davekelley

I have had a few problems with alignment!  Perhaps this is the key...........

This seems a silly question but telescopes come with scant instructions no matter how sophisticated or expensive!  So, is it of any importance when mounting a mak on an azgti wifi, that the scope must be mounted on the left side of the mount (left as in the direction the scope is pointing, as you stand behind it), and does the mounting screw need to be at the top ?   Every pic I have seen shows the ota mounted in this way and I've only just realised it.  will this have an effect on the goto accuracy?

I feel a bit silly asking but I'm sure one or two of you will have the answer.

Thanks

Dave

18 minutes ago, heliumstar said:

I don't go along with magnified finders as well so I move Rigel from scope to scope. If you are set on a prism I would go either T-2 non Zeiss or Tak for your 127 mak. Both around 100. If you are set on either prism or mirror BBHS check these codes on RVO website ( enter codes into search - FLO doesn't seem to stock them ) :

Prism: 2456095

Mirror: 2456103

Nosepiece: 2458105

1.25" Clicklock: 2458100

T-2 non Zeiss prism : 2456005-K - similar price to Tak prism. I had it but didn't go along with eyepiece holder and three screws. ClickLock is much more comfortable in use.

 

Thanks.  So the BBHSis noticeably better than those prisms?  I should go with that thank you.  Like you say it's a one off payment and you get a lifetimes use.  Also, I can sell a few bits I don't really need anymore.....put that towards it.....

1 hour ago, heliumstar said:

True. It's expensive - not 400. I bought mine from RVO and it was 260 with nosepiece and 1.25" Clicklock. It's T-2 BBHS mirror - not 2". Still if you think about it it's the same price as SW 72ed! 🙄 I had T-2 non Zeiss Baader prism and it was very good as well. I settled on Tak prism due to being so lightweight and Baader BBHS mirror for to my eyes being the best. It only hurts once when you buy it and if you take care of them they will last decades I guess. With BBHS that is actually a promise from Baader.

If it helps. With my 127 Mak I always use Tak prism and Baader 8-24 zoom and I am very happy with that combination. In my opinion that is actually one of the finest combinations of portability, price and capability in the market. Put it on AZ GTi Wifi and you have a perfect scope for beginners and experienced observers.

I do have AZ GTI WIFI, I have only tried it a few times and found it not to be very accurate.  I'm not very good with the finder and have added a telrad, I think that will help with me setting it all up.  I would be prepared to buy a 1.25" Baader BBHS if the total came to £250 or so, all I can seem to find is the 4" and the 1.25" non zeiss or tax prism.  Is the BBHS worth the extra? I'd stretch to it if you think it's a lot better.  Thanks

On 19/09/2019 at 20:54, heliumstar said:

After trying many diagonals from Altair Astro, SkyWatcher, Baader 2" mirror (white one), Baader T-2 prism, BBHS mirror, Tak prism and all those that came with the scopes like Bresser, SW, Celestron I settled on Baader T-2 BBHS mirror and Takahashi Prism. Baader BBHS mirror is absolute best to my eyes and 1.25" clicklock is so effortless to use. You can clearly see how Baader is brighter than all the rest and colours of Albireo are deeper for example. It's even better than Tak prism. Baader's T-2 prism is on-par with Tak I might add.

Now, I only tested this on double stars, planets and Luna so not sure how it would work on deep-sky objects since I can't really see any from where I observe - I use camera for that (EAA).

That's interesting but the BBHS costs more than my OTA!  Quite a lot more.  I'm not sure I want to spend £400 on a diagonal.  Would a Baader T2 (not zeiss) be an improvement over the stock mirror diagonal that came with my scope?  (skymax 127).  I might even stretch to the zeiss at about £250 if that makes a lot of difference....I think £400 is just not on really.....

I have owned both these scopes and I sold the 100ed.  I won't be selling the mak.  I'm no expert and I'm only an occasional, casual observer, and I liked the views in the ed but for some reason I prefer the views in the mak, it seems to pull in more light somehow, and get more pinpoint stars, it's a lot more manageable, takes up no space and I like the simplicity of alt-az/goto!  For someone like me, with poor skies, and I've owned dobs from 150-300mm as well,  the mak is the perfect compromise.  It would be very easy to take it out somewhere really dark as well it packs away so small.

12 minutes ago, Moonshane said:

Yes sorry Dave I didn't think you meant erect image prisms. They are a bit more variable and (I believe) can sometimes result in star spikes at night. 

I have heard about the spikes.  I think I'm confusing myself!  I'm not having spikes!  erect image prisms are just for terrestrial? I'll have to be careful choosing.

I really like a telrad zero magnification finder!  Once I'm looking through an optical finderscope, I get lost in all the stars, I find I have no idea what I'm looking at!  I like to use telrad/red dot/rigel, then widest tfov eyepiece I have, tolocate an object!  It's horses for courses I suppose!  

27 minutes ago, johninderby said:

With the Baader prism images will still be reveresed left to right as with a mirror diagonal.

Oh!  Thanks for that, I assumed a prism produces a correct image?

This is all good news.  I had always thought that there was a big trade off in image quality if you wanted an erect image.  I shall make the Baader my next purchase

I have always believed that a mirror diagonal, especially a dielectric one, produces a brighter and sharper image than a prism.  I've never tested it out it's just something I read a long time ago and have always taken as fact.   Lately I have been reading that, on long focal length scopes, a prism will give noticeably better images, brighter, more contrast, no false colour etc. as well as the nice advantage of producing an erected image.  I have a 127 starmax and I want to upgrade the diagonal.  What's the best way to go?  I have a telrad because I find upside down back to front images in the finder just annoying and I think a combination of telrad + prism diagonal would suit me so well.  Having said that, my scope is goto so it shouldn't really be an issue, I just haven't quite got the goto to go to anything very well yet!  I like to keep things simple.  I was looking at a baader t2 90 deg prism.  

Any  thoughts or experienced user observations would be excellent thanks folks.

regards 

Dave

I've confused myself.  My Speers is a 13.4mm, hyperion is 24mm..  I bought they hyperion for maximum fov, to use as a finder/general low-ish power ep.  It is going to prove to be a far more useful ep.   My  Nirvahas came in boxes marked "Helios"  but it's all GSO is it not?

17 minutes ago, John said:

Interesting report Dave but in all honesty it can be misleading to compare the performance of eyepieces that deliver greatly varying magnifications. The seeing conditions are likely to be responsible for more of the variations you see than the eyepiece from my experience.

Hyperions are great in slow scopes such as the mak-cassegrain 127 (I assume your Skywatcher 127 is the mak-cassegrain) but show noticable astigmatism (elongated stars) in the outer parts of the field of view when the focal ratio of the scope drops much below around F/8-F/8 and thats when they get some stick from observers who use them in such scopes.

Of the ones that I've owned and used, the shorter focal length Speers-WALERS seem to perform better generally than the longer ones.

The Nirvanas are fine eyepieces and deliver very close to Tele Vue Nagler performance, especially in a scope like yours.

 

I was surprised at the Hyperion beating the Nirvanas and especially the Speers-waler, but I guess under far from perfect conditions, lower power often produces better results, however the Hyperion 13.4 was quite a lot better than Nirvana 16mm imo.  I don't like the size of the Hyperion or the fact that the rubber eyeguards fall off too easily, and it's difficult to tighten the holding screws due to the fat shape, but definitely the best view by far.

Just popped outside, skies not yet fully dark, Saturn and Jupiter  Skywatcher 127.  Just comparing views with various budget level swa ep's.  Conditions not ideal planets low in the sky and fov includes partial buildings but same conditions for each eyepiece.  Nirvanah 16mm, nice views of both planets, bright, sharp, no real surface detail visible due to conditions, Nirvanah 7mm...image goes a bit mushy now can't get sharp focus but very bright, very nice views of both planets, Speers Waler 13.4mm, loss of brightness and not quite as sharp as either of the Nirvana's!  Finally 24mm Hyperion, best view of saturn by far, small but tack sharp and loads of contrast, jupiter not so great but it's so low in the sky.  GSO 32mm plossl gave nice view also but very low power.  Given that the Hyperion provides the maximum FOV possible for this scope and the sharpest most contrasty image, it gets the thumbs up here!   Odd because people laud the Speers on here and seem to diss Hyperions somewhat.  Just my little opinion folks.  I'm surprised but it's interesting.

Clear skies 

Dave

9 hours ago, Ags said:

I use the Nirvana 16mm as a planetary and lunar eyepiece in a similar scope (Skymax 102) and it works very well indeed. But I have never used a Starguider so can't compare.

thank yoy for that.  I have ordered a 16mm and a 7mm.  What do you use for the occasional bright DSO, M13, M57, M15, M27 etc...?

Skywatcher 127 Mak with AZ WIFI.    What is going to work best for this scope I know the BST eyepieces are great but craving a larger fov I am tempted by the Nirvanah line. Maybe I could go for a 25mm BST and then 16mm and 7mm Nirvanah?  I know they are all good eyepieces and the prices are not a problem.  I havepoor skies so it's bright nebula and planets/double stars I'd be looking at.  I have seen that the starguider ep's do amazingly well on planets, especially at the cost!!  Do the Nirvanah perform just as well but with the larger fov or is some sharpness/contrast lost?

Thanks everybody.

Well skies are predicted for tonight so I shall be re tightening everything, resetting the alignment and trying again.  One small thing mentioned in the app instructions is that the final slewing direction in the centering for alignment purposes has to be up and right.  Something so casually mentioned but perhaps significant.  I shall report back hopefully with better results this time.

On 05/07/2019 at 13:09, AdeKing said:

OK, forget the 3-star option, that will be because I updated to the firmware that allows the mount to operate in equatorial mode or alt az mode. 

I can't answer why the goto for Jupiter is so far out after you've aligned on Jupiter and Deneb, it should return to either alignment star after you get the "alignment successful" message. 

There were some issues with the early firmware versions, it might be worth updating the firmware to see if that helps. 

http://skywatcher.com/download/software/motor-control-firmware/

Just be careful about which firmware version you use as the "right arm dual mode" version allows use as an EQ mount but also requires the tube to always be fitted to the right hand side of the mount, whereas the default setup is on the left hand side.  I think the above version will just cause more confusion.  Just select the AZGti v3.16 firmware but remember that you'll need to download the update tool as well. 

If it doesn't help and if the mount is in warranty then I'd suggest returning it to the retailer to swap out for a new one. 

 

I am quite confused as to how I load the firmware update onto the mount.  If I download the file to my pc how do I get that onto the mount? Or can I download directly into the mount?  

27 minutes ago, johninderby said:

Should be close enough.

What are your phone settings? If you’ve got power saving enabled that could be rhe problem. Go to your advanced WiFi settings and select always on.

I've got power saving turned off and wifi on.  I do seem to have bugs my phone is always complaining that this or that app has "stopped working"  My phone is rubbish.  Having said that, when I do an alignment and confirm the position of Jupiter and then Deneb, why then if I ask it to goto Jupiter, does it get nowhere near?  How can that happen?  I already told the scope exactly where Jupiter is located!

1 hour ago, AdeKing said:

With this mount, I normally do a three star alignment. 

Starting level and pointing North the mount moves to the first alignment star which will be a long way out, but after aligning on it, the mount gets closer to the second alignment star and after aligning on that it moves to the third alignment star which should be very close.

After aligning on that and completing the procedure most targets are within the field of view. 

The first target will always be way out as the mount only has a crude model of the sky at that point. As you align on more stars the model it has gets more accurate with each alignment star. 

I don't personally use the level and North align option on mine I normally use 1 Star Align for quick sessions, brightest star align or normally the 3 star align which gives most accurate gotos but whichever option I use the scope always assumes that it starting point is level and North when it starts the alignment procedure. 

I'll have a go with mine using North and level next time I use it and see if I get similar results. 

Just a quick question, are the clutches on both of the axes tightened up. The Azimuth one needs to be fairly tight. You shouldn't be able to easily move the scope by gently pushing on either axis. 

Ade

Yes I have the clutches tightened as it says in the instructions that will give best results!   the options I get in "Alignment" are "Brightest star"  (which is a 2 star method)  and "North Level" which also asks you to confirm 2 stars!!  No 3 star option.  reading reviews of the mount everyone says that even the 1st star in the process should be somewhere in the fov in a 32mm plossl.  I don't even get it in the fov of the finderscope.

It's beginning to really bug me now!!

Dave

I am beginning to think it could be my phone that is the issue, the app keeps hanging up.  I'm not sure it is even feeding the mount the right coorninates.  the app says  51,55N   2,06 W.   If i google Cheltenham UK  I get 51,89N   2,08W.     I am hoping someone on here will know if that small variation should make such a big difference?   You'd think I'd still be getting pretty close?

I'm not going to give up on this I really want to get this thing working !

Clear skies

Dave

7 hours ago, Gfamily said:

I'm not sure what you mean by "I started a 2-star alignment with Jupiter ... the scope was nowhere near Jupiter". 

If you were aligning with Jupiter, surely your first step is to manually slew it to that planet - or am I missing something? 

The scope tries to slew to Jupiter, it should at least put the planet in the fov (32mm plossl)  but it's nowhere close.  I have slewed it and centred it, and then it will slew to the next star, and be miles away from that!  i can centre that star and then confirm alignment, then even if I ask it to goto jupiter, it'll be nowhere near!

On 03/07/2019 at 03:40, ScouseSpaceCadet said:

I must look for that notch again. Maybe I was expecting something obvious...

If you're not hitting the target, it may be because the manual misses a crucial step. If you haven't already, watch this from 15 minutes in:

 

Yes he makes it all look so straightforward.  I do exactly what he does, and the scope is miles off target!  he isn't out in the field in the dark he's assuming that the scope is finding the target!!  well mine does not come close.

 

 

 

 

I have to say, I thought I detected a tiny "notch" on the extension tube, I thought I lined up one of the screws and tightened everything up correctly, I did a level and north align, then there were no stars tonight very overcast but I started a 2 star alignment with Jupiter which was peeking out from the clouds.....the bloody scope was nowhere near jupiter. Again, it went off looking in the right direction but it was miles off.  I am extremely frustrated with this now.  I assumed this thing would be idiot proof!   Could it be down to my phone being a bit rubbish?  so depressed with this.