Ships and Stars

And Stephans Quintet is another interesting one from what I've read. And the veil... Can't wait!

Hi Iain and Gerry, I have an Astronomik OIII, bought a 1.25 second hand but then a 2" came up used but as new really, so two in the eyepiece case. I've heard, possibly incorrectly, the Astronomik OIII filters are perhaps on the 'strong' side and have a fairly narrow range of light transfer. The Lumicon OIII has good reviews as well. Wondering if a less aggressive UHC needs to be on the shopping list? Which filter(s) do you use/prefer? 

Iain - I haven't had too many problems with the midges lately, but smidge spray and long sleeves/headset are a must when they are out, usually early morning/ evening and dull grey days when there's little to no wind. When it's calm like that, beware! A nice breeze does work wonders, sends them hiding for cover!

32 minutes ago, scarp15 said:

I guess the main consideration, late August into September, northern Scotland, would be to become located somewhere that might pick up some night time breezes. Swarms of stars will soon be diminished replaced by another kind. 

Ah, you speak of the mighty midgie perhaps! The only creature in Scotland that sends people running and screaming...

No seriously, I get a fair reaction to them and swell up. Nothing requiring a trip to A&E, but I can have just one bite and it will stop itching for a week, totally forgotten, and then suddenly come back and itch for another week. I work outside and once had my hands covered in midge bite on top of midge bite (wearing complete protection everywhere else). That was truly awful. I'm hoping they have thinned out a bit this year, though they've not been bad to be honest. NE Scotland isn't as bad as the west coast, but the Cairngorms can get pretty nasty with them. 

Good point actually Iain, I'd pushed that thought out of my mind!

I can't wait Gerry! Hope the weather halfway cooperates. 

3 hours ago, jetstream said:

Your welcome and pursuing dark skies is fun in itself. Reading reports elsewhere I've noticed that when the term "Bortle" is used by some as a static label- I even did when I said I live in Bortle 1 skies.  My skies vary as do others and to say that most any location is always "Bortle1" is very misleading.

I read a report where the observer described a Bortle 2 sky as 22mag with high 7's NELM.....and then the site was then labelled Bortle 2.

What I did in the pursuit of dark skies is to find a few dark sites that I could travel to and avoid cloud etc- it might be in your best interest to find sites such as this. I'll take a super transparent 21.4 sky over a 21.6 sky with lower trans. My best views come near zenith and I try to pick objects up high, like the Veil is now. The other night M81/M82 were nice in the 24" but no where near as good as they will be higher up.

As far as the Little Veil, try many times after warming up the eyes but don't waste too much valuable dark sky time on it IMHO- too many better objects to see lol! Normally one challenge object is included in each serious obs session here, thats it.

 

Thanks again, very enlightening Gerry. I tend to get carried away with the Bortle classifications, as you point out there are other factors which can make or break things. My main 'away' spot is definitely dark any way you look at it, and has excellent views in all directions. No traffic either!

I've missed two nights in a row at home for clear skies from midnight to 3am, early starts for work and general tiredness that time of night (surprise, surprise) have prevented me from getting everything out. I was so close last night to at least getting the 8" reflector out, shame on me!

I was able to catch up on work commitments today and start building a wheelbarrow attachment for the Stargate 500p. I've finally sorted a design that I think will work without harming the underside of the base (can't attach handles on the sides due to design). I also modified two loading ramps for my van so the wheelbarrow attachment runs up it much easier by reducing the transition angle at the bottom (the ramps were designed for lawn tractors!)

I have a few days off over the next few weeks, flexible with work so when it's clear, I will be out the door in the evening and ready to go.

Now just hoping we don't have cloud for the next two weeks!! Long term forecast not looking great, but they're always wrong, right? 😁

I can't wait, fingers crossed. Hopefully some very excited novice viewing reports next week or two!

Thanks again for your information, you might have saved me a three and a half hour drive when an equally good spot is under an hour away!

Sounds nice!!

6 minutes ago, msacco said:

I see, I'm actually going to the US in a few hours, is there any place I could search for second hand stuff maybe?
Though I'm not sure how it would be possible getting it from someone while traveling, but maybe it could

You could perhaps have items sent to a post office for collection, or a reputable hotel etc. Try https://www.astrobuysell.com for used gear in the states. Don't know how long shipping would take though?

Thanks Ian! I like that part of the world as well. Worked for a short while near Luce Bay, lovely part of the world, must return. Mull of Galloway is pretty spectacular as well. Not been there with a scope, though I imagine it has excellent skies.

Thanks Jetstream! Your post has me ready to do some proper viewing. The long term weather forecast for the next few weeks is not looking great, but at least it's changeable. Your comments on the milky way and little veil have me itching to get out! Fingers crossed, I've waited since April to get the big dob back out, and have picked up some nice eyepieces over the summer. Thanks very much!

21 minutes ago, parallaxerr said:

I'm pleased to say that last nights observing session went very well with the new system. I nailed every target in the FoV of my 32mm plossl, first time and it also allowed me to leave the UHC filter fitted as I didn't have to rely on star hopping. 

Only point to note was that leaving Stellarium running on the phone murdered the battery, despite running on a note9 which has a 4000+mAh battery! I will have to connect my usb power tank for loner sessions.

Haha, that's brilliant! Nice to be able to leave the filter in place as well. May I ask which version of Stellarium you are using? I looked online last night, think there is a standard and a pro or plus version, but more than a few seem to prefer the standard version. I think there's also a PC version for laptop/desktops. I started with SkyView though now mostly use SkySafari, but I like how Stellarium gives coordinates as such.  Should be quite easy to plug into a power tank to keep the phone humming along. This is a real timesaver for those not running GOTO and don't have super-dark skies to easily hop to targets.

Very nice! How did you make the phone bracket? I like this setup, simple but effective. 

Welcome Ben, I'm quite new here as well. Or inexperienced. Take you pick! Haha.

Nice dob by the way!

You were asking above about a dark skies layer for GE. I don't think there is one per se, but I use light pollution map to tease out which places might offer the better views.

https://www.lightpollutionmap.info/#zoom=6&lat=7017101&lon=-323978&layers=B0FFFFFTFFFFF

It shows approximate light pollution in SQM and uses the Bortle scale which runs from 1 (very dark skies) to 9 (ouch, sorry!)

There are other environmental factors as well for seeing conditions beyond simple darkness, but this is the fundamental place to start. Once I find a dark area, I then check it out on Google Earth and see what roads are accessible to the public. My ideal spot is on a private road near where I live, quite high up so excellent views all-around, but I haven't worked up the nerve yet to ask the landowner if I can drive up there with my scope. The worst they can say is no, really.

Where I live at home isn't great, but I can still get some decent views in without loading the scope and driving out of town.

Happy viewing!

Right, so that's the leisure battery, 3.5m long cig lighter extension with alligator clips, 12v hair dryer and today, pack of bullseye levels and no less than five 12v variable speed cooling fans (they were cheap! £2.50 each). Three fans for the rear of the primary and possibly two to clear the boundary layer on the business side of the mirror. One blowing in and one extracting on the other side, or whatever arrangement seems to work. Don't want to blow grit and dust across the mirror either, so will take a little thought...

Still waiting on heavy duty sack truck, then I think it's time to chop up my credit card for the year...🤣

29 minutes ago, omo said:

Dundee. The comparisons could be interesting.

Yep, where I live it's quite bright actually. I can just make out the ring nebula with my 130pds when the moon is down. My 200p will do it when the moon's up, but it's not very contrasty. You don't have to go too far from Dundee though to get some really good conditions I've noticed!

Thanks everyone, if I'm lucky enough to make the west coast and Bortle 1, I'll note the humidity and conditions and compare it to a 2/3/4 as I get closer to home!

8 hours ago, pete_l said:

Hmmm.

At my location the degree of sky darkness varies from around 21.5 up to "Bortle 1" (to the point where I thought my Unihedron SQM was broken ). The quality of the sky can vary due to many factors, including sunspot activity, prevailing winds and what seems to me to be the most important: atmospheric transparency due to dust and water content. On the best nights I can have an SQM better than 21.8 (see some captures of SQM meter readings from my garden) and on the next night it is lower.

Whether you can make use of great skies is determined primarily by your eyesight.  As a 60-something, I do not have either the acuity or the dilated pupils of a 20 y/o. Which must knock at least a magnitude off my personal NELM. As such, I take the Bortle descriptions with a large pinch of salt.

Having said that, using SQM measurements as a proxy for seeing and transparency does provide some great views on the darkest nights. Though it bears reminding that under a full moon everywhere is Bortle 6!

 

 

 

 

Oh wow, that's some very useful information. Thank you! I'd like an SQM meter but fear I'd only need it a few times, so will see of one pops up on ebay or ABS and then I can sell it on and break even. I would really like to have on though, that's just the sort of thing that would let me know if I'm tricking myself into thinking some of my spots are darker than I imagine. 

There is quite a good article available online that touches on other factor besides sheer darkness - I had not realised the various factors involved when taking the fuller picture into account- http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1984ESOC...18....3W

Like you my eyes are not as good as they used to be, that's also partially down to some welding flashes as well I suspect, but generally speaking, am ok besides some astigmatism which I might try and correct with a TV dioptrx so I can enjoy the full field of view of some of my nicer eyepieces.

I didn't realise the moon can bump everything to Bortle 6! No wonder I was struggling to see the ring nebula a few nights ago!

Many thanks again for the information, I shall have to chase down an SQM meter.

Clear skies.

1 hour ago, DirkSteele said:

I have been fortunate to observe under both Bortle 1 and Bortle 2 skies many times. While near the zenith there is usually little to separate them, I have found that conditions can deviate (but not always) the closer you get to the horizon. I have certainly been under class 2 where small light domes from distant settlements are visible, but under class 1, at least the ones I have observed from, it is that dark all the way to the horizon.

That makes sense at zenith as you say. My bortle two spot in the NE has a strong light dome on the horizon. I couldn't figure out where it was coming from, until I realised it was Dundee and surroundings, some 50 miles away bouncing off the atmosphere! 

12 hours ago, viewer said:

Nice to read this! I have Bortle 3-4 on a driving distance, extraordinary views, accustomed to Bortle 7-8. Took a good view on the dark site finder. Better Bortles are more or less pipe dreams. Though I'd be very interested in how Bortle 1 differs from 2, please report. I'd say go for it, then you can decide if you choose 2 for convenience 😉

Good idea! I wouldn't know unless I try. Bortle 1 the first few days if I can get a clear night on the west coast, then bortle 2 on the way home on the same target. Great idea actually, cheers!

These should keep me busy for a few years, haha 🤣

3 hours ago, omo said:

Bortle 2 an hour away would be Glen Clova for me, need a car license before i can take some gear there or over to the NW. Would be something to behold when it was actually dark later in the year, compared to the limitations of being in town

Are you around Dundee or Montrose? Get a pass on your test when you can, it opens things up a lot. City lights are hard going!

Are you near the Peak District/Edale? Can catch a train to Edale I believe.  I lived in the midlands for many years, I feel your pain. Forgot what night skies should look like. 

Yep Glen Clova/Glen Doll/Glen Lethnot is wonderful. I've been camping there, no scope though, but it's on my list. A lot of people overlook the eastern glens for both tourism in general and astronomy. Away from Perth/Dundee there is a nice belt of darkness up in the glens running NE. 

At home it's a struggle, the business next to me keeps their rear light on 24/7. I made a cardboard and gaffer tape blinder that hang on their gutters, very lightweight, maybe 50g and doesn't touch the lights or get warm, and I remove it when I put the scope up for the night. Makes a big difference! No fuss, no mess😁 Tarfside would be a great spot, that's where the red pin is dropped at top centre of pic. I'm thinking about hosting a star party in NE Scotland within reasonable distance of Glasgow/Edinburgh this year. No one seems to host one up this way.

Hi MaHa, do you know anyone with university access to online periodicals etc? A student or staff member?

The Springer website has quite a few full pdf downloads if you know anyone with Shibboleth/Athens access through a university. 

A lot of these cover the same ground and have overlap on similar topics, but still, a treasure trove of info.

They also have a lot on proper high level astrophysics, but that whistles right over my head I'm afraid🤣

Hi all,

Planning my upcoming astronomy trip here in Scotland, hopefully have a week plus to roam around in the van. I do visual only. I have a Bortle 2 spot just over an hour away at a familiar camping spot, but if its hols and I have the time, I can drove over to the west coast and experience Bortle 1, assuming the weather cooperates.🙄

Of course the darker the better, but wondering if it is worth a lot more in fuel and time to chase Bortle 1, or just relax at a known spot fairly close to home that's still a really good Bortle 2? 21.94sqm, no lights for miles and no traffic. I've not taken my scope there before, only been under Bortle 3/4 right by home, which was pretty good actually. Just thinking the Bortle 1 could be mind-blowing. Viewing through a 20" dob. 

Any thoughts?

Clear skies all.

If you don't have a car and don't have to go up and down stairs, then it doesn't matter how big the scope is 🤣 You are young and presumably in better physical shape than I am, your eyes won't get any better as you get older and finally, you only live once. Go for the 12" dob but look at a 10" 254mm first just to understand the size. I't s not that daunting in my mind, just depends on how much you can lift comfortably, bearing in mind you are holding a very expensive mirror and not just a big sack of potatoes if you drop it! Otherwise, buy a smaller scope and see if it is a hobby you want to stay with. The hardest part is the light pollution in your area, but exact location can make a big difference.