Enceladus Dan

15 minutes ago, rickwayne said:

I should just know, after all the times I've looked at M31, which way is RA and which is DEC. And on my phone I can't analyze it. But you can. If the trailing is in the RA direction, you've got periodic error or drive train issues. Elongation in DEC, unless you're guiding,  means polar alignment problems. 

Wow, sounds so simple to diagnose when explained like that. So I opened stellarium on my phone and orientated so same as my image and moving the time moves andromeda in exactly the direction of the trail. So it’s periodic error or drive train if I’m understanding this right? 
 

this one will need to be permanently stored with other stuff learnt so far. Thank you this tip. 
 

thanks 

Danny

On my attempt at drift alignment, did I get the instructions right? Following a guide but was aimed at AZ mounts so I kind of just did what I could on my EQ Mount. 
 

thanks 

Danny

4 minutes ago, Ohgodwherediditgo said:

I have started to loop my cables around one of the RA adjustment knobs used for polar alignment just to take the weight, with enough slack of course. I'll probably get flamed for that by someone with more experience.

I’m planning to add an Aluminium bar to the top of the OTA rings for a dew heater controller and telrad to sit on. Might add a p clip to hook camera cable to and some Velcro somewhere on the Mount for the cables.  

4 minutes ago, Ohgodwherediditgo said:

I think the HEQ5 has a worm period of about 8 mins, so that would rule out periodic error if you had a half hour with good tracking. The camera causing shake would cause it consistently ( i really doubt it's that ). Maybe a cable snag ? Or rough running RA bearing ?

Thanks, next time I’m out I’ll try disengage the motors and use the slow motion controls see if it feels smooth, hope so as it’s only a few months old. Cables I use a dummy battery and the cable drops to a power pack  not tied just hanging loose not touching anything. maybe the weight of the cable I can zip tie it up loose see if helps. 
 

thanks

Danny

7 minutes ago, Dazzyt66 said:

Hey Danny, I must admit it sounds like alignment to me but I’ll let someone with greater experience guide you on that. 

5 mins unguided is expecting a lot (I’m assuming you are unguided)? I have a HEQ5 with spot on polar alignment and I only go for around 60s exposures to be sure of no trails - with UK weather I don’t want to ruin what chances we have.

I also leave a 1s delay between exposures to allow for camera shake due to the mirror even though all my imaging is done remotely.

HTH

Hello, I am unguided at the moment as I’m new to astronomy, photography and astrophotography so all a big learning curve as just started in June this year. I have the EQ5 deluxe with enhanced motors, using a 150pds. 
 

I hoped it wasn’t the alignment as most 1 mins were ok, I aim to be able to reach 3 mins max but tested to 5 to try figure out a banding issue with the Hybrid AF sensor. I was thinking of getting a 760D which shares the same sensor as my M3 but uncertain if I’ll get lines so now thinking of a 77D. 
 

thanks 

Danny

1 minute ago, ONIKKINEN said:

Are you autoguiding?

All mounts experience something called periodic error in RA where the tracking speed oscillates a bit above and under the ideal rate. Unguided exposures are limited by your RA drift rate, which varies quite a lot between different mounts.

 

Below is an example i just found online, the red line is your DEC, which in this case was spot on as it hardly moves in the long term while the blue line is the RA which is constantly in use. The steep drops and cliffs of the graph are where you experience bad subexposures, but just by pure chance you could have your exposure at the relatively even top section and not notice trailing as much. I don't know what mount (or even if it was a mount) this image is from but it gets the point across. My EQM35-PRO experiences somewhere around 8 arcseconds RMS of periodic error during one worm cycle, which is 8minutes on my model. In theory that would limit a 1 as/pixel resolution image to just 30 seconds, but in reality there are these same steep cliffs and drops in the graph, making unguided exposures not worth the effort.

How much you can get away with will depend on your mounts periodic error and the resolution you're imaging in.

I just thought of tracking and you found this wonderful info, thank you

Has tracking motors been known to cause any intermittent shake? I have the EQ 5 deluxe with enhanced dual axis motors. 
 

thanks

Danny

Hello all, 

I have been kicking myself each time I get out on a clear night as I never seem to get any longer than 30-45 seconds without star trails. On the 05th October it was a new moon and clear skies so I wanted to revisit Andromeda as my last try there was a 77% moon nearby. 
 

To give myself the best chance I tried out drift alignment. I set up as normal and pointed to a star in the south and somewhere near the celestial equator as hard with houses and street lights all around. Set my camera so the dec moved the star moved up and down. Put the star to the right side and started the exposure. 5 seconds in I moved the RA for 10 seconds so the star move left then back again ( I tried 30 seconds each way but the star left each side of the image). Repeated with a star to the East horizon ( more ENE as a tree was directly east). 
 

south

East

If I’m doing this right I should be good? But when I tried varying long test exposure in the time I had before the street lights go out I had trails at all lengths 1,2,3,4&5 mins. However I noticed the distance of the trail in 1 min makes it look like double stars next to each other and at 5 min it’s not much longer. If it was alignment shouldn’t the distance be 5x longer or thereabouts? 

1 min - from actual shoot after lights went out with good stars 35 of the 60 taken were like this. 

1 min - from test before with trails

5 mins - from before with trails

my other thoughts were ground shaking from me, so I WiFi remote controlled the Eos M3 from my phone indoors with the same result. This left me with wind? To me it seems pretty calm, or something in the camera.

I thought a mirrorless camera would have less shake from the shutter than a DSLR but on looking into how the shutter works ( I was clueless) I learned the shutter closes as the exposure starts then opens again, at the end of the exposure it closes again before opening ready for the next image. 
 

I watched a slow mo video on YouTube and it looks quite aggressive when it slams shut just as the exposure starts. Could this be my problem? I’ve read they have 1 electronic shutter and 1 mechanical and some newer models allow the electronic opening shutter to be held open for silent (shake free) images. Maybe the mechanical one slamming shut before the image is the cause. 
 

Or is there something else I should look into as loosing almost 50% of images is frustrating. 
 

thanks

Danny

14 minutes ago, Alien 13 said:

I had the 650D which indeed had the hybrid sensor and did have banding under certain conditions, as all the following series were similar I moved to the 80D which has dual pixel AF instead as does the 60/70D models.

Alan

Thank you Alan,

good to know it’s not an issue with the dual pixel AF models, I might look into cameras with this sensor like the 60/70/80D you mention. 

Hello again, 

so I had a night of clear skies, while waiting for 1am (when the street lights at the bottom of the garden go out) I thought I would try to make these mysterious bands appear. I’ve included pictures from forums talking of this issue. The top one is from when I was looking to see if the 760D is good for astrophotography and they were calling it banding. The conclusion is it’s the hybrid AF sensor causing the issue. Now this shows how little I know about photography I assumed it was some sort of sensor lines in front of the cmos sensor blocking some of the light. The bottom picture is from another forum I found which explained a little more and its 7 rows of pixels used to check AF.

this is different to the typical banding I see people talk about on here which is corrected in post processing, I’m not to great at the processing yet and don’t like the thought of trying to remove these lines. 
 

So back to me trying to recreate these lines on my Canon M3, I took 1,2,3,4 & 5 min exposures thinking it could be the long exposure or sensor temperature. I played with different ISO settings and finally taking pictures in and out of focus. But I couldn’t get these lines to appear. But nothing. The following day to thought more about it and will next try taking an exposure with the continuous AF setting on as I keep all AF, NR, and stability settings off, but I wonder if this is what the cause is. If it’s on the camera is trying to use these rows to check the AF for the whole exposure? 
 

Although I had not found out the cause of these bands I have realised something else, I have only been doing 30-45 second exposures because I thought my polar alignment was bad, but from 1 min to 5 mins the trailing is not that much worse, also the 5 min exposure trails in two directions as if the camera had shook. Last time I photographed Andromeda I took 45 seconds and quiet a lot of exposure were not used because of trails I put this down to me walking on the grass near the telescope while it’s was taking photos. This time I used the patio and stood back on the grass to remove any shake caused by me. 
 

so I looked into camera shake and have learned a lot about the shutters, I never know so much went on inside a camera. I pictured it to be like the iris in a lens quickly opening and closing. I was especially shocked that there was more movements in a mirrorless camera than a DSLR, the mirrorless shutter is open by default then closes, exposure starts, Shutter opens, exposure ends the shutter closes and then opens again ready to repeat over and over. I believe my trails and from the quick closure and opening of the shutter just as the exposure starts, Some newer models can hold open the shutter and only close as it ends. 
 

So now my trail of thought over the choice of camera is much wider, I think for simplicity I’ll go for the 600d get it modified and carry on my learning journey, the 760D is still unclear if i get one will have those lines or not. My other thought was to go for a slightly rough round the edges but good working order 6D with low shutter count for the same price as a an excellent condition 760D. Going full frame will also widen my FOV as andromeda and Great Orion fill my crop sensor. 

Thanks

Danny

This is a minefield by the sounds of it, never know if the camera I get will have it or not.

From what I read it sounded like the cause was the hybrid sensor but canon website says that started with the 650D. 

I was skeptical as my M3 has the hybrid cos af iii sensor and I've seen no banding. Last night I aimed it to a dark corner with the lights off when I was at work. I did  five exposures at each of 3,4,5 mins with different iso,s none had any banding. 

I'm hoping to get clear skies this week so will try and get longer subs on andromeda or pleiades. My best so far is 45 seconds so need to nail my alignment. 

Thanks for the updates on 600d.

Danny

Thanks, I’ll push my M3 and see if it happens but I might have to play safe with a 600D. 
 

thanks

Danny

Hello All, 

I already have a canon eos M3 which I’m using to learn the ropes with my 150pds. I was looking at the modified DSLR route and was hoping to get a 760D because it’s similar in specs to the M3 and send it for modification. I came across quite a few posts with people saying about banding on the 760D. From what I can tell it’s the Hybrid AF III sensor causing the issue. 
 

ive seen some beautiful Astro pics on astrobin so it isn’t impossible, also the M3 has the same Hybrid AF III sensor and I haven’t seen any banding in my pictures so far. This could be due to only achieving 1 min subs so far and maybe longer ones will bring out the banding. When the good old British weather clears I plan to take 2,3,4 & 5 min subs, knowing it will trail just to see if any bands appear. 

does anyone know if banding will always show or is it certain situations that make them happen? I don’t want to go for the 760D to find out I need to learn more processing to get round them as I’m just working out the basics with processing.
 

On the other hand I can go for the 600D which is cheaper and has a good reputation for astrophotography. But I don’t want to miss out on going newer with lower read noise and digic 6 etc if banding can be avoided on the 760D. 
 

hopefully soon I’ll have some (blurry) long exposures on my M3 just to see if the length of time make any bands appear. 
 

thanks in advance for any tips or personal experience with the 760D. 
 

Danny

Hello, I just started making a storage case from an old flight case I had in the loft, it used to have my miniature model paints in it. I got some shadow foam to cut and organise inside. 

before getting the foam I had thought of getting a case on ebay for £20 which had a cubed pluckable  foam inside. But decided for the same cost shadow foam in my old case would look better. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174212016185

I hope this helps. 

Danny

Hello, I’m pretty new and only in my first month of astronomy,  i came here also for advice on Jupiter. I fear my issue is my camera, so was looking for peoples advice in cheapish (£60-100) 1.25” options. 
 

I took this single picture on Friday 16th July on my SW150Pds with a Baader Hyperion 5mm EP in projection using the m43/m42 thread to my EOS M3 cameras t ring. My settings were ISO 320 and exposure was 1/5 of a second. Looking online I found a chart for iso to gain and my iso would be similar to 0db gain. 

I don’t really know how to use ccd cameras as not tried them yet, I was reading that taking a video (AVI) is best and using PIPP to split it into individual frames ready to stack. Which is why I wondered about cheapish planetary camera as I read that DSLR record compressed video. 

I hope someone with more experience and used your camera comes along soon with better advice, I will just tag along and learn more reading any replies you get. 
 

clear skies and good luck. 

so i had a quick go at stacking the 40 frames of both the ring nebula and Hercules cluster. I will defiantly get out and try again with the alignment as the 40x15 sec exposures were all showing signs of trails. 

but while its cloudy and wet outside i have had some practice at processing (just levels and curves at this stage)  

Also I took 40 frames of each but didn't stack due to the bad alignment. I might have a go later even though it was bad just for practice. 

I got the 150PDS OTA with a EQ5 mount with the enhanced tracking motors (Non goto ) the photos were taken with an eos M3 camera in prime. 
 

I did get a baader Hyperion 5mm and a 2” x2 Barlow for ep projection on planets but not tried that yet. I tried the Barlow in prime with the t ring but I can’t get focus. Trying it in daylight and I get a clear image if I extend the Barlow out the focuser by 20mm and use the supplied extender after the Barlow before the t ring. So I’m going to get some stopping rings. Maybe get a bigger image of the ring nebula in prime focus etc. 
 

I’ll be trying my setup again soon and hopefully get the alignment right. 

My delivery came on the 8th June and as advertised on the box it came with clouds. But I had the opertunity to try it out on the 12th and 13th. The skies were crystal clear the only issue was my location. It was very limited as I was working, the opertunity to test it out and learn how to use it was here. 

The location has at best some servere lighting issues. 

I set my targets high in the sky to reduce the light as much as possible to I chose 

1. Vega, to collimate my guide scope. 

2. Epsilon Lyra, to try and photograph the split.

3. Ring nebula and 4. the Hercules cluster. 

Polar alignment went well, took me about 20 minutes with all the back and forth and crooked neck. I aimed it to vega to adjust the guide scope and wow...... with only the 28mm EP it looks amazing I wasn't expecting diffraction spikes visually I thought it was when imaging. 

So I took the opertunity to grab a few photos. Just to test my alignment, 30 seconds check. Then I thought how about 1 min... check. I was able to do 1 min 30 OK but above was leaving traces. I was only expecting 30 seconds on my first try. 

I moved over to find Epsilon, easy right it's just next door. Noooooo I was lost and could not work out which was I was going. How could this be I looking right up at it. Then it clicked the guide scope is inverted I was going the wrong way. 

I did try to locate the ring nebula but failed and was out of time before I had to work again. 

Night 2.

having hit the books (forums) I thought I would try the setting circles. They had baffled me when I put the tripod together as the RA was locked and didn't rotate. Taking off the grub screw allowed it to rotate but it dropped down because there was a gap between it and the polar scope date time scale which also spun and wasn't fixed to the polar scope. How can you use them if the drift and flop around. 

Reassured by my reading that all I need to do is centre on known star (vega again) turn dials to the known RA and Dec readings. Then move to the RA and Dec readings of the new target.......  failed. I don't know what went wrong, I think I need to read up more as I did not understand how the RA is turning with the tracking motor yet the reading for the star remains the same. So I went back to point aim and try to spot something on the screen that's familiar. With a lot of swaying back and forth taking 30 second exposures (of which I saw traces on the stars) I finally found it, this blue halo just popped onto the camera screen. I never thought at 30 seconds something so small in the frame would show up in 1 picture. 

Reducing the time to 15 seconds almost got rid of the tracking error. Can't believe my first go I could do 1 min 30 yet when I find my target I messed it up. 

I did manage to find hercules too before my break ended, but I definitely need to practice star hopping more.

I believe my alignment error was I used the wrong star. Before taking the tripod down I looked in the polarscope and the star had moved from top centre and was outside the circle to the right, I believe from what I've seen polaris moves anticlockwise. Lesson learned be extra carefull that I am looking at polaris. 

Regards

Danny

15 hours ago, alacant said:

IMO, the best way to begin astro imaging. Add an equally economical Takumar or Zeiss 135mm to complete the outfit. Track on your eq5 for some spectacular images.

I'd put good money on you using the old lenses just as much, if not more than the 150;)

Great moon BTW.

Cheers

Thanks, I tried to follow a YouTube tutorial but was lost with GIMP the video used PS and I couldn't find relative tools for some parts so just did what I could. 

I was amazed by the wavelets in registax, must be some little wizzards in there as what I did to the picture was magical. Brought out detail I couldn't see. 

I have a 200mm auto optimax I picked up for £11 and my eyes on another which is a 28mm under £10. 

Just waiting on my delivery and I'll be in my element with sturdy tracked mount. 

Files Changed now, Thank You.

thanks @Alien 13 that makes sense. 

Also How do i add images inside my post rather than an attachment needing downloaded by those who want to see it?

Thanks

Hello, 

I'm new to both Astronomy and Photography, In January I decided to purchase my first Telescope, a SW 150PDS with EQ5 Deluxe mount and also went for the enhanced dual axis motors. Although its not here yet due to Covid and supply issues i wanted to take a picture of the May super moon (unfortunately in the UK we didn't see the blood moon). so I got an old M42 lens on eBay cheap, a soligor 400mm @£30. 

The weather wasn't great I had cloud until about midnight when it was a little hazy. I thought it would make a good picture anyway as I could see the detail on the moon with a halo with my eyes. by the time I put the camera out it had actually almost completely cleared. my focus was a little off as it was hard to turn the focus ring while watching the live view on a wobbly camera tripod. I'm sure when I use just camera and lens on the EQ5 it will be more solid and shake less as I try and focus.

I only took 22 frames by the time the moon had moved behind trees and Converted them to TIFF in PIPP, Stacked them in Registax which chose 16 frames. to Process it I used GIMP but as a novice I'm not really sure how to use it properly. 

here is what I managed to get as a single frame and the finished Image. I was amazed at how much I got with out a mount and telescope and now soooooo eager to try again when it arrives after looking at other pictures on here taken with Telescopes. I will keep trying this 400mm lens because i have a 1.6 crop sensor Andromeda wont fit in 1 frame on the 150PDS so I plan to use the lens rather than a focal reducer to begin with. 

any tips and advice will be much appreciated especially with GIMP. 

On 28/12/2020 at 17:32, vlaiv said:Imagine you want to split scope use between visual and astrophotography and express that split in percents.

If those two are equally important to you, you would assign 50% to each. Just imagine any numbers that come to mind. If astrophotography has more than 5% - get EQ5 mount.

I know that people say that you can image with EQ3 but just because something can be done (by few people) - does not mean you want to do it on regular basis.

Even for purely visual - EQ5 mount is better choice for 150P/PDS type scope.

If you decided on EQ5 because of AP being more than 5% - then get 150PDS.

I think that you will be able to reach focus with DSLR and regular 150P, however 150PDS is astrophotography oriented version for a reason. It is not just position of the focus plane, it is also - dual speed focuser. At F/5 ability to focus precisely is important.

Quality of focuser is also important - you don't want wobbly focuser where camera will tilt under its own weight and will change tilt depending where the scope is pointing (gravity always points down regardless of the pointing of the tube).

Do keep in mind that EQ5 deluxe version is manual tracking mount and you want to add tracking motor to it, so that is not the final cost of the mount for imaging. You'll also want to add coma corrector at some point - factor that into account.

In any case - I think your choice is very good one - probably one of few telescopes that will do it all - enable both visual and AP, for both planets and deep sky objects, but do seriously consider bigger mount.

Thank you for the quick reply, 

I plan on getting the enhanced dual axis motors, I thought it was worth the little extra money for the options of sidereal, lunar and solar speeds. I think I’ve worked out my confusion over the dual-fit to dual-speed. Flo describes the dual-fit as also being 1:10 in the kit but not on the OTA so I think it’s a typo in the kits description. Therefore if I go for the 150p I would most likely fit the dual speed upgrade kit. 
 

As for the mount I do agree the EQ5 is my best choice I’m just debating getting the 150p kit with EQ3-2 to start with while utilising the £40 saving to offset the loss when I sell and upgrade to the EQ5. This meaning I can play sooner as I just spent £300 on a camera lol. 
 

I know either way I’m looking at not much change from £1000 buy the time I’m set, then I will probably be looking for my next piece of equipment to compliment it. 
 

it’s reassuring you also think my M3 will achieve prime focus on the 150p. 
 

thanks.