Rainer

58 minutes ago, alan potts said:

On the surface weight should not be an issue at 18kg, I believe the CEM60 can carry 27kg. I ordered some extra counter/weights too as I have many scopes and for sure even at the top I would feel 9,5kg is way too much for some of them, so I got 2x2.5's as well.

Hi Allan,

It is not only about weight it is also about moment arm and center of gravity. Also a 12" cher is a nice Sail boat ...

JMHO 🤔

12 hours ago, alan potts said:

Some stunning pictures there and I wouldn't want that lot dropping on my foot from the piers. I was just grabbing words from the air talking about the 12 inch SC and mount without any really knowledge, seem the CEM 120 handles that focal length very well indeed and even the most expensive model about half the price of some of the ones I was looking at.

I feel with the way I work and that really means in the obsey with the scope and relaxing room will be the cancelling factor for the CEM 120 and in this case I would come down on the side of the 60 model. I have a few problems with my Bank at the moment which is actually stopping me access to see the online account. In short they have put in a 4th line of security used our phones and sending a text number. Bulgaria has a 3 digits in its code and they can't send a text to that at the moment, Holland is the same because they only have one digit. security so tight even I can't get into my account.

So it looks like the CEM 60 which I am sure is a bit smaller and more AZ EQ 6 size, Thanks for the pictures.

Alan

Hi Alan,

I would not put a 12" cher on a CEM 60 ... My guts tell me that is not going to work as expected but OK

JMHO 🤔

On 17/09/2019 at 01:37, ollypenrice said:

The phrase in green is going to save you from an indigestible lunch! I have two plug and play equatorial mounts... 

Olly

MY answer was OFF TOPIC

17 hours ago, souls33k3r said:

I just simply want to get on with imaging. 

Hi,

It is not quite that simple ... There is no Plug & Play equatorial mount in the same way that there is no " Simply want to get on with imaging " ... and I eat my Hat if there is one ... I am doing this Sh.t since 20 years ...

On 14/09/2019 at 06:15, alan potts said:

I am not even sure the CEM120 is of high enough quality to get the best out of it.

Hi Alan,

I understand your dobts about the CEM 120XXX and yes it has been a long and steep way until they iOptron finally got a firmware for round stars on heavy equipped CEM120XXX (mainly the encoder fitted mounts)

All my attempts since having uploaded the last beta firmware have given me excellent results. The know issues like short frequency oscillation are gone. The latest proof is from a German user after uploading it. No oscillations anymore using a 16" Newton with 35kg ( ~77 lbs).

I can send you a bunch of RAW fit images if you want for analysing them. I am speaking of a Mewlon 250S @ 3203 mm focal length together mounted with two other refractors with a total payload (Telescopes and Counterweights) of about 220 lbs.

I can also provide you PHD2 Log fiels if you want to take a look at them. Below one example of round stars at that focal length. The Setup in the back it the one in question. The setup in the from in the meantime is also carrying a third telescope on top of the Takahashi TOA 130S and is a Takahashi FS-78.

Again, I admit that it has been a long, steep and unpleasant fight with iOptron until the results came out, but since August 22nd with the release of latest beta firmware version190718 a lot has been achieved. Not yet oficcialy released, still in beta. I can finally say after 10 months of intensive use after my day job retirement that I am now not thinking anymore in sending them back.

The image below is an integration of 15 subexposures with each 600s from a session of 16 sub exposures with Luminance filter only. What looks like a problem of light leak it is not. Thise are verybright stars outside the FOV but still shiny enough to get those streaks onto my image.

All questions are welcome and data is available. Just ask and you will get it.

On 14/09/2019 at 10:16, alan potts said:

Seeing Wiu Wiu's results I am beginning to think buy the encoder version and throw my guiding gear in the bin, amazing results on long F/L's which are never going to be easy meat and test more experienced people than me.

Does any one know if you will get similar results with guiding on a basic mount?

Alan

Hi Alan,

That is wrong thinking = " ... results I am beginning to think buy the encoder version and throw my guiding gear in the bin ... "

 ... Encoders do NOT correct your imperfect Polar Aligment

... Encoders on the CEM 60EC as far as I know do not correct for atmospheric refraction ... (unless they have a built in barometric and temperature measuring device as the CEM 120EC2 have)

Get an OAG and your guiding will be much better ... I only guide through OAG my two mounts ... 

BTW I feel guilty that sould33k3r has problems now due to my advice and so please take this comment with a big Grain of Salt  🥶

4 hours ago, spillage said:

I am just trying to find out if you can transfer data from the camera via the lan connection on the mount.

Hi and no, you can not. It is just a connection to the mount like the other three which are RS232, USB or WiFi

5 hours ago, Anne S said:

I wanted to have my guider on the top dovetail but there's not enough length to fit the MHP as well. I need a longer vixen plate on the top (and a smaller MHP but there's nothing wrong with mine and I need to have a reason to replace it). I'm going to have to rejig it once I've some more dovetails.

Hi souls33k3r,

Now after so many messages I am confused.

To which side is your scope moving when I look at your last image ?

Would you please  post some images of your set up from different angles or view points ?

I have seen nowadays that more and more people pack more and more stuff onto the scopes and then start to balancing problems and if we apply Ockham´s razor then the balance problem is just because there is somewhere a slight asymmetrical weight distribution.

Now having balanced for more then 18 years scopes I came up with the idea which could help avoid adding all those threaded rods and washers all over our scopes.

Use a SBS = Side By Side  solution. Turn your lowest saddle plate by 90°, get a dovetail and a saddle plate, somrthing like this https://www.admaccessories.com/product/cgx-sbs-celestron-cgx-side-side-adapter/

and put the scope on it. In this way you can move the scope sideways when trying to balance the vertical position of the RA axis. Just an idea ... 🤔

BTW be sure to put the tightening knobs of the counterweights directly over the counterweight shaft. Those knobs can also influence the asymmetrical weight distribution.

Thank You

Hi souls33k3r,

Difficult to understand what your problem is.

My first well meant tip is get shorter cables for that stuff on top of the scope. You have a lot of unnecessary Copper weight up there.

About your RA balancing problems it would be good to see some images how the scope is up there and how the weight is distributed. Most of the times a slight unsymettrical weight distribution makes your life hard and in many cases it is possible to avoid any additional wight by analyzing well the weight distribution,

regards Rainer

8 hours ago, Juicy6 said:

I am not afraid of modding things. I tried this and it is just a matter of turning the saddle where you want it. Very simple as you said. Nice work there on your own saddle setup, very nice! Agree with you about iOptron tech support AND their retailers.

Christer, Sweden

Great, If you post an image of your set up now other people could see how it works 🙂

12 hours ago, Juicy6 said:

Me neither. After receiving this short strange reply i wrote the iOptron support back and suggested them to include this mod in the FAQ or Scope Manual:

"Thank you very much for reply. But I think I will wait with this until I have instructions with images to follow. I do not know if anything can go wrong. I think this should be described in the manual for your mounts. Here in Sweden there are many people using side-by-side setups for their gear.  The support at your German retailer Teleskop Service told me this mod is to be avoided. Also a few forum posters say this is not possible. Maybe presumtive buyers will choose another mount if it is not clearly stated that a side-by-side setup is possible."

This was 4 days ago. No reaction yet.  

Christer, Sweden

Interesting how afraid people are to take off a simple saddle plate just because it has some cables attached to a Hub on the saddle.

I am even more astonished that iOptron themselves do not know how that works.

It does not matter where you want to put the tightening knobs of the saddle as well as it does not matter if you turn i Clockwise or Counterclockwise ...

I modified my whole DEC Head and Hub in order to get the cables from the hub symmetrically from inside both of my scopes.

Hi,

Here it is how it works on a CEM 120EC2 or any CEM 120 model.

Look at the white arrow on the DEC Head which has to point North or South depending in which hemisphere you live. Very easy to find out just by unscrewing the saddle plate and looking underneath it.

1 hour ago, Anne S said:

I'm eventually going to do the same thing with my Cem60 once I've got used to it. I've asked Ian from Altairastro to show me how to do the Dec rotation when I'm at a Kelling Heath next month. I'll post details once I've seen how to do it. I'm worried about damaging the cables as I'll need to use the USB ports for the second telescope camera and filterwheel.

I imagine it'll be similar to your mount but I can ask him if there are any pitfalls if you like.

Hi,

There is absolutely no danger if you take off the saddle and turn it 90° or just ake it off for looking how it is set up.

The DEC head should have slots in order to accommodate the cables coming from the hollow DEC axis. As the mounts have the function Search zero position they have a built in sensor which reads the position of the DEC head and you can only have ONE Zero position.

The same was on my CEM 120EC2 mounts. Unscrew the 4 screws which hold the saddle plate and turn it 90 degrees and you have the double telescope set up possibility and you do not need to take off the stopper screw which acts on the DEC head and NOT on the saddle.

Again, I do not understand how iOptron does deliver such contradicting information being so easy to change it to a side by side arrangement.

On 19/08/2019 at 02:53, Juicy6 said:

Just received answer from iOptron Tech Support:

"You have to remove the stopper and be careful not to over turning it. Yes, you need to remove and rotating the saddle 90 degree in order to make Zero Position Sensor works."

Christer, Sweden

This is an ambiguos answer. The CEM 40 has a built in search position sensor and so if you take out the stopper screw you can not use so you have to turn the saddle around for using the Zero Positio sensor.

Why do they give such stupid answers instead of just saying Turn the saddle by 90° ...

11 hours ago, Juicy6 said:

"this is good question. if you unscrew the saddle means you might modify the zero position. if you turn it 90° degrees it might not work. and if you don´t go for a dual saddle setup but for a classical one, telescope over telescope? The problem is the safety lock..I was having them in my past meade telescope and alway to be careful. also if you risk to to too close to the edge near the stop position, I don´t want you to risk to damage the mount. better to arrange the setup for me.."

WOW 🤔

BTW you can not damage the ount as the steppers just make an awful grinding noise but nothing happens ... It is just not nice to hear them whining 🙂

I have two CEM 120EC2 mounts and have seen the CEM 60EC mount of a friend and they have this stops which act on the DEC head and not on the saddle.

Just tne sure to keep the DEC head pointing to the north and turn only the saddle by 90°, The footpreint of the 4 screws golding the saddle is square ...

My mounts have white arrows on the DEC head and those should point North. That is it. And so the Zero position is correct and you can slew to North and South about +-170°

On 14/08/2019 at 00:21, Juicy6 said:

Morning everyone!

The saddle on CEM40 has internal wiring for 12V and USB2. In order not to twist cables, there is a stop preventing it to turn more than one revolution. What is best way to attach my side-by-side setup scope? Am I supposed to unscrew saddle, turn it 90 degrees and tighten it or should I just define a new home position? Changing position of saddle will move mechanical stop to East or West I guess. Now it is at North, home,  position.

Christer, Sweden

Hi,

Yes that is the solution to unscrew the saddle and rotate it 90 degrees. The stop touches the lower part of the dec head and not on the saddle.

The best is to unscrew the saddle and take a look where the stop is.

Rainer

42 minutes ago, RolandKol said:

As per their Facebook comments, they tested the mount on the pier and used SW tripod to make a picture....

Thanks. I looked at thei webpage but no signs there of that mount .

Now is the admisible load 100 kg with NO counterweights ?

Thanks

5 hours ago, Kaliska said:

 

Is that the tripod which comes for a mount for 100 kg payload ? Looks a bit flimsy to me ... a Losmandy type tripod would be much more adequate, like this one 

Now payload means according to what I know the total admissible weight something can carry  ad in this case it would be Telescope equipment plus counterweights or are they using Payload just for telescope equipment plus additionally counterweights ?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/payload 

On 07/07/2019 at 12:41, MakeItSo said:

Simple question for opinions.

Whats the best mount for under £5.5K?

Context:

Will sit in an observatory on a pier

Used for deep sky AP

Will need to carry a 14 inch SCT OR a 130mm refractor plus imaging kit.

(not both scopes at the same time)

Portability not important

Weight capacity is important

Accuracy critical

Ease of set up and use very important 

 

Hi MakeItSo,

Any updates ? 🤔

Rainer

19 hours ago, cotak said:

You can fill in the inside of a metal pier with sand to help make it as heavy as a concrete pier if you are worried.

Hi,

It is not about weight but about stiffness and I guess there is a lot of info in the WWW in order to compare concrete stiffness and steel pipe or tube stiffness

Rainer

2 hours ago, jjosefsen said:

Seeing as this is a new product and possibly driver, could you try to check it with the ascom conformity checker..

https://ascom-standards.org/Developer/Conformance.htm

It is suprising how many suppliers mess up the drivers..

He solved the problem as it was due to a separation sign. In Germany they use a comma and in USA they use a dot ...

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/667057-cem40ec-strange-radec-readouts-in-ascom/?p=9480682

18 minutes ago, theskyisthelimit99 said:

however if you dig around

Hi,

I do not need to dig around. I am a memeber of the CEM 120XXX Google Group since day one so I know from first hand what is going on and BTW I do own two, yes TWO, CEM 120EC2 mounts ... and I know from first hand how they work.

If you are not sure better do not buy a CEM 120XXX. 

Rainer

19 hours ago, theskyisthelimit99 said:

I've seen some reports of some issues with the cem120, often the RA worm needing changed i think? And other issues with stars being elongated, though i'm not sure if its directly related to the 120 mount itself, ie: this thread though most of it is beyond my current understanding.

Hi,

There are quite a lot of CEM 120 already in the wild as far as I know. If you just look at that thread to which you have posted a link then you should read the Google Group messages and get a better picture of what is discussed there.

Quote

often the RA worm needing changed i think?

You think ... Where did you read that ? Please, guesses and assumptions are the parents of Gossips ...

You will not get happy as there is one think, some are testing new things for iOptron, see the infamous link you posted, and other happily imaging ...

Do yourself a favor as you are biased and scared about problems with the CEM 120 and go for other alternatives you can go with 10micron, Astro Physics, Paramount, ASA all " Premium " mounts ... OK they cost the double or the triple but you will be happier 🤔

Just an honest tip. I have seen people so scared after reading all sort of problems and without having tried anything they bought the alleged troublemaker mount and never got Happy ...

Believe you Brain will betray you ...

best regards Rainer

40 minutes ago, MakeItSo said:

Hi Rainer,

how easy are those mounts to set and use?

Hi,

As easy or as difficult as any other Ecuatorial mount brand.

Do you have experience with an Ecuatorial mount ? If yes then you have nothing to be afraid of. I am 66 years old 168 cm short, not in good shape, and managed to lift up the mounts onto both of my piers and they are high, one is 1.65 meter and the other one 1.55 meter (measured to the top of the aluminum plate). The mount weighs without counterweight shaft about 26 kg. The CW shaft is about 4.5 kg.

You set it on your pier. Level it as best as you can. Adjust your North pointing by moving Azimuth and altitude hardware adjustements. They are quite precise. Azimuth has a 3' arc minute scale and Altitude has a 0.5' arc minute scale and once set up the position are very accurate for repetitiveness.

If you better post your specific doubt it is easier for me to answer.

I have both drift aligned with the Guiding software PHD2. I tetsed Polar ALignemtn with SHarpCap and aslo have a QSY PoleMaster. While they also align your mounts the best accuracy is with Drift Align. OK, you need to invest time for Drift Align but being permanent in an Observatory you perhaps will check Alignment every 4 or 6 months.

Having encoder on RA makes you guiding more comfortable as you do not deal with Periodic Error and just correct for Polar Aligment drift and Atmospheric refraction drift and NO encoders are not for unguided imaging 🤨 IMHO. OK you can make unguided images but after a session of 3-4 hours you will see drift in your images getting worse the nearer you approach the horizon.

Just ask and I will try to answer your questions.

JMHO and YMMV

Rainer

Hi,

I do not know the CGX-L nor the Skywatcher EQ 8 but I know for sure the Losmandy G11 and the CEM 120EC2.

Do not touch the Losmandy G11GT as the backlash problem is not solved here. Believe. I did fight with that for the last 16 years 😎 I even invented a floating worm systen for the G11 15 years ago.

Now since Novemeber 2018 I installed two iOptron CEM 120EC2 mounts inmy observatory and I could not be happier. 

On one mount I have a Mewlon 250S side by side with a SKY 90 as well as a FSQ 85ED and the counterweight shaft carries 54 kg of counterweights.

I do not know how much your SCT 14 weighs and the 130mm + all other but I would bet that you can set it up all on a CEM 120. I would get the EC model and if you can afford it go up to the EC2 and you are done for the rest ? of your life ...

I do not recommend exchanging too often the telescopes ...

But as always I am stronlgy biased toward iOptron and is JMHO 🤔

regards Rainer