that RCs are very much inferior to the Edge. You can read what they said here: http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6191356/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1#Post6193100 Its kind of a little scary lol. It like everyone on here pushing everyone new person to the ED80/HEQ5 combo lol.

[iksose7]

Just spent an hour looking at more on the Edge HD. I take back what i said, the Edge HDs sound like very nice scopes! Still a very tough decision though. Wouldn't like to be in your shoes!

[ollypenrice]

The Losmandy is a weary old design and better can be had. Wait and see how the EQ8 turns out. I've taken a chance on one and Gina's is doing brilliantly. Mine is a couple of months away, I guess, in the next batch.

The Avalon GEM seems good, too.

The Edge will be a heck of a lot easier to sort out than the RC, almost certainly. You'd need the reducer (don't image at F10!!!) and that reduces the corrected field but it's still quite large. There is also the issue of open optics. They get dirty and need cleaning, then they need collimating again. The SCT is great from this point of view.

Olly

[nmoushon]

I didn't think the scope would be the difficult choice here, I thought it was going to be the mount. Boy was I wrong lol.

Olly, Thanks for the input. The EQ8 does seem more like a better and better choice. I knew the G-11 had been around for a while but I huess I didn't know that it really has changed much with the new tech. Unfortunately its not being sold here in the US yet. But it does look like its being sold in Canada  so I might have to make a trip up there and pick one up.

Never thought that the EdgeHD would beat out a RC. But guess I didn't do my homework good enough. I would never image at F/10 that would be mind numbingly slow to collect the needed data lol. Are there reducers that are faster than F/7 though? F/7 still seems a bit slow to me. Is this the norm in long FL imaging to shoot this slow? I know I'm use to a fast refractor but still...

[nmoushon]

Just did a little research. So is the Meade LX850 ACF series basically the same as Celestron EdgeHDs? Optics wise that is. I know the design is different. All of Meades are native F/8 where Celestron are F/10. Anyone know anything about them?

[ollypenrice]

I didn't think the scope would be the difficult choice here, I thought it was going to be the mount. Boy was I wrong lol.

Olly, Thanks for the input. The EQ8 does seem more like a better and better choice. I knew the G-11 had been around for a while but I huess I didn't know that it really has changed much with the new tech. Unfortunately its not being sold here in the US yet. But it does look like its being sold in Canada  so I might have to make a trip up there and pick one up.

Never thought that the EdgeHD would beat out a RC. But guess I didn't do my homework good enough. I would never image at F/10 that would be mind numbingly slow to collect the needed data lol. Are there reducers that are faster than F/7 though? F/7 still seems a bit slow to me. Is this the norm in long FL imaging to shoot this slow? I know I'm use to a fast refractor but still...

There are RCs and RCs. If you buy a premium RC it will kick an SCT into the week after next. If you buy a GSO based RC you might be fiddling with it the week after next, and the week after that, and...

The other option (which I use but isn't mine) is the Optimized Dall Kirkham. The one I use is F6.8, 14 inch, FL 2380mm. I have to like it; http://ollypenrice.smugmug.com/Other/Best-of-Les-Granges/i-zSm8HmD/0/X3/ANTENNAE%205HRS%20WEB%20CROP-X3.jpg

But make no mistake, running these big boys is not like scooping up photons in a nice little apo. There are issues. What do I own? Yup, nice little apos! Well, 140mm isn't that little but the point remains.

Olly

[glappkaeft]

Truer words have seldom been said. Our astronomy club have been running big scopes for many years. When it comes to imaging it's no joke, "big scopes = big problems to the third power". Replace problems with effort, cost etc., it's still true...