eikie

On 08/02/2020 at 09:58, tooth_dr said:

 

Let us know how you get on. 

Well, you were right.

Just tried aiming and focussing on a house some distance away and I was able to get focus (more or less).

So I am confident next time I can use the guidecam as intended...

1 hour ago, tooth_dr said:

A picture would have saved you a lot of trouble as the spacer was your problem and we would have picked up on that.

There is no need to wait, you can (and should) get it to close focus during the day. Simple point the finderscope (detached from telescope if easier) at a distant object e.g. trees or house and get it focused.  Then at night you will be very close to the desired focus position. 
 

Let us know how you get on. 

Lesson leared, a picture is worth more than..

I'll try this as soon as possible, thanks all for the input...

10 hours ago, tooth_dr said:

Please post photos of the camera end side on. My 120MM is touching the metal of the finder.

I might have made a couple of mistakes.

Firstly, the cam is a 120mm MINI, that might be a different one you have?

Secondly, when I looked at it this morning, I noticed a piece of "tubing", which came with the cam could be broken down in two parts.

It was just screwed together so tightly, I thought it was just 1 piece.

Because of this I am able to reduce the distance between the cam and the front lens by 1 to 2 cm. Hopefully that might be it.

First picture is how I had it yesterday night, second picture is of the tube broken down in three parts (left is the part with a piece of glass to project the sensor, middle and right is the broken down tube which I thought to be one piece).

Last photo is of the cam now attached with only the glass protector and the small ring from the tube. Can't connect the cam without those two.

Hopefully the 1,5 cm I lost is enough to get it in focus now, but with that storm and subsequent bad weather coming, I won't find out for a long time..

4 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

Please post photos of the camera end side on. My 120MM is touching the metal of the finder.

I will, but it is going to be tomorrow.. Thanks in advance.

1 hour ago, TerryMcK said:

I have exactly the same setup. Remove the focus ring and screw on the lens again. Then screw the lens in until around 4mm of thread is showing and you will be nearly there. Focus is only a hair around this area and you may find no more than half a turn or so gets you in focus. My scope is the 9x50 straight through finder scope which has a 180mm focal length. There is another finderscope by skywatcher which carries the diagonal and that is much shorter. That one will NOT work with the C adapter as the focal length is too short.

Thanks, I will try later tonight. I do have the same finder scope, if you have it working, I should be able too..

--EDIT--

Well, I just can't get it in focus. Either I did something wrong when assembling it, or in the software, but the moon remains a vague light blob, no matter how much and in what direction I turn the main lens.

Stars are completely invisible.

Well, beautiful clear skies so out I went and whatever I do, I can not get my 9x50 scope plus asi 120mm focused. 

Removed the rocking ring, twisted the lens fully in and out, but no focus...

Nobody who had the same setup? Am at my wits end, I must be missing something....

For my evostar 80ed I want to use the finderscope as a guidescope.

For this I bought a ASI 120mm mini and a Skywatcher 9x50 Finder to C Adapter

However, after pointing it at the moon, I found out I couldn't get it in focus.

When using sharpcap, the resulting image did show a vague outline of the edge of the moon, but clearly out of focus.

I know you can turn the ring on the 9x50 finderscope and thereafter turn the entire front lens, but clearly not far enough (tried Both ways).

Anyone using the same setup who can give me some pointers?

Aviation is paying my (just started) astronomy hobby....

19 minutes ago, scitmon said:

No I was mistaken with my link earlier sorry... the 48mm ring adapter is for attaching to the skywatcher reducer/flattener.  What you need is a t ring such as https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adapters/t-rings.html (perhaps email FLO to make doubly sure).  This is what I have which I know works: https://www.opticron.co.uk/our-products/telephotography-and-digiscoping/t-mounts/t-mount--canon-eos

Thanks, I'll look into that one...

44 minutes ago, scitmon said:

I think you probably need the extension tube too, which you should have got with it like me and others:

If not, perhaps using your using your diagonal would work?

I did find that adapter, so only a m48 ring for my camera?

3 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

I'm a tad surprised the scope didn't come with the necessary adapters, including the 50mm extension piece (2nd from left). Are you sure it's not in the box somewhere? 🙂 

 

 

Just checked and it was included. So that's 1 piece of the puzzle I allready have...

53 minutes ago, Ronclarke said:

The Altair Astro 0.8 Flattener/Reducer is made for the ED80, I've used one for at least 4 years!

https://www.altairastro.com/lightwave-0.8x-reducer.html

Ron

Thanks, but also out of stock.  Have they been giving reducers for the 80ED away for free? It seems they are all out of stock and/or have a ridiculous delivery time..

9 hours ago, scitmon said:

Did your evostar not already inlude a t adaptor?  Mine did when I bought mine a few years ago.  With that all you should require is https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adapters/sw_m48_adapter-1.html.  I'm 95% sure there will be enough focusser travel to not need the diagonal.

 

I did get that adapter (I think), but without the extra "tubing" of a reducer, can I really achieve focus?

9 hours ago, Ronclarke said:

Check out a Flattener/reducer from Altair Astro. That are also cheaper than the SW version.

Ron

While most shops I know do carry that brand, I can't seem to find a flattner/reducer.

Also, would that fit correctly?

7 hours ago, johnturley said:

You may also need an approx 50mm extension tube if one wasn't included with the scope

John

Would something like this work?

Site is in dutch but basically it's an extender with a T thread (and space for 2' filters)

https://www.robtics.nl/product_info.php?cPath=30_139_395&products_id=1088&pID=1088&language=en

Hi all,

I own a skywatcher evostar 80ed with which I want to start AP. There is also a Canon 600d underway, however I just found out the .85x flatner/reducer for the 80ed has a horrible order time (1 to 3 months) at most European webshops, including FLO.

I do like to start making photos, what do I need to connect my Canon 600d to the scope? Since it is only a temporary solution, until the reducer finally arrives, I'd prefer not to spend that much cash if not needed.

I am guessing I still need a m48 adapter, but do I also need some kind of extender? And would that connect to the focusser or do I have to go via the diagonal? 

Thanks all for the answers, I'll look at the 600d to start with.

I am sure other brands and versions might be equaly well suites, but I have to make a choice.

Again thanks for the help...

23 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

As you say a second hand 450d will do the job, later cameras have more bells and whistles not related to astro' photography, later ones have better noise control and better software all round.

Be wary of later 700 models that have a different autofocus array that interferes with astro' images, the 600 range are good having a useful flip out rotating screen and later cameras have better red response so do a good job without modding, no idea about Nikon.

Dave

So, with what you are saying the 600 series seem to be the sweet spot between money and quality..

19 minutes ago, noah4x4 said:

Whatever camera, you consider take a look at Camera Jungle.com.

This second hand camera exchange is run by Jessops and you can purchase unused unopened (still originally boxed) DSLR cameras at incredible discounts. Of course, they are last year's obsolete retail model, but still good for purpose. I picked up a Nikon DX5200 body for around half price. But Canon EOS appear more popular as the software options appear wider.

But why DSLR? I find that an astro camera tends to be much more forgiving. I gave up with a DSLR after about a year, instead bought an Atik Horizon camera, and never looked back. My DLSR had a 200 page manual and consequently I never fully mastered it.

Firstly I forgot to mention I al not from the UK, but will check that site to see if intl purchases are a good option.

Secondly, it is a matter of budget. A new zwo or atik for DSO seems to be quite expensive. Of course you het a lot from that money, but it is still a lot of money, while a used DSLR van be had for 1/3 9f the price. And secondhand zwo/atik cams are difficult to find in my country, secondhand DSLRs are easy to find.

I recently bought a skywatcher evostar 80ED refractor on a heq5 mount.

A guidecam is ordered (allthough waiting for the good folks at FLO to send it, is a good test of my patience), so all I am missing to start photographing is a reducer/flatner and camera.

The flatner will be the .85 made by skywatcher for the 80ED, but what camera would you advise?

I don't have that much of a budget, the mount plus scope took a lot from it, so I am looking for the best bang for my buck. Also in the future I probably want to step up to a mono cam, so I am not looking forward to spend a large amount of money, of not really necessary. Also, I will not use the camera for anything other than AP.

I gathered Nikon or Canon seem to be the most prefered brands, but there is so much choice.

A Canon 450d is mentioned a lot, however, also old and surpassed. But cheap. Others are more expensive, but maybe also a lot better?

What would you advise an absolute beginner to buy, not wasting money on quality he can't use (yet), but also not buying anything that has to be replaced to soon?

2 hours ago, dannybgoode said:

So long as the position of Polaris on the ring in your PA scope matches that of the app it really doesn’t matter. 
 

I think PA reticules would be better off just being a plain circle for the northern hemisphere - would save so much confusion. 

That is what I was thinking, but as a beginner I wasn't sure.

Rotating your mount around the RA axis just to get the numbers right can't have any effect on polar alignment on that same axis (assuming the callibration is done correctly), at least that seems logical, but I might be very wrong.

5 hours ago, JamesF said:

The stars appear to rotate around the Earth's axis of rotation.  If the RA axis is aligned with that of the Earth then they will also appear to rotate about the RA axis in the same way, so if you now rotate the mount about the RA axis at the same speed as the stars appear to rotate then as far as the view through the telescope is concerned, the stars appear to stay still.

James

I do get that, however, if you are polar aligning, you align the RA axis of the mount. Does rotating the mount in it's RA axis make a difference for polar alignment?

If I look at my polar scope while the mount/telescope is in the home position, the reticle shows the numbers (0/3/6/9) not in the correct position (i.e. the 6 is almost on top).

The only way to get the 0 on top, is to rotate the mount in the RA axis, in my case untill the counterweigth bar is pointing up.

Is that required though?

Lets say my handcontroller or Polaris finder app tell me to put Polaris at exactly the bottom of the reticle, does it matter if I leave the mount in the home position, showing the 0 (almost) at the bottom of if I turn the mount so the 0 is at the top?

Assuming the polar scope is properly calibrated, in both cases, I put Polaris at the same physical spot on the circle, only the corresponding numbers change.

Pardon my ignorance, but if polar aligning is all about pointing the RA axis of the mount towards the NCP, what effect is there when I rotate the mount around that axis?

Thanks all for the clarification, I am sure the next time I can set up, I at least know what I should be doing.

47 minutes ago, spillage said:

If you are using the handset then you would do a two or three star alignment after you polar align. You can then pick your target from the list in the handset and it will slew to the target and start tracking automatically.

You are thinking of guiding where you use an additional scope and camera or oag. This uses software to be more precise. Tracking will move the mount to keep up with the rotation. If your polar alignment is out then the tracking will be off and cause trails. Have you have seen an explanation involving the earth with a large pole going through it N to S.

I totally missed the notion my mount keeps tracking the selected target, with that in mind, it totally makes sense to properly PA.

44 minutes ago, Jiggy 67 said:

Try the utilities menu for dimming the polar scope.

Polar alignment is very important especially for photography. You are using a powered mount that follows the target in RA around the north celestial pole. You might not see it but it is and to do this the mount needs to be aligned with the ncp which is near polaris 

For some reason I didn't get the idea of my mount actively tracking that patch of sky. I thought it just slew to the target and that is it.

I will try the utilities menu, the manual says nothing, but that seems outdated anyway.

20 minutes ago, joe aguiar said:

Ok so let's say u have a manual mount I know u dont but let's go back to basics.

If you polar align just to Polaris right in the center of the polar scope thats about 5 degrees off but that's good enough for visual.  With tracking off or no tracking, you will the sky is only moving on one axis.

Let's say u are viewing juipter at 200x power. It will leave the fov in about 20 sec but this also de8what ep fov u have too. With a manual slow motion controls u can move it back to the object. Ok now if u turned on tracking Jupiter would be in the view for along time let's say 20 to 30 min. 

BUT you will then notice it's also moving upwards in the other direction opposite from when u had the tracking off and that cause the polar alignment is off 5 degrees from true north. 

If u fixed the alignment for Polaris to be 100 or 99% you wouldn't see that 2nd movement. 

However your latitude  has to also be 100% and the dial on the mount is not big or accurate enough to be 100% so it wont be. Also all mount drives are also not 100% on tracking either. But get all these very close and u ALMOST very have to track.

Did that help or not?

There r videos that show u a projected view so u understand. 

Joejaguar 

 

The way you describe it, I understand it. In that case, it is more a convenience thing to only have to adjust in one axis.

But like others have said, I mixed up guiding (with a cam/software) with tracking (which my mount seems to do, but I didn't realise that).

In with that in mind, PA makes a lot more sense.

Thanks all for the clarification and helping a newbie making sense of it all...

Last question, with the new reticule, do I just position Polaris on the correct spot of the "clock" (with the synchscan init app) regardless what numbers is on the bottom of the reticule or does the 6 have to be on the bottom?

1 hour ago, spillage said:

Hi Eikie

I am sure there should be an option in the handset the adjust the brightness of the polar scope. I would first of all make sure you polar scope is properly aligned during the day. There are a few youtube videos showing you how to do this and then if you have an android phone install synscan init and this will show you where the polar star should be positioned. Hope this helps.

M31 is a very large target and I would suggest M42 if that is possible as a first target or just any area of the sky to start with. I would take a few shoots at different exposure times and see how far you can push it before star trailing starts to happen and then just run as many as possible shots as you can. Maybe 15,30,45,60,120,180 seconds.

Polar alignment is really important especially as you are not guiding.

The manual doesn't mentions dimming, but I will dig through the handset to see if there is a setting I can adjust.

The polar scope is aligned, at least I did my best during the Day.

How is polar alignment important if I am not guiding? Nothing, except the sky, is moving, how does polar alignment play a roll? Is it to get the object in frame again by just using the RA direction?

24 minutes ago, joe aguiar said:

I have used polar scopes that are not even illumanted so u could just take out the barriers and u should still see the black lines and polaris

I agree with above u got to try different exposures first  try few at 20 sec few at 30sec etc, if your not polar aligned good I would say after 30 you will see star trails. or at the least bloated stars. so you can take more pics less exposure that will work too.

joejaguar

First I will try to dim the lights before I start taking stuff out.

And same question to you, how does polar alignment play a roll in star trails if I am not guiding? With or without it, the stars will be moving anyway with the mount not moving. Or do I manually keep slewing (with the handset) the mount in  the RA axis when taking photos? (In that case I do see the importance of PA).

Still utterly confused

After getting excellent advice a few weeks ago, I purchased a skywatcher 80ed plus and heq5 mount.

And of course the sky has been cloudy ever since, with 1 small hazy window in which I tried my new toys (and ran into the first issues)

Having read the (outdated?) manual, countless websites/forums and watched hours of video, I am still stuck on polar alignment. So I'd could use some pointers.

First of all, the polar scope is so really really bright red when the mount is powered up, I can't see Polaris, unless I power down. The manual says nothing about dimming the red light. Is that normal, how am I supposed to properly align if I can't see Polaris through it?

Secondly, every website and video mentions the finding where Polaris should be (with an app) and adjusting the mount so the bubble/circle in the polar finder is on that position and Polaris is in it. (As an alternative to the procedure in the manual by twisting dials to transit dates etc)

My mount does not have a circle, it has numbers (12/3/6/9). I am assuming Polaris should still be at the (app mentioned) position, but what about the numbers? 12 on top?

Bonus question, assuming I can manually find m31 to photograph without guiding, would I take a few 30 (or whatever is the max in that situation) seconds photos, slew the m31 back in frame and go for the next few shots?

Is that how you photograph without guiding? And does that need an accurate polar align?

All questions which have been asked before, but I really can't seem to find the answers. So of anybody could point in the right direction, I'd appreciate it...

7 hours ago, billyharris72 said:

I think this sounds like a great setup - probably the most common "beginner" astrophotography setup there is these days, and for good reason. The other option (maybe a little more demanding, but with more light grasp, tighter stars and actually less expensive) is the 130 P-DS. To be honest, there's not much in it, and the 80mm ED is by all accounts a keeper. It involves a lot less fiddling around in the dark than a Newt.

On the 72ED, I have one and have to say I'm retiring it as an imaging scope. The thing can't focus blue light. It's fine with an unmodded DSLR but on a mono rig the levels of CA are totally unacceptable. Add that to focus slop and a lack of in focus and to me that scope is just a dead end for imaging.

That said, I may have a bad one, but I've not been at all impressed.

Billy.

Thank you, for now I'll keep my sights on the 80ed and forget about the 72. Like you said, you might have gotten a lemon, but since I have the money for a 80, why risk it.