SteveNickolls

Wow Ian,

That is absolutely gorgeous, the colours are brilliant and the image has a glass like quality-very well done. Splendid. Will see if the main monitor shows even better detail (I'm on the tiny Hudl right now).

Cheers,

Steve

17 minutes ago, Herzy said:

I recently bought an AT72ED. It fits in my SLT mount holster and is pretty light so it should do well. I have an EQ mount, but the thing is so heavy and I get fed up with taking it out to a dark site (I have to separate it into many pieces and wrap them all in blankets), so being able to use the alt/az, which is much lighter, will be nice. 

As for CA on the scope, it's not that bad. It's an ED doublet refractor (not fully apochromatic). I would highly recommend this to anyone wanting to get into refractor astrophotography on an altaz mount.

---

Just a short review incase someone reading this thread was thinking about getting a refractor.

Hi Herzy,

Thanks for this post. I sometimes muse over getting a 'better' telescope to replace my achromat 102mm Startravel if just to remove the purple halo around brighter stars in my images. StarTools does a good job of altering the colour so my discontent has not been sufficient to make me move towards a replacement. I will be interested then to see how your 72mm ED doublet performs for you and good look with your future imaging. Alt-Az gear generally has the edge being lighter and more transportable.

Cheers,
Steve

21 minutes ago, Nigel G said:

Steve, that's fabulous I love it. Got to start saving ☺

I'm just about to remove the infared filter in my camera, got clear sky's tonight and it's Friday.  Hope it goes well otherwise I'll be observing. 

Nige. 

Thanks Nige, I wish I had the capability to remove a IR filter from a DSLR, it would worry me what all the left over screws were meant for :-) Good luck with your mod. Hmmm, there's mostly cloud up here but things look promising Sunday night so my fingers will be crossed.

Enjoy imaging tonight.

Cheers,
Steve

42 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

I just want to add that Steve to me that is a super image we shouldn't also lose sight that this is a star travel refractor and the processing has removed any obvious CA, your improvements in processing are leaps and bounds forward I have much to catch up with.

Thanks for your very kind comments. I must in fairness admit that the Heart and Soul Nebulae image was taken with my Canon Camera piggybacked on the Startravel so the CA of the telescope doublet wouldn't have been an issue.

Cheers,
Steve

1 hour ago, The Admiral said:

I've just had a quick look at this and I must say there is a dramatic improvement to the nebula in his example. Well spotted Steve! I'll need to have a go some time. It does seem that ST can offer an awful lot, if only you know how to use all of its features!

Ian

Yes, there's much, much more to be used and teased out in StarTools. I've not used the HEAL module before but it will certainly be incorporated into the mix. BTW I followed Ivo's guide after importing my last TIFF back into ST's I didn't go through the whole processing route. Should mean we all have a lot of back catalogue images just itching for reprocessing in HEAL so ideal when we keep getting these clouded out nights.

Cheers,
Steve

That's very good going Ken, the nebulosity is very evident.

Best Regards,
Steve

4 minutes ago, Filroden said:

It's definitely much clearer - you can see the full extent of the Heart Nebula now. Wavelets are great for pulling apart an image into different structures and giving you the control to sharpen/noise reduce only those structures you really want to (whether it be the lowest wavelets to reduce noise or the higher wavelets to improve sharpness or contrast). It took me a while to wrap my head around wavelets (having first come across it processing planetary images) but now I think it's a great tool along with various masks.

Thanks for this Ken, there's a way to go with StarTools but this has lifted me at just the right moment through the glass ceiling I felt I was up against. Good luck by the way with your new camera, I'm sure we are all looking on at how improved your results are going to be.

Cheers,
Steve

Hi,

I have followed the ST's guide I posted above and used it to wavelet sharpen (SHARP module) the nebulosity in my Heart and Soul image. It does look different on my monitor but interested what anyone else can see regarding a better image.

Original-

New-

It appears (here) brighter and more detail within the nebulosity plus the stars look brighter.

Cheers,
Steve

This morning I've stumbled over this reference for StarTools concerning processing stars and background independently in the HEAL module, could prove very valuable-http://forum.startools.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=244 

Will give it a workout later today.

Cheers,
Steve

Hope it all works out in the end Ken. Technology is marvelous when it works but sucks when it fails. Look forward to seeing your image. We had visitors tonight so no gear set up but it's clouding over now, and I'm tired :-)

Cheers,

Steve

Hi All,

I've reprocessed the Heart and Soul Nebula image this time taking more time with mask before using the COLOR module and the LIFE module. I used the option to draw the outline of the nebulosity then grow the mask. I used the same mask for the COLOR module (inverted) and returned the mask to normal for use in the LIFE module. I also used 'less=more' option rather than 'isolate'. I'm now going to lie down...

Cheers,
Steve

2 minutes ago, Filroden said:

If I remember right, DSS has tabs you can load your different length subs into and it works it out from there. In PixInsight it scales the darks to match the lights (so long as the dark is at least as long as the longest light) as dark current should scale linearly. 

I've just taken a set of 120s darks as that covers me for anything I can do with my mount. 

Thanks for this Ken, very useful to know.

Cheers,
Steve

9 hours ago, Nigel G said:

"...I need to take some flats and a few more darks to add to the stack,( Why didn't I think of doing that sooner) I'd given up hope with it as the noise and mainly gradients are awful.  The extra darks and flats might do the trick." 

 

Nige.

Unsure how many flat frames and dark frames you already have but x50 of each will be fine. Again unsure what you do to combine different dark frame lengths when you have different light frame lengths as I have never tried that approach. Good luck trying. Do let us know how you get on.

Cheers,
Steve

9 hours ago, The Admiral said:

Yup, I can see it now! Always helps to be able to reveal the target object in the image .

Ian

He, he perhaps I have discovered a new mask tool for StarTools.  Now if only I could invert it...!

Thanks everyone for the help btw. 

Cheers,
Steve

Hi Ian,

 I have PM'd you over the likely cause of my DSS settings being different (I think it's because I have been reworking off some old DSS lists when I was experimenting with settings).

In the dim past when I worked on my first M31 image last December I tried both options in StarTools. However I have for a long time since only used the 'Linear, Was Bayered, Is not white balanced' (second) option in StarTools. As I mentioned earlier I think the change in DSS settings occurred very recently.

Here's the reworked Heart and Soul Nebulae image after changing the DSS settings back and then reprocessing the resulting file in StarTools and using Nige's mask ideas. The nebulosity is more pronounced-yes?

Cheers,
Steve

Thanks for that Ian,

I've checked my DSS settings and changed the, Per channel background calibration as 'no'. I'm going to reprocess my latest image of the Heart and Soul Nebulae and see if there's any noticeable change. I was sure I'd followed the suggested settings, though couldn't recall specific ones, it goes to show.

Cheers,
Steve

Hi Nige,

Thanks so much for this. Not tried the similar brightness or colour mask options so will give them a go, I think it also might be that I rush the mask step and then am unhappy with the end result, I need to be more precise. I'm also interested by what Ivo has said regarding Alt-Az images. I'd considered StarTools as being in somewhat of a dichotomy-meant to appeal both to advanced users (I took that to be the EQ hardened souls) as an alternative to the other products out there and beginners as StarTools was also, "attempting to lower the bar to entry into astrophotography". As a beginner I mistakenly interpretted that to mean Alt-Az imaging-Doh! 

In an interview made available on the Internet- https://www.reddit.com/r/astrophotography/comments/1n7p63/im_ivo_jager_uverylongtimelurker_author_of/

There Ivo makes it plain- 

"AP is for everyone, and I wanted to remedy a certain air of elitism that I felt hung around some communities;

• just because you've been doing AP for years, sunk a lot of money into it, or know how to operate a certain piece of software, doesn't mean that your work or opinions are automatically superior or even good.

• just because you haven't been doing AP for years, haven't sunk a lot of money into it, or don't know how to operate a certain piece of software, doesn't mean that your work or opinions are automatically inferior or bad.

• 'just buy a better mount' is not an acceptable answer to a request for help with, for example, rounding stars, nor is suggesting that anyone's efforts are inferior just because people have to make concessions to budget, imaging time, location or otherwise due to their circumstances - some of us have day jobs to take into account, some of us have families to spend quality time with, some of us have limited means, live in rentals, etc.

In short, I wanted to do away with the notion that you needed to have been "paying your dues" to get anywhere in this field. I wanted to create something that leveled the playing field a little - something that gave newbies a running start (ease of use) and ameliorated the influence of investment into time (learning curve), into gear (software solutions to hardware problems) and up-front money (ST is cheap and not-for-profit - I don't cover development and support costs by a longshot)."

I hear what you say about the YouTube video Nige and am enthused Ivo wants to see some of our images as he may be able to develop StarTools a little along what we need or give advice to us. I guess at the end of the day our data will mostly be among the poorest, quality-wise to develop considering the restrictions Alt-Az work places on data collection, but that's also part of the challenge-right? It will be fascinating to see what comes of this.

This is a market area that has somewhat of a vacuum in it right now-but it's a cheaper, accessible starting point for many and a good way to dip your toes into the practical world of astro-photography and see if it is for individuals. I see it as a market set to grow as mounts become more sophisticated and decent images can be made at the entry end of the hobby. Some of the equipment (the DSLR's are already in many households and thus) serve a dual purpose and help moderate costs. 

I hadn't seen the idea on the StarTools forum of stacking "Per channel background calibration as 'no'. Must take a look in DSS.

Good luck in your processing.

Cheers,
Steve

3 hours ago, Nigel G said:

"...Then straight into isolate , getting the mask for isolate is very tricky, can take quite some time but worth it.

I wonder what it would be like if I missed out wipe and went directly to isolate ??? hmm must try that now."

Cheers

Nige.

Hi Nige, after I've had some good, and some poor attempts using isolate in the StarTools' LIFE module can I ask what mask option you use for making your mask-is it the lasso or something else?

Cheers,
Steve

35 minutes ago, Nigel G said:

This is the image before any noise reduction work, Just binned, developed, cropped and a touch of HDR. and a load of noise

To me this looks much sharper but I loose the sharpness during noise reduction and further processing.

Theres a link to the fts at the bottom if anyone is bored and wants something to process  

 

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Av3mI1-jgAvwcIvZwbzjRcPwXIU

Thanks Nige,

I will give your image 'a go' later tonight, right now I'm sapped of the will to live with StarTools :-)

Cheers,
Steve

Hi Nige,

I know what you mean about making things worse when messing with them. I'm currently struggling with my image of the Heart and Soul Nebulae to tease the nebulosity out while trying to keep a dark background. Have you ever used the LAYER module? I wondered what it could be used to do in StarTools?

Cheers,
Steve

1 hour ago, Nigel G said:

Theres some great images being posted, well done chaps.

I seem to be loosing the noise battle atm. the last 3 images I have taken have had incredible noise levels. I'm not sure what has changed.

I took 3 hours of 60s exps of Heart and Soul with my 210mm lens, its impossible to work with.

I tried to image the Eastern Veil last night, I could only get about 20 minutes of 30sec subs before light cloud spoilt the session. I used darks and bias but again had a long battle with background noise, I'm struggling to work this out. I realise this is short on total exp time but I have imaged other objects with similar total time without the huge noise levels. I'm sure I'll sus it out, just hope its sooner rather than later.

Seeing appeared to be good and light pollution same as ever.

 Taking 3 hours of subs then 4 hours stacking for a screen full of multi coloured pixels is not what I had in mind . or perhaps I just forgot how to process.

Anyway enough of me moaning Here's my Veil neb, around 20 minutes of 30s, 15 darks 50 bias and a lot of post stacking work. DSS and StarTools.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Nige.

 

Hi Nige,

Just saw this, what a splendid image, you should feel very pleased with this indeed. I love the colour of the object and your dark background. Given the small amount of light frames you needed to image the object this is just the tonic for the rest of us to try. I'm trying to think why StarTools would not show the star colours, could you put the master image through the COLOR module or would it just create a lot of noise that way (might be a sign of just needing more light frames).

Cheers,
Steve

33 minutes ago, Nigel G said:

I read in " Making every photon count " I think, 12 - 15 dark frames and 50 bias is all that is needed, the darks are to remove hot pixels and sensor noise I believe. 

Maybe it's different for lots of short exposures?  

Hi Nige,

I think you've hit things directly on the head there, if you were taking just a few really long light frames with an EQ mount then a modest number of dark frames would be ok (especially as each dark frame takes the same length of time to take as a long light frame). For us with the Alt-Az gear Ian has the number of dark frames about right at around x50 or so. Having said all this I'm now not using dark frames at all as a trial. My current thinking is that as I can't control the temperature of the DSLR sensor what am I actually doing taking dark frames, they might be making the images worse? 

Sometimes you find you go through a 'dark night of the soul' (no astro-pun intended) before coming out the other end the wiser for it all. With Alt-Az imaging we have to do everything the harder way, we take lots of short images with less S:N ratio, we have to accommodate field rotation effects and the constraints it places on the altitude of the object meaning we image through more atmosphere and light pollution, plus we often have come along this road because we don't live somewhere dark, can't afford the EQ gear or an observatory and maybe can't get out to a dark location if we wanted to or at least not often. If we didn't do this we would just be reading about it instead. We sometime push the boat out more than the gear and our experience to date can handle but the good thing is we can return to the master images later on when we are more proficient. Just keep your chin up, actually you're doing quite fine :-)

Cheers,
Steve

Last night I had another go imaging the Heart and Soul Nebulae region using my Canon 600D DSLR with the lens set at 100mm and piggybacked onto the SkyWatcher Startravel 102mm refractor/Synscan Alt-Az mount. The image below came from 124 light frames of forty five seconds each (ISO 800) plus x50 bias and x50 flat frames. I did not use dark frames. The frames were stacked in DSS and processed using StarTools. Also in the image is the Persus double cluster (at 3 o'clock position) and Stock 2 (Muscleman cluster). The open cluster NGC 1027 can be seen in the Heart Nebula.

Cheers,
Steve

Hi Ian,

These are really good images-well done. I think this shows how far you have come since last year. M31 is very colourful and shows the star forming areas nicely. I do like your Perseus Double cluster. Will you be imaging NGC 281 again to add to your existing 17 frames of data? When I attempted The Pacman Nebula last season I took x100 light frames at 40 seconds (ISO 1600) and it was still elusive if that helps judge the number of exposures you might want to try. I may have overlooked what you have recently posted Ian as I catch up but did you include dark frames when processing any of the three objects? Appreciate you can't easily post the FITs file for your M31 with your Internet connection.

Best Regards,
Steve

30 minutes ago, Stedi said:

I guess this is as good a thread as any to share my first serious imaging attempt

59x10s ISO400 subs stacked in IRIS with median option. I used Bias/Offset frames, can't remember if I ended up using dark frames or not for this. No Flats though and it shows

Mount: SW Allview, Telescope: SW Startravel 102, Camera: Canon 1000D controlled with BYEOS

RGB was corrected in IRIS and the final stretching was done in some old PS I had laying around.

Here is the link to the Tiff that is rgb corrected in IRIS but nothing else if you want to have a go at it.

https://1drv.ms/i/s!AlIly8wmzetAhk4Ia4Fr6eI4trWP

Thanks for posting, nice image. I'll try and have a go with the file but I'm away from my main pc right now. 

Cheers,

Steve