ollypenrice

I've got two EQ sixes and they work remarkably well. I'm not really knocking them but the fact remains that I would rather have spent another hundred quid on the finer details of finish, like having a properly cleaned interior. Also providing proper instructions regarding maintenance etc would be a simple courtesy to their huge customer base. I don't see myself flinching on either of these points.

Olly

If only they would put a hundred quid on the price and make them properly. So near and yet so far.

Olly

Excellent! Quite recently I posted a Heads Up pointing to folding garages as a solution to semi permanent setups. I came across them simply because I have a nice little car which I'd like to keep for a long time but with no garage. I have plenty of observatories but I thought, 'Observatory' as soon as I saw them. I'm really pleased you've given them a try. I sent my thoughts to an astro supplier, too. I wouldn't be surprized to see an astro-dedicated version of this idea appear at some point. I really reckon that this has a lot to offer.

Olly

Always, always,always balance and align to the very very best you possibly can. 

Well, I don't necessarily agree. If running unguided then, yes, the best possible alignment is best. But if running guided, a slight misalignment allows you to run the autoguide Dec corrections in one direction only and this can remove the problem of Dec oscillation. I have to do this on one of our mounts routinely.

As for balance, like many people I like to run just a little heavy on the east to keep the backlash down. In perfect balalnce the payload can float around in the backlash.

Frugal, if your stars are sometimes round then the problem is not PA. That would affect every single sub in the same way. It usually shows as a rotation in the corners.

Olly

http://ollypenrice.smugmug.com/Other/Best-of-Les-Granges/22435624_WLMPTM#!i=2266922474&k=Sc3kgzc

Great dedication ,what's the longest image time wise for amatuer s ?

Pat

Oh, a lot!

Olly

Looks good. We see lots of Rapidos in France and, indeed, I saw one for sale recently. We went for a tiny Eriba Puck pop top instead, in the end, but it has a fraction of the space yours has.

Olly

Wow. Insanity rocks. When I grow up, I wanna be like Jonas.

Jonas is like Jonas because he isn't grown up!  Grown ups never do things because they are too busy explaining why they can't be done...

Olly

I'm looking forward to hosting this beast!

Olly

Obviously marvellous. I know that fine resolution was the name of your game here but I also love the overall look and feel of the brightnesses and colour. They make the galaxy look eerie and dramatic.

Great stuff.

Olly

This is an exciting scope in good hands. I'm keen on the Tak FSQ 106 but it is vulnerable in one key area; it is ultra-sensitive to fucus drift during temperature change and in many environments it isn't realistic to use the later ones without robotic focus between subs. The same appears to be true of the TeleVue NP101, though this is based only on one example I've seen. So, Vixen, have you cracked this problem? If so, you'll induce some disloyalty, maybe, from the Tak camp!

Tim, I hope you'll give it a spin in RGB because NB won't test the correction. You'll love the field with your Atik 11000. It just makes me chuckle every time a new target appears on the screen...

Olly

Sorry, but I don't believe aperture rules. It would rule if all else were equal, but it isn't. Not by a million miles.

Olly

For purely visual use I would go for a large aperture (and high quality) binocular. From a dark site I could see more galaxies/DSOs using both eyes through my Miyauchi ED binos (20-30x, 80mm) than I could with a 10" LX200 using one eye.  There is something about using both eyes together where the result is better than merely adding the two images together. Recommend you try looking through a pair if you get the chance.

ChrisH

Hmmm, I thnk this may vary from person to person. I have a lazy eye and don't find anything too spectacular happens when I use a binoviewer or large binoculars. Exactly what effect a binocular has on 'light grasp' is pretty mysterious. It certainly dosen't have the effect of doubling it. Close one eye and the view doesn't get dimmer. It's a difficult question. Some really love using both eyes but it doesn't do much for me, really.

Olly

Ah, now a 16 inch is what you CALL an SCT!

Olly

Thanks for the replies guys, they're very helpful.

David, I'm definitely leaning toward the FS 128. There is one currently available and the size/cost is appealing to me at this stage.

Olly, the NP101 is also very tempting. Would you think it'd be worth owning purely as a visual scope? Who knows, perhaps one day I might try my hand at imaging (never say never) but it seems unlikely at this point in time. I have neither the knowledge, skill or patience for it at this stage. I must say, the TEC140 looks like a great scope and has some great reports. However, there don't seem to be any australian distributors of this particular telescope, so the cost will blow out considerably if I purchase one and have it imported here.

Chris, I'm sure I've left out a HEAP of suitable scopes, mainly due to what is currently available to me. However, I'd love to hear what others you guys feel I should throw into the mix. This being said, I'd ideally like for it to be either a Tak or TV. Not hellbent on this, but it's definitely my preference.

Peter, so you'd advise to go for the FS 128 or are you suggesting I go for a lesser quality telescope than all I'm currently considering in lieu of as large an aperture as possible? Bare in mind, I do also own a 10" LX90.

Thanks again guys.

For me the TeleVue would be worth it if you love ultra-widefield views. You can get the TV down to about 15x but if you are happy with the still considerable FOV the larger refractors would offer you then I'd go for one of those.

While I can't argue with Peter's physics or his expertise, I generally prefer the planetary views in our TEC140 to those of our Meade 10 inch SCT. There are nights when the SCT wins but more often than not I'd go for the TEC. The problem s that eyes are very personal things!

Be warned, I'm one of those crackpots with an irrational love of refractors!

Olly

I've used a Genesis on my Gibraltar and found it OK, but not over mounted at high magnification. Since planetary views are lovely on great apos I prefer a tracking mount. For widefield it doesn't matter and the push-pull simplicity is nice and Dob-like.

The big plus of the 101 is the short FL giving vast views of targets like the entire Veil, the Pleiades in context, the Double Cluster with Stock 2 etc etc. If you love this kind of view the 101 is the one! However, if you want to go deeper and  are not so fussed about ultra wide fields then you'd be paying a fortune for a photographic flat field which you don't intend to use.

I don't know the newer Tak triplets but I'm sure that both the old 128 and the 120 triplet would be great.

You haven't considered a TEC140 Triplet Apo? These really are quite something as well. Ours is fine on an NEQ6.

Olly

Olly, you have email

Much appreciated, Steve. Many thanks,

Olly

I must say that apart from all the hassle Olly has had with his mount, i'm impressed with the responses from FLO. Shame i can't say the same for the other suppliers i've personally ordered stuff from. Items 'lost in transit' and others arriving damaged etc etc...  currently running at 2 purchases and 2 dissattisfied outcomes.

I think any future purchases i make  will be going to FLO just by how they've handled this situation.

Absolutely. No question whatever. The only hassle I've had, be it said, is that the Dec wormwheel is unsatisfactory. I can see the EQ8 doing well in the future.

Olly

You shouldn't need to do any of that Olly and we haven't discussed your mount with Skywatcher (it's Christmas) so we don't yet know what their response will be. Our response has been to offer a free collection and full refund. You have received our first faulty EQ8, we don't want you to be inconvenienced and you clearly are not pleased with your choice so if you let us know when we can collect we'll make the arrangements. No fuss, no nonsense and no drama

Steve

Very much appreciated Steve. I'll be happy to consider the matter amicably closed and I repeat that I'm very sorry indeed that this has been a problem for you. FLO's reputation stands as high as ever. It will take me a while to get it all packed up again ready for return so I'll let you know when I have had the chance to do that. We're night and day this week, here, and maybe next, so bear with me.

Olly

There's another UK eccentric worm wheel reported on SGL, Steve, and quite a few around the net. There is also Skywatchers' admission that they have not made them truly concentric and did not implement the spring loading of the drive which would have been a work around. As for advising their customers to solve the problem by running the Dec out of balance... try it. Dec balance isn't like RA balance. What might be out of balance at low elevations falls into balance on the zenith (e.g. a vertical scope cannot be camera end heavy) so the out-of-balance factor is not constant.  However, I placed my order precisely because most people seemed pretty happy so I don't really disagree with you. As I've said on this and Dark Matter's thread I don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

I'm genuinely sorry that this impacts on you at FLO as well as on me. It is neither your fault nor mine. You've been great about it and I'm trying to give a tempered response to having spent about a week pointlessly disassembling two setups in hopes of combining them into one, then having to rebuild and re-tune them both.

Olly

I'm not an engineer but I can only concur. 

Olly

I'm not known for being the voice of reason, but here goes. The EQ8 is a mass produced unit, not a hand built Mega expensive unit. In any mass production run there is a failure rate, which will be balanced against the cost of decreasing the failure rate. Now whilst, from a PR point of view, sending a poor mount to a guy that is well known in the community and that will use the mount in a commercial environment, was a bad move, it probably reflects the nature of the selling model (stack 'em high....).

Unless these mounts start failing all over the place, then, probably, these should be dealt with in the normal way that any failure of a mass produced item would be dealt with-replace the unit.

Its regrettable (especially from a PR point of view) and it is extremely annoying to be on the receiving end of it. I'm sure that FLO will sort the job out.

This is fair, Id say. However, the consumer has a role in determining the cost of the failure rate. Make it too easy for the manufacturers and the failure rate cost goes down and the failure rate goes up... 

Olly

Im unsure where to go with all this concidering that Ive not had first light with this mount, My plan for a while is to load this mount up and have all my eggs in one basket, I checked the full rotation of the dec and there is loosness at one part and none in the opposite which indicates the same issue other have with their mounts.  There is also some play in the RA.  I had a quick look through the manual last night and there seems to be a backlash compensation option on the hand controler, also Im sure my guiding software AA5 has a backlash compensation option too?  Should I bite the bullet and contact the deal and send it back or carry on till first light .  Problem is I send this back I have no mount.

Firstly I'd read the SW answer on Dark Matter's CN thread and see if you agree with my interpretation in the post above.. http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=6269957&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=all&fpart=1&vc=&PHPSESSID=  Although they haven't replied to my emails yet, this is a farily open answer and is informative.

Can you use Dec backlash compensation to resolve the issue? Yes and No;

Yes, you can inform AA5 of the delay in response and it will try to allow for this.

Yes, if you have a deliberate polar misalignment you can disable guiding in one direction. This will stop the guider tossing the scope back and forth across the backlash in a perpetual oscillation. I'm using this method on one mount here at the moment. It's a temporary fix till I adjust the worm. 

No, this fix won't work in the wind.

No, on the EQ8 the Dec backlash varies during the rotation so one backlash compensation value cannot be right throughout the rotation. It will need recalibrating during the run.

Olly

Steve, I was trying to give you a break over Christmas! No rush.

I also wanted (and still want) to do more homework. A SW reply to Dark Matter is remarkably open. It's at the bottom of this thread. http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=6269957&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=all&fpart=1&vc=&PHPSESSID=

My interpretation with only a little reading between the lines;

1) They have either failed to make, or cannot make, the centering of the Dec worm wheel accurately enough. The answer is to set mesh at the highest point and let the backlash do its worst at the lowest. If the offset is 'tiny' as they say in the thread then OK. Ours cannot be described as tiny, and it may be even worse than it seems, viz...

At the high point ours feels tight and the motor gets warm. If this is so then the worm will have to backed away from the wheel, making the Dec backlash even worse. I've asked how to measure amp draw on a different thread but if anyone sees this and can tell me, then great. This is to find out if, indeed, the mesh is too tight and likely to seize the drive as in Dark Matter's case.

2) They realize that they should have spring loaded the drives to allow for this. Expect a redesign at some point, maybe?

Olly

Well, at some point one loses interest. Whatever 'Skywatcher' or 'Synta' is, they don't understand QC. I'll stop there for now. If you buy an Astrophysics product the buck stops at Roland Christen. If you buy a TEC it stops at Yuri Petrunin. If you buy a Takahashi it doesn't stop if you don't speak japanese. You just have to rely on their QC. Buy their optics but not their mounts.

Interestingly, EQ8 discussion on the French forum is very much along the lines of, 'Hey, it's cheap, what do you expect?' That is why I don't buy things in France. There seems to be no culture of, 'You are selling it so it has to work. If it doesn't, take it back.' The EQ8 I just bought cost 3/5 of the price of the new car I bought seven years ago and which has delivered seven years of solid service with no signs of not delivering seven more. For goodness' sake, this is not a tripod with a head motorized in two directions, it is a car with a turbocharged, fuel injected engine, ABS brakes, airbags, electric windows, sound system, catalytic converter...

Olly

It would be interesting to know more about the relationship between 'Skywatcher' in Canada (whoever they really are) and the factories in China who produce for them. I'm pretty sure that this is where the problem lies. I doubt that Skywatcher are delighted to have rubbish served up under their name but they don't seem to be very good at doing anything about it. The most cursory glance at the mount I received would have said, No. That is not right.

They cannot possibly be producing so many mounts that it would be impossible to check them properly. Let's say that the factories who churn out the stuff just want to see it gone and get paid. That is probably a safe bet. (I do know someone importing from Chinese factories in a different field.) The key thing is, Why are they not checked? Skywatcher stuff is drop shipped. In general the dealers don't see it. So who the hell does see it? Do Skywatcher have people on the ground in China checking it or have they just signed a specification contract with a factory and counted on them to meet it? If this is the case they need a major change in management policy. If it isn't the case, why is QC so absurdly unsatisfactory?

Speak to us Skywatcher. I'll document my unreplied emails after the Christmas period because, fair enough, it is Christmas.

I'm very upset for FLO because for some time I have sincerely wanted to give them a good sized order and it has backfired. Not their fault. Most upsetting. From my own point of view I have enough good mounts to satisfy my immediate guests so it isn't a crisis and I don't intend to pretend that it is. It's just a disappointment.

Olly