Initial ideas for a newbie purchase

[Smood]

Hi all,

Ok so after my intro i thought i'd setup an update thread on my thoughts for my scope when its time to buy.

In a nutshell -

-im saving till past autumn for a scope

-want to buy effectively so dont have to upgrade regularly

-size does matter

This thread is intended as a pre-buying ideas list so im quite curious to see how i'll change and fine tune my thoughts about my 'to buy' plan.

(Also im only referring to ideas for myself and items which i feel might be suitable for me so pls dont be offended if rule out perfectly good products that some members have)

There seems to be a maze of equipment around and after some hours of reading and watching youtube clips my mind is entertaining the thought of a Skywatcher Skyliner Dobsonian 250p with goto.

(at the moment.. it'll probably change as i try to figure out the pro and cons applicable to me)

So almost a grand or maybe 600 if bought used?

Hmm, well thats a start a least.

That at least gives me a benchmark to run with for now.

Im not intending to do much photography but would like the goto and auto tracking for ease of use.

All thoughts and suggestions welcome!

Peace

-Sid

[DOBBY]

Very nice choice of 'scope...( not that I'm biased)

as for 'pre-buying' a right-angle finder or Telrad finder...a sprit-level...& set of small allen keys...& try to source a power supply other than the skywatcher one.

anything else... & there will be loads of other things..will be a matter of personal choice once you get used to the 'scope & where you use it...DO keep the packaging if you intend to take it in the car anywhere...it's always handy

[John]

10" of aperture is a great choice in my opinion. A great balance of portability and serious observing potential, especially under dark skies. I'd also budget initially for Telrad finder to add to the optical finder that comes with the scope, a cheshire collimation eyepiece, a decent power supply, a red torch and a good guide to the night sky. Additional eyepieces, filters etc, etc are best (in my opinion) to follow after you have used the scope for a while as the choice in those is pretty bewildering and subject to personal preferences. You can easily spend as much as the scope has cost on a couple of eyepieces ! (although that's not really necessary of course )

[Smood]

Ok well now that i try to add costs of buying eyepieces im a bit stuck.

Is it really worth spending twice the amount on a scope just because it has goto?

Not to sure at the mo..

Surely i can find the right patch of sky by checking my night sky printout and just swing my scope around, no?

Hmm.

The savings on a manual Dob can't be ignored, especially the larger ones.

Actually can anybody give me an idea about whether they think the Flextube Skywatchers are worth the extra hundred over the fixed sized white ones?

Is it not just extra faffing about just to save a square foot of space? If anything the fixed full size white ones arguably offer the better light gathering, no?

A bit to mull over me thinks

[John]

The general view (which I agree with) seems to be that solid tubes are fine for up to 10" newtonian scopes. It's only from 12" and above that you get any advantage with truss / flex tube designs.

There is no actual weight benefit with the flextube scopes - they do collapse down smaller than the solid tube versions though.

As for GOTO, well that's a personal choice. Many people do without of course but many find it indispensable too. It does add a significant number of £'s to the purchase price of course .....

[JamesM]

On the Goto cost question, I would never want to tie any goto facility with a particular aperture of scope. So for example, I would never go for a Meade schmidt on a fork mount as this 'system' doesn't allow you to increase aperture without having to change the whole set up - the same with the proposed dobsonian above, changing the aperture will mean changing the whole set up. I would only think of having a GOTO dob/schmidt if I could have the aperture that I know I will want from the start - in otherwords, there won't be any need (cost) to change the set up. The key thing with GOTO is that it can point the scope at thousands of objects but that doesn't mean you can see them if there is insufficient aperture to resolve the object. Goto can be very accurate in finding the 'needle' in the universal haystack and importantly, very quickly. Finding objects manually relies on knowledge of where the object is - the problem is with any magnification, you discover so many more stars than appear on your chart and it is easy to loose your bearings. The Telrad and right angled finders are in my view, 'must have' pieces of kit if you want to pursue the manual method. However, they don't call it space for nothng and when you magnify the sky through any optics, you quickly discover more stars than ever appear on your chart and distances between your 'reference' stars is more difficult to judge and so it is very easy to lose your bearings. Light pollution, available observing time and deep sky imaging are some of the reasons why GOTO is popular but from a budget perspective, only makes sense if the aperture is sufficient to make the greatest use of the catalogues.

At the moment I have an NEQ6 mount to help solve the above problem because this is a system upon which I can attach any type of scope (newtonian, maksutov, schmidt and refractor) subject to maximum payload capacity. I don't image but of course the nature of this mount would help facilitate this if I changed my mind. There are free software programs like EQMOD which help facilitate the goto being connected to Stellarium to locate additional objects and to help monitor tracking accuracy, image mosiacs etc. I guess what I'm getting at here, is that I am trying to future proof my aperture needs (...aperture fever!) and also to leave my options open as to what I may wish to do in the future. I chose this particular mount as it gave me the greatest choice for the cheapest price. There are larger mounts for bigger 'toys' but they are a lot MORE expensive so the NEQ6 is as future proof you can get within a reasonable budget. There is a smaller version HEQ5 which will do the same things but with a smaller maximum payload capacity and does hold its resell value well should you want to move to the NEQ6 at a later date.

If I was to make one single but important recommendation, it would be to go along to a public viewing event organised by a local astro club or observing group to have a look through at some of this kit. Some gear can be heavy, large and awkward to carry. By actually looking through the eyepiece, you will be able to more accurately gauge how differences in aperture reveal differences in resolving both the size and detail of an object. You need to establish your own datum line as to what aperture you will need to meet your expectations. Can the scope/mount be easily transported to a dark site (if needed)? Can the setup be stored conveniently at home without taking out half the patio doors when you move it outside? Different kit has different cool down times to enable you to get the best out of them which of course will mean a longer set up time. Lastly, selecting eyepieces (which can make a lot of difference to the viewing experience) can be a tricky affair and a challenge, so please make a note of what you are looking through along with the scope to help you decide on a future combination.

I think that new people who attempt to utilise a paper based approach to kit choice can very quickly get bogged down in the stats and specifics which can make every scope the best deal to be had. Experience using them, even at public observation sessions will help sort a lot of this out for you and will help narrow down the choices - along with your budget which will be the most important.

James

[Smood]

Hi John thanks for sharing your thoughts about the flextube.

So am i right in assuming that the only advantage over the fixed size dobs is the collapsing ability to save some space?

Definatley will need to see some up close and personal..

[John]

....So am i right in assuming that the only advantage over the fixed size dobs is the collapsing ability to save some space?......

As far as I can see, yes, that it.

[Smood]

JBM1165:

'The key thing with GOTO is that it can point the scope at thousands of objects but that doesn't mean you can see them if there is insufficient aperture to resolve the object. Goto can be very accurate in finding the 'needle' in the universal haystack and importantly, very quickly. Finding objects manually relies on knowledge of where the object is - the problem is with any magnification, you discover so many more stars than appear on your chart and it is easy to loose your bearings.'

James thanks for your input and advice,

I defo intend to meet up with some forum pals from my area when the evenings start to darken up come autumn.

I think thats sound reasoning in your above thoughts there..

My issue now is wondering if the goto in a dob is worth it as its not the most accurate when compared to mounts such as yours.

Future proofing is a tricky one and i share your concerns about it.

Perhaps i should think about holding out till xmas time and get the aperature i really want - 300+

I actually thought that i'd cracked the problem of mounts by bypassing the situation and heading straight for a dob..

But the issue of reliable tracking should be addressed and there are many valid points you highlighted..

Can't be sure on my next step until i see a few different setups, and i'm really looking forward to that day..

Thanks again man

Peace

-Sid

[Smood]

@ John

Well if thats the case im seriously concerned about justifying the extra money over the fixed size white ones.

When all said n done it's just around a sq foot or so me thinks, maybe foot and a half, that u save when collapsed.

Having said that people spend big money on the Schmitt Cassy thingy bobs too.. and thats a lot to do with the size issue as well is it not?

I must say looks wise flextubes do look more impressive though, bees knees actually, but thats beside the point..

Peace

-Sid