Karen Johnson

After 6 months of research, getting help from members, getting my kit together, learning how to post process, I FINALLY got to do my first shoot this week and this is the result.  
 

Skywatcher ED80, Canon EOS 450d, modded with light pollution filter, EQ3 mount, using APT to control camera.  15 exposures of 120 sec, ISO 1600, 10 darks then the camera battery died!  Here it is, M81 and M82.  I think it is a bit noisy so next time will try ISO 800, also need to remove frame that had satellite trails.   Could not have done it without support from here and the lovely guy I bought my telescope from.  Next step, buy a dummy battery with usb power for camera.

Hi, it turned out to be the mount controller.  Bought a new one and all is good, oh, apart from the fact that it’s either bitterly cold and cloudy so no chance to use it yet!

Yesterday, I tried to update the firmware for my V4 hand controller and the mount controller - these are two separate items on the  EQ3 mount.  Updates of both failed.  Initially, the synscan firmware loader and motor controller firmware loader both recognised the HC and the MC because I was able to get details of the current firmware.  I hope I have these in the right order.... Hand controller 04.37.03, Mount controller hardware 4.16, firmware 4.37, database 4.02.  I started with MC, clicked the 'update' button and got the message 'Update failed'.  Though maybe I should have started with the HC so did the same thing, got the same response.  Went back to try the MC and this time, the firmware loader did not recognise the mount but said they update was ready to run, so clicked update but again, it failed.  Decided to stick with the current firmware, disconnected HC from the computer, turned it on and after the Initialising message on the HC, got the dreaded message, 'Caution - Both Axes No Response'

I've googled this and found various posts on this site and Cloudy Nights, identifying various issues from failure of cables, low voltage, failure of components from capacitors to IC's and so have tried to work through identifying where the issue may be.  Have checked all the pins on all the cables with a meter and there does not appear to be anything wrong with the cables.  On hitting 'enter' on the HC, I get 'SynScan version 04.37.03' and I can keep entering through and setting lat/long, time etc but then get to the Set up screen, no option to slew the mount.  Took both units apart but could not seen any obvious signs of damage to components but here ends my electronics expertise, only know the words because I used to be married to an electronics engineer, (where is one when you need one!!).

To check out whether there is an issue with the HC, I've now downloaded Ascom Platform 6 and EQMod, followed the tutorial by Kayron Mercieca that one of the fellow SGL members recommended, and attempted to set things up.  Connected the MC to my laptop with a Lynx Astro USB EQ Direct cable, identified the Com Port (4 in my case) and worked through the turorial to clicking 'ASCOM Connect' in the EQASCOM toolbox.  At this point, the EQMod window opens and in the Mount Position window, I get 'Connect Error Timeout'.  According to Kayron, this could be due to insufficient voltage from the power supply.  Checked the mains output through the adaptor and got 11.9v, then went through the same with my Skywatcher Power Station, which has an output of 13.4v but still got the same 'Connect Error Timeout' message so it seems that insufficent power is not the issue.

I am thinking that the motor controller has failed in some way but before I shell out £100 for a new one, just want to check that I have not missed something.  I bought the rig second hand so no warranty, it was working when I first got it as I set everything up and used the hand controller to slew the mount so I am guessing that somehow, my attempt to update the firmware has caused some kind of issue.

Based on what I have worked through and the results I am getting, can anyone add anything, suggestions on what else I could try?  Appreciate any help.

thanks, Karen

13 hours ago, DaveL59 said:

ahhh nearing the top of that slippery slope now then, astrophotography 😮 

What scope are you getting as for imaging the mount is critical for stability?

Ah yes, looking back the EQ3 pro, should be ok to start off with given the scope chosen.

After much to-ing  and fro-ing, I bought a Skywatcher Equinox ED80 Apo.  Purchased second hand from another Kentish Dave.  It comes with an electric focused and HitecAstro controller, WO rings and dovetail.  It was looking into what the electric focuser did that started to lead me down the path of computer control. As far as weight goes, will be fine on my mount and I can’t wait to pick it up especially as Dave 2 is going to set it up on the night and give me an overview on how to use it all.  Will be looking for the first clear night after lockdown ends.

1 hour ago, Mick J said:

Not in the book Karen,  APT forum and GitHub  possibly This      Don't know if this is helpful or a diversion.

Canon 450D modified is good, my lad & I modified one a few years ago strangely he has just started using it again with a 135mm Samyang.

Well I’ve read all through that Mick and it sounds too technical for me so I will run with the Canon for now but it’s good to see that there are solutions out there for Sony cameras.

22 minutes ago, Mick J said:

Not in the book Karen,  APT forum and GitHub  possibly This      Don't know if this is helpful or a diversion.

Canon 450D modified is good, my lad & I modified one a few years ago strangely he has just started using it again with a 135mm Samyang.

Probably a diversion but I am easily diverted 😆 

1 minute ago, DaveL59 said:

ahh it's an SLT-A77-ii not the A7 🙂

I'm in Chatham area not far off the M2, it's reasonably dark in the back garden tho being up a hill and woodland around, tho you can't escape the sky glow and so far this year it doesn't seem as dark up there as it used to be.

Lucky you, I’m in Cuxton, junction 2 of the M2, right on the river (literally as I live on a boat) with the M2 road bridge and Eurostar viaduct all lit up, if that wasn't bad enough, have the glow from the leisure park nearby.  Will have to travel each time I want to do any photography I think.

4 hours ago, DaveL59 said:

may well do the same as I've now committed on an A77ii, once it arrives and I've had a chance to test it out I'll have a look for his guide as I see he has one for this model too.

Excellent, love to hear how you get on with the A7.  Whereabouts in Kent are you Dave?  Do you have dark skies in your area?

5 hours ago, Mick J said:

Thanks Karen, I now have that.

I have seen references to a Sony Ascom driver that may work with APT and Sharpcap, may be worth a search.

Mick, can you tell me which chapter in the book refers to that?  On another note, I picked up a Canon 450d on eBay today for £105, already astromodded and it comes with a t ring!  At least that gives me something to get going with, of course, I still need a the telescope which I will be picking up once lockdown ends.

10 minutes ago, Mick J said:

I picked up a used A6000 on eBay, still coming to terms with it.  Far to many options and buttons, I updated the camera to V3.21 and can confirm using imaging edge no long exposure NR.  Quite impressed with imaging edge but have not used the camera for any astro, lens or telescope. 

Stick with it, they are great little cameras but the menu format sucks!  I purchased a great book by David Busch.  He has written a series of guides for using Sony A series right from out of the box through and set up to working through every menu option.  If he does a guide for the A6000, well worth the money.  He gives recommendations on which settings to use and explains what they do far better than the Sony provided guide does.  I recommend it.

22 minutes ago, Mick J said:

There is an old thread on the A5000, 

The last few posts on page 3 may be helpful, it may depend on model and having the latest software on the camera.

Hi

Not an issue for the A6500 as you can turn long exposure NR off fortunately but thanks for raising this, I did find this post previously when I was searching back posts for any commentary on Sony cameras.

2 hours ago, DaveL59 said:

thanks Karen, nice to know they've fixed it. Nikon apparently used to suffer the same. I guess its a case of try it and see with regards to your A6500. For me the A7iii will be way above budget and I'm unconvinced on the compact-style mirrorless models as noted in another thread in the non-astro section where I was considering an A700. Am more leaning toward an A77 or A77ii now but yet to tap the buy button.

For remote control have you tried Sony's Imaging Edge suite? I believe the A6500 should support live view on the PC when USB tethered as should the 77ii
https://support.d-imaging.sony.co.jp/app/imagingedge/en/devices/#emount

Smartphone app tho may well be more limited, for the 77ii it seems to act as a remote shutter release and not much more which is a pity.

Hi Dave.  I’ve tested the Sony Imaging Edge suite and it’s capability depends on the camera.  For me, it controls the shutter speed up to 30 secs, you can adjust aperture, white balance, auto focus, shooting mode an ISO but the biggest option missing is to be able to programme a shutter time when using Bulb.  I can set it up to take multiple exposures with a specified interval between them but if you want to do anything longer than 30 secs you have to use an intervalometer and herein lies the rub, the A6500 has one mini USB port so you can only have one accessory plugged in at a time, so, I can start off with the computer connected and use the screen to take a high ISO test shot to check framing, then set the focus but then I would have to disconnect the computer and plug in the intervalometer to take my multiple 120sec subs (as an example).  
 

Have made the decision to keep my beloved Sony for my daytime landscape photography and buy a used Canon for astro which I will get modded, that way I get the best of both worlds and can play with software as I do enjoy the technical side of photography. 

11 hours ago, DaveL59 said:

Hi Karen

I've not tried with a camera as yet but I've been researching a new DSLR body and looking at Sony as existing gear was Minolta film so I wanted compatibility with the lenses I have. While trawling about I came across this

https://petapixel.com/2017/05/04/star-eater-issue-no-longer-recommend-sony-cameras-astrophotography/

Now I don't plan on doing much via the scope but might want to play a little so that rules out the mirrorless models to me, at least if you want 30s or longer exposures. Others may have already used this model tho and have different reports, worth posting which firmware yours has in case that gives any more info.

Hi Dave

https://petapixel.com/2018/06/08/sonys-star-eater-problem-has-been-defeated-in-the-a7-iii/

Update link above.

There are quite a few posts about how this issue has been ‘fixed’ so I don’t believe it is as bad as it sounds but it would be interesting to hear from some current Sony users on the forum about this 

Is there any way of controlling the Sony with computer software for astro imaging?  Interested to learn if others have a a Sony A6500 and how they use it.  I am about to take delivery of an ED80 for use on a SW EQ3 Pro mount and am looking at whether my existing camera is up to the job or whether I should get a Canon dslr for astro work.    Thanks. 

I’m getting frustrated!  After taking advice I had decided on a SW Explorer 130PDS to go on my EQ3 Goto mount and get started on my new astrophotography hobby. This scope would also be good for viewing.  Problem is, the lack of availability both new and used.  OK, I can buy new on eBay for £299 but that’s just ridiculous when the normal price is around £180.

So, perhaps a rethink is in order. I’ve found a Primaluce 72 ED (which may or may not still be available) in the SGL for sale forum and a Williams Optics ZS80 EDll on Astrobuysell, both around £330.  I know nothing about either.

I would like to view planets, clusters and photograph things like Andromeda and similar and it needs to be light enough to go with EQ3 mount..

I’ve learnt that Apo scopes are better for AP and of course more expensive but I’m getting fed-up of not being able to get started with anything.  So, thoughts?

thanks

I am hoping to bid on a used Explorer 130 PDS OTA with no finderscope.  I know that the OTA usually comes with a SW 6x30 finderscope.  Now comes the stupid question, as I will be using it on an EQ3 Pro GOTO mount, do I need a finderscope, what would I use it for?  I’m assuming that once I have done the polar alignment with the mount, I will be using the Goto facility to find things.
 

thanks 

Can I just say, whilst I probably understand about 10% of this post, it’s been absolutely fascinating to read and brightened up a dull afternoon.  Just a shame the originator never did share what spooked him so much.

2 hours ago, Louis D said:

To nicely frame the moon, you'll want somewhere around a 1 degree true field of view eyepiece since the moon is 1/2 degree across.  I would probably recommend a BST Starguider for your rather demanding on eyepieces f/5 reflector.  Since these eyepieces are 60 degrees apparent field of view, this equates to needing 60x in power (60degrees/60x=1 degree).  Given your scope's 650mm focal length, this would equate to 650mm/60x=10.8mm.  The closest available focal length would be 12mm for 650mm/12mm=54x.  This would also be a useful power for looking at many open clusters and larger nebula as well as for solar viewing with a full aperture solar filter.

Now, to get better, close-up views, I would recommend jumping up to the 5mm Starguider for 650mm/5mm=130x.  You would still have a very reasonable 1mm exit pupil (eyepiece focal length/scope focal ratio=exit pupil).  Exit pupil is how big a circle of light is coming out of the eyepiece and into your eye.  Below about 0.7mm and floaters can start to be an issue.  This power would also be useful for looking at brighter nebula, planetary nebula, and planets themselves.

Thanks Louis, that’s very helpful, I did find some older threads eventually after much searching and these eyepieces were recommended by others so I shall take your advice.  Is there any benefit to me buying a Barlow 2x to go with these do you think?

I am about to purchase my first telescope, SkyWatcher Explorer 130P DS, mainly for astrophotography but also viewing.  It comes with a 28mm eyepiece.  I’ve been trying to find out what size eyepieces I need for viewing the moon, other planets and star fields.  There is loads of info out there if you understand it but I am a little lost.  Any 130 P DS users out there that could share their recommendations?

13 hours ago, happy-kat said:

Stargazine episode 18 video could be useful to watch, have a look in the StargaZine folder.

Thanks, I shall take a look though sadly, the holiday is on hold, woke up to the Covid news this morning and the potential national lockdown, just my luck!

10 hours ago, gilesco said:

M31 was my first target, and the night went awful - it was freezing January - I was just unable to get my guiding to work, and in the end I just pointed the scope at M31 and took a bunch of 30s exposures without guiding, hoping that tracking was in the right place. Then I packed up my kit, and went to bed, thinking that I was just in over my head on all this stuff and I would never get things working.

I looked at the exposures the next day, and didn't really have any idea of what to do, and couldn't really get anything out of them.

Near the end of winter, I went to the Astrofest in London, and spoke briefly with one of the exhibitors who was demo'ing AstroPixelProcessor (APP). So when I got home I gave the free-trial a go. The result is still awful, but I was really proud of it at the time, and it's my first astro photo, so I keep it around:

If I manage anything like that I will be over the moon!    I don’t have guiding capability, am starting simple so I will also be doing the ‘point and shoot’ and letting the Star Adventurer to track.  I’m going to download DSS and stack my images in that (she said knowingly) and then process in Photoshop.  Have a book, watched tutorials, how hard can it be?  I’m kidding, I know it will be a challenge for me but I do love a challenge!

10 hours ago, happy-kat said:

You'll best item will be a means to remote trigger your camera, either onboard time lapse or intervalometer or similar.

Thanks, I have a Pluto trigger which should do the job,mit doubles up as an interval omelet amongst other things but if that doesn’t work I can let the Star Adventurer control the camera and trigger it.

4 hours ago, rickwayne said:

To play around with focal lengths and deep-sky objects, you could go to telescopius.com -- that will allow you to previsualize what a target will look like for a given sensor size and focal length. Or you can download Stellarium (free), and set it up to do the same thing. Planetarium apps like Stellarium are also great to help you find the objects in the sky, it's available for phones as well as for computers.

For Andromeda, you'll definitely want the long end on the zoom. Here's a screenshot out of Stellarium showing the galaxy and a 300mm focal length on an APS-C sensor.

 

If you get a chance, play around with the mount and your camera beforehand, you'll want to minimize your "fiddle time" in the dark and also should get an idea of what's practical for exposures. For example this is a 500mm lens, APS-C (image is cropped) on a simple camera tracker (iOptron SkyTracker). It won't win Astronomy Picture of The Day but for one of my first ones, I was pretty pleased! These were two-minute exposures on an f/8 mirror lens, so I had to process them with a pretty heavy hand to get the details out of the data.

You will have to focus manually -- your camera will almost certainly refuse to autofocus on a starry sky. Magnify the live view by a bunch and you should be OK.

Note that that image is composed of 19 frames of the same thing, "stacked" using software like Deep Sky Stacker (Photoshop also has a very basic mechanism for doing this via setting the stacking method for a Smart Object). Without going into brain-numbing detail (references available upon request though!), taking a whole bunch of short exposures allows the software to stack up the exposures as if it were one long one. Once you have the images captured, I for one would be delighted to help you through the processing part. 19 two-minute images is actually pretty short, but a total exposure time of half an hour to an hour should let you get something pretty good out of a bright object like M31.

At a shorter focal length, the left end of Orion's Belt has some truly wonderful molecular clouds just jumping with color. Again, this is not anything to submit for prizes, but I did it with a simple 50mm lens on my APS-C camera and an electronic widget that simulates a tracking mount (sorry, only Pentax cameras have it!).

The 12mm should let you get some really stunning images of the Milky Way. The Lonely Speck tutorials on the Milky Way got me started, he has a 5-minute video on learning to shoot the MW, and the Astrophotography 101 series goes into a little more depth.

One last tip, on exposure: Don't be disappointed if what comes up on your camera screen doesn't look like much. You'll need to enhance the contrast pretty hard (stretching), and stacking helps you do that without so much noise. However, do examine the histogram on a test shot. Since most of an astrophoto is dark sky, the biggest peak will be from the sky background. You want that to be somewhere in the range of 1/4 to 1/3 of the way from the left, but at a minimum it should be mostly clear of the left side (not black-clipped).

Welcome, and please don't mind if I'm a little envious. I wish you joy in the journey!

 

Thanks so much for this detailed response.  Stellarium download is on my to do list, I saw a blog that demonstrated how to use it to visualise the shot so will do that today.  I’ve also been watching loads of tutorials on processing, though it better to know what I was getting into before I got into it haha.  Have also purchased Digital SLE Astrophotography by Michael Covington, a little light holiday reading.  I’m keeping my expectations low as to what I see in the viewfinder, funnily enough, I’m not too worried about the techie bit and the processing, just finding the right spot to point at!  Appreciate your offer of help with processing and will be sure to reach out if I get stuck, either way, will post the resulting image.  Thanks again

11 minutes ago, gilesco said:

I would kind of think I'd leave M45 until I had a good grasp of things, it was my second or third target for AP. I will probably return to it again as it deserves a second go. M31 remains a first target in my view, only to be returned to once you've perfected things, and found out how to avoid washing it out too much.

OK, which lens would you recommend I use for M31?  Would this also need 60sec subs?  Always good to have choices.  Thanks

8 minutes ago, Andy R said:

M45 The Pleiades, easy to see and frame in the view finder, 60 second subs so no guiding required. Lovely blue grey nebulae in front of the cluster. Nice object to practice your processing on too.

Hope you have the weather for it👍

 

Thanks Andy, would I use the wide angle or the zoom lens to capture that?