First time buyer advice, dual purpose scope

[mobiuspizza]

Hi all

I am a complete beginner and would like to buy an affordable scope for digiscoping birds and astrophtography.

I have looked at almost all telescopes under the price of £200. Here are the ones I have looked at:

Celestron C90 MAK - Problem with this is I don't have a mount and buying a mount for it will make it very expensive.

Skywatcher Mercury 705 AZ3 - Good reviews as first scope and advertised for both terrestrial and astronomy.

Skywatcher Startravel 102 AZ3 - Is it worth paying £70 extra for this compared to Mercury 705?

P.S. How easy are the skywatchers to be adapted for DSLR?

Are there any other scopes one would recommend?

Thank you very much.

[damnut]

Hi There,

Bang for buck you are better off with a dobsonian, you can get the 150p for £203.

Referring back to the scopes you have listed the 102 is a substantial refractor and will give much better views than the 70mm. Both do hower come with a fitting for connection to a dslr. You will need to get the appropriate t-ring for your camera... However neither come with a mount substantial enough to give you a stable platform for long exposure.

If you are after the images you see regularly posted on SGL then you will be disappointed.

As you say you are a beginner, start off with the Dob and then move on, best of all go to a local astro group and see what others are using.

It is also worth getting a good guide to the night sky - Pocket Sky Atlas is about £8 from Amazon and a copy of ' making every photon count' which is a great guide to astrophotography.

It is also worth downloading a copy of Stellarium, a free planetarium program which can be downloaded from here :---

http://www.stellarium.org/

In general astrophotography = large wallet.

Clear Skies

[Etoille]

Digiscoping birds with a dob might be a bit impractical though.....

Will watch this thread with interest as I have a similar dilema and was thinking about a Mak.

[ollypenrice]

I'd go for a refractor for the digiscoping. You can't use a Dob for that. If the focal length gets too long you'll struggle so I'd heistate to go for a catadioptric. The ideal choice would be the ED80 like this, but it is over budget.

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p1060.htm

It has a huge digiscoping following and is a fine deep sky imaging tool.

However, the scope is not the problem with astrophotography. The mount is the key component because you need accurate tracking for long exposures and they cost more than the scope. Also for deep sky imaging a focal ratio below F7 or, at most, F8 is what is needed. You could buy a used ED80 or small WIlliam Optics ZS66 for the budget. This would be far better than a cheap new scope.

Olly

[damnut]

Works fine on Cygnus!

But any astronomical scope is challenged for terrestial photograhy, due to size weight and image inversion both horizontally and laterally. I have an 1100mm Mak lens for terrestial very short but weighs in at 4kg! My 80-300 weighs 400g

Your exposure times in good light might be anything from .25 sec to 1/4000th. However doing a series of multi tens of minutes exposure is not going to sit well on these lower priced mounts or the cheaper achromats.

Clear skies.

[ollypenrice]

Works fine on Cygnus!

But any astronomical scope is challenged for terrestial photograhy, due to size weight and image inversion both horizontally and laterally. I have an 1100mm Mak lens for terrestial very short but weighs in at 4kg! My 80-300 weighs 400g

Your exposure times in good light might be anything from .25 sec to 1/4000th. However doing a series of multi tens of minutes exposure is not going to sit well on these lower priced mounts or the cheaper achromats.

Clear skies.

There's no horizontal inversion. That comes from the diagonal which you leave out. As for getting the picture the right way up, I won't insult anyone's intelligence by suggesting a simple method for that! Lots of stunning wildlife shots are taken with astro refractors, the downside over a lens being the lack of any kind of focus assist. But, considering the cost of a good long tele lens, an ED80 and some patience to get a focused shot seem like a great idea. Bird digiscoping with astro scopes is thriving. Have a look here, for instance; http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=176546 You don't get F2.8 but you don't pay telelens prices either.

With a 45% erecting prism you get a correct view in an astro scope for visual observing. I use our Pronto in this mode all the time. It would introduce needless glass if you imaged through the prism, though.

Olly

[Pappy Nick]

As for getting the picture the right way up, I won't insult anyone's intelligence by suggesting a simple method for that!

You just need to turn your telescope though 180 degrees don't you ???

[ollypenrice]

You just need to turn your telescope though 180 degrees don't you ???

And photograph yourself????

You do not, of course, need to do anything... though you will need an extender to come to focus and if the bird is close up you might need a couple.

Olly

[JamesM]

There is a difference in imaging solar system objects (moon and planets) using a webcam to construct a final composite image made from the best 'frames' and image faint deep sky objects (DSO's) such as galaxies and nebulae which will require an accurate expensive mount. One other consideration might be the minimum focusing distance of a scope. My other half uses a 5" Celestron XLT schmidt cassegrain to observe birds and is able to focus from a minimum of 12ft. You don't say what distances you will be digiscoping, so this might be a consideration for you if you want to image birds within a small garden.

I always recommend that anyone wanting to get into astrophotography should get hold of Steve Richards' "Making Every Photon Count"(FLO £19.95) to fully understand what kit you need and why you need to generate good consistent images that will help satisfy your expectations. It's modestly priced and will enable you to obtain a comprehensive overview that will help you understand what you getting into before buying any kit.

James

[ollypenrice]

...or better still from an ED80 on the birds. This is stunning.

http://www.image-nature.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=23147

James is right in recommending Steve's book. It's a great way to avoid costly mistakes.

Olly

[AndyH]

I used to use a 66mm ed refractor for birding. Quite superb, virtually 'colour fringing free' and a far nicer view than a small Mak(I had a stonkingly good Russian Mak, but daytime views were noticably nicer in the 66mm due to the wider field of view).

It was very similar(ie different badge)to this one........ http://www.lyraoptic.co.uk/Telescopes-Accessories.html

edit: colour fringing bothers me more on birding than astro. I used to have a 66mm petzval which was putrid for birding. Nothing worse than trying to view a hawk on the top branch of a tree, through a haze of purple.

[mobiuspizza]

Thanks for the advice. When I meant astrophotography I didn't have such a high requirement. I am happy if I can take pics of Moon or Saturn or some nebulas. Deep space observation can wait when I have more money.

The 80ED is a bit too expensive as a first scope I think.

Regarding bird watching, I think 20-50 meters range is what I am looking for. If I get MAKs, which has focal lengths of 1300mm, I think that may prove too much at the lower end of the range spectrum, is that correct?

[ollypenrice]

1300mm is pretty long and will jitter on anything but a hefty tripod.

Olly

[damnut]

Hi Mobiuspizza,

Whilst we all would love the ed scopes mentioned above, I stuck to around your budget of c£200, even the lyra optics scope is best part of £700 before a mount. So as mentioned in my first reply try to get a copy of 'making every photon count' and go to your local astro group, if its anything like ours then there is a fair old mix of astrophotographers and birders who will be able to offer sound advice and see their kit!.

For little initial outlay it is worth trying a webcam for planetary pictures.

Clear Skies.

[mobiuspizza]

Thanks for the advice damnut. I do know the pros and cons of different constructs of telescopes but finding the right balance is proven quite hard. I was about to give up when I stumpled upon the Vixen VMC110L. I think I am warming to it. It has relatively low F-ratio for a MAK design, t-threads on the assembly, flip mirror, shorter focal length 1050mm vs the 1250mm which means terrestrial digiscoping has wider FOV. The larger apecture would also help for astronomy. It is also extremely portable which I like. Being 3kg a cheapo photo tripod will suffice. The telescope itself is just under my budget. The problem is that it doesn't come with any eyepiece, so I have to shell out a bit for eyepieces.

[damnut]

Hi There,

The vixen is a nice scope, you still might find the fov quite narrow f9.4 is still a relatively slow scope.

However this mak does have the nice feature of being able to take two ep's or an ep and a camera. Just have to save up for a sturdy mount and a couple of nice eps :-).

Good Luck

[ollypenrice]

Don't forget that weight is only half the story when it comes to mount stability. The higher the magnification used the more stability you need. A meter is still quite long for digiscoping but as long as you have a remote shutter release you might be OK on a cheapo tripod. Don't choose an EP which will give too much magnification, though. On a cheapo tripod I'd guess at what, 60x, as an upper limit? Hard to say.

Olly