nige745
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Posts posted by nige745
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On 22/08/2024 at 11:08, John said:
Another couple of tips if I may 🙂
- For your first sessions with the scope pick easy to find and easy to see targets. Although 8 inches of aperture can seen quite faint targets, easy ones to start with such as M81 / M82, M57, M27, the double cluster in Perseus etc, etc will give you some satisfaction while honing your skills for the more challenging stuff.
- I find that ending a session with a familiar and easy to see target is more satisfying and motivating than leaving off after trying something harder and not quite getting it. It's good to leave yourself hungry for the next session I find 🙂
All and any tips are more than welcome! This is a great little bit of advice, especially to someone as new to this as me. Also ending a session on something familiar is a good idea. It is something that I am going to stick to. One thing I am particularly looking forward to finding is M104. It never occurred to me that I could actually see this galaxy with my own telescope! I have got so much to learn 🤯
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On 20/08/2024 at 18:40, John said:
Sorry - I missed your question.
I used some flocking as well as the light shield although I did not flock the whole inside of the tube. I flocked the area of the tube opposite the focuser and the inside of the tube for the 6-8 inches immediately above the primary mirror.
As I said in my earlier post I've not had any dewing issues with dobs so the half-moon light shield was purely to reduce ambient light impact on contrast, which it did, substantially.
Don't feel that you need to do all this stuff before you use the scope though - dob mods are generally incrementally added. Getting practical observing experience is just as important, if not more so 🙂
Watching another YouTube video & he flocked opposite the focuser & around its edge. I have seen others that flock the entire tube. Flocking 6-8 inches above the primary mirror is a good idea, although I would still have to remove the primary mirror (😬). I will have the odd bit of stray light when out in the garden. Only if I go right down the garden will it be totally light free. I need to find a space down there to be able to set my telescope up first.
Great advice about not doing all this before I use the scope! I want to see what it is like on its own before doing the modifications.
On 20/08/2024 at 20:21, bosun21 said:Exactly John. I would use your scope as it arrives and gain the vital observing skills you will be adding to for the rest of your years at the eyepiece. Adding the mods incrementally is what I did. That way you can discover what is clearly beneficial and what isn't.
Absolutely.
On 20/08/2024 at 21:27, Ratlet said:I agree with this. It's easy to go in with both feet and never use half the stuff. Get the dob and see how you get on.
I concur.
On 20/08/2024 at 22:00, PeterStudz said:I also fully agree. When I first got a small reflector I hurriedly and impatiently put it together without really knowing what I was doing. I hadn’t a clue about things like collimation and the RDF was put on back to front. However, it was a clear night and the moon was in a perfect position. I had a great first session and was not disappointed.
When I got an old second hand 8” Dob for free (it did not even have a base, and was way out of collimation). Again it was a clear night, so I propped it up on our garden sofa and randomly looked at some stars. The views were surprisingly decent.
Ha haa, I'm worried about setting stuff up correctly.
The first thing I will change is the finderscope. I've bought this already along with a Telrad & may mount that at the same time. I'm going to take all of this advice on board. The finderscope is not such a big mod and will make viewing through it easier as its right angled. All of the other bits & pieces I've got or want, I will add as time goes on. Seeing what the telescope does before them will give me a good baseline on how it performs & how the mods perform. Honestly, I can't thank you guys enough for all of the help & advice. I'm so glad I came here to SGL. I have no doubt I will be a regular question asker from now on!!!
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1 hour ago, bosun21 said:
I've made several dew shields in the past and a few failures. Using 1cm thick yoga mats I tried to make one for my 12" and 10" dobsonians but they continually sagged. I obviously needed some sort of velcro like @PeterStudz has done. I ended up having to buy proprietary dew shields for them. My 7" Maksutov on the other hand is just fine with the yoga mat on its own. I like my dew shields a bit longer than the store bought ones. I use dew heaters on my RACI.
From watching several YouTube videos, the thicker the foam the better. It increases stability and helps with insulation. I'm going for 10mm which looks a similar thickness to @900SL dew shield. One video suggested if the mat is ribbed, to put them on the inside to help disperse any stray light. Not too sure that this will make a difference, but I'm going to try it anyway.
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3 hours ago, PeterStudz said:
Hi @nige745… the yoga mat that I used is 4mm thick. I had a look on eBay but the exact one I ordered isn’t available anymore, but there must be others. I did a little write-up here…
If you have an iPhone I found that, with experimentation, it “ignores” any magnet that directly below. After all, there’s a damn great magnet built into the back of the phone. However, avoid anything remotely magnetic, even metal, to the sides.
I’ve used something often referred to as “taxi magnets” as counter weights. They are relatively heavy on their own, but you can (as I’ve done) add lead to the magnet via the handy bolt at the top. Here’s an example. You might be able to find them cheaper is you look around or by more than one or two.
I have a Samsung S22. It's really suspectable to the magnetic wallet case it's in. When I take the phone out of the case there's a massive difference. I first thought there was an issue with the phone until I looked online.
The taxi magnets are a good idea. I was thinking about hanging some weights from the bottom of the OTA and they would work fine.
3 hours ago, 900SL said:I just put a dew shield together from cheap cell foam camping mat. Cut it to a slight taper and fitted round the focuser. It's lightweight foam and holds its shape well. Measure once, cut twice 😆
That looks spot on. I like how you've stuck the edges together, it's very neat. I am going to use @PeterStudz idea of putting veneer around the foam, but I'm going to try some sticky back plastic vinyl or wallpaper instead of the veneer as it's quite a bit cheaper.
In my case, I usually measure 3 or 4 times 😉
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4 hours ago, PeterStudz said:
Thanks! The dew shields are homemade and made out of a black yoga mat with thin veneer bonded together with Evosik contact cement. However, it was not planned quite this way. On its own I found that the yoga mat that I brought was too thin and floppy. So I stuck on some very thin veneer that I had down my shed. The veneer was originally for model aircraft wings. It’s easy to make your own just out of a yoga mat or camping mat. Just make sure it’s thick enough! If you search this site and the internet you should see plenty of DIY examples. And Evostik sticks the mat together really well. Out of interest - the veneer is lighter than the plastic mat - so you get a lighter overall dew shield.
I find dew shields invaluable. Not just for keeping dew at bay (getting dew on the finder is annoying too), but for keeping out any stray light. For planetary I find this vital as you are going for very subtle differences in colour contrast.
The phone mount is a combination of a bicycle/motorcycle handlebar phone mount plus a tripod phone adapter. I have a handle on my Dob which I’ve used as the “handlebar” to attached the adapter. It was from eBay, although offhand I’m not exactly sure where. However, you can use a smartphone tripod adapter or bicycle/motorcycle adapter. I have found that the all metal motorcycle type to be the best. And try and avid those that rely on a spring to secure the phone - they are fiddly and risk the OTA being moved when you install/remove the phone.
If you don’t want to drill holes etc you can used a strong double sided tape to attach the adapter to OTA. When I first tested the app I just stuck my iPhone directly to the OTA using the magnets on the back. Surprisingly it worked very well, but I always had the worry that it would be knocked off. But thinking about it there’s the possibility of making a more secure magnetic holder out of bits of wood. The wood, or whatever, preventing the phone sliding and also possibly falling off.
I've looked into dew shields since asking you, as with so many other bits/things/zooms/eyepieces...…!🙃 My head hurts, in a good way, sort of.
I've ordered a black 10mm thick yoga mat already. I really like the look of your shields. They look smart & also don't appear to sag, which is something I was worried about. Putting thin veneer on is a great idea.
I realised after asking about the phone mount my dob doesn't have a handle on it like yours. I've bought a cheap gel phone case which I'm going to stick some Velcro to the back of. I've also got some Velcro straps to go around the OTA. I will stick the gel case to those straps, hopefully. I thought about using magnets, but my phone seems to be quite sensitive to magnets which affects the phones compass.
Also found myself a similar adjustable stool. I think I have nearly spent as much on extra bits as the scope cost me. I have tried to be frugal and have nowhere near bought the expensive stuff. I had absolutely no idea how much everything cost & there's quite a bit of stuff I haven't even got yet 😬
4 hours ago, JOC said:FWIW I tried dew shield on my 8" Skywatcher Dob and found that yoga mats were far too heavy and completely over-rode the 'sticktion' that kept the telescope pointed at the target without sagging at the nose. In the finish I purchased a commercial one second hand which was far lighter and fit for purpose.
I am going to make a counterbalance from some tiny dumbbells and neodymium magnets wrapped in a microfibre cloth. Might not be the prettiest of things but it serves a purpose. Got the idea from Reflactor on YouTube:
Thank goodness for Google & YouTube!
3 hours ago, PeterStudz said:Replacing the finder, adding a Telrad, smartphone, large 2” eyepiece… can all upset the balance. Although when I looked into dew shields some of the commercial ones are surprisingly heavy too. If it bothers you ask the weight before purchase.
However, the Bresser Dobs have nice, big, “proper” altitude bearings plus tube rings which makes it easy to balance before a session.
This is why I'm making a counterbalance.
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5 minutes ago, John said:
I don't use a smartphone but the other stuff does add weight so I did use a counterweight system at the other end of the scope tube. Mine was a magnetic strip to which I could attach / remove weights as needed.
I never found a dew shield necessary on my dobs but I do use a light shield to keep ambient light away from the top of the tube where it can illuminate the secondary mirror / mirror supports / focuser drawtube which leads to reduced contrast when observing deep sky objects.
My light shield was of a "half moon" design and held on with velcro tape around the tube.
Does the light shield do the same as flocking? Surprise, surprise, I've not heard of a light shield 😆
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2 hours ago, PeterStudz said:
Don’t forget dew shields which obviously also add weight to the front.
Personally I’m not a fan of having a phone near eyepiece/finder. It just gets in the way as well as adding more weight to the front. I mount my phone towards the centre of balance. Works well, doesn’t get in the way and doesn’t noticeably unbalance the OTA when you remove/add phone.
That looks really good! I had forgotten about dew shields 🙄 What are they made out of & did you buy them or make them?
That's a great idea with the phone mount, where did you get it from and how have you mounted it to the OTA?
I also like the adjustable stool.
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2 minutes ago, Zermelo said:
Yes, that looks identical to the ones I bought.
Brilliant, I'll order one. There's so many things I didn't factor in to all of this. I was contemplating getting a 12" dob at first. I got lots of advice on SGL with my first post. Really glad I didn't get the 12" for a few reasons. One of those is the amount of other stuff I need for my scope that I just didn't consider or to be more precise, just didn't know about.
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5 minutes ago, John said:
I needed to keep the weight / bulk down on the upper end of that scope. Some of my eyepieces weighed 1kg+ !
I also found the eye positioning with the Rigel fitted in better with the 8x50 RACI finder so I could move from the Rigel to the RACI and then to the eyepiece smoothly.
I've owed a few Telrads and they work well enough - just a bit bulky for what they are.
Wow 1kg! I didn't even know they could weigh that much. I'm finding out lots of stuff I didn't know!
I've been reading another post https://astro.catshill.com/finding-and-finder-scopes/ not read it all yet. It mentions: "Do bear in mind that adding a RACI (480g), Telrad (308g) and a smartphone plus bracket will move the centre of balance. A counterweight on the opposite side (I use a magnet) will help especially when the OTA is near horizontal."
This seems a good idea?
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10 minutes ago, Zermelo said:
The Synta-style shoes are available from dozens of sellers on the auction sites, mostly coming from China and costing as little ss £8. I have found them to be very secure (I only buy the ones with two screws to hold the finder).
I have replaced three or four Bresser shoes with these, but the spacing of the Bresser mounting screws is just too large for the shoes as supplied. I extend the slots in the shoes with a needle file.
If you'd rather not do that, one of the adapters mentioned above might be better for you. I've noted these in the past, some are plastic and some alloy; I would steer clear of the plastic ones. It's hard to judge in advance how stable the 3-way would be when used with them.
I was looking for a shoe with 2 screws to hold the finder. The one pictured is off Amazon £7.99 & gets good reviews.
I'm glad you mentioned the needle file & extending the slots. I will do the same if the screws don't match up 👍
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2 minutes ago, John said:
Yes. I agree though that having one of those plus 2 finders hanging off it might be less than ideal.
Personally I'd replace the Bresser finder foot with a Skywatcher compatible one and abandon using the Bresser finder.
I'm definitely going to replace the Bresser finder.
Is there a reason you decided to have a Rigel QF instead of a Telrad?
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23 minutes ago, John said:
You can get an adapter to fit Skywatcher type finders to Bresser / Meade finder shoes. They are on e.bay for around £12 I seem to recall. The alternative is to replace the Bresser finder shoe with a Skywatcher compatible one.
I've looked at these adapters. I was worried that I would have my 3 way, in an adapter, in a shoe & was worried about the stability?
Is this the type of adapter you were referring to?
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24 minutes ago, Stu_53N_002W said:
The finder scope is very similar to my StellaLyra 8x 50 which I like. Finder scopes really help nail down targets far more than naked eye red dot type. Although the red dot does do the ball park.
I also have the threeway bracket with StarSence and a red dot. Not used in anger yet but sturdy enough. However, I'm only looking through one, the StarSence is just a camera. It's also mounted on a 6" SCT so a bit of space to view from.
The right angle is a good choice for a dobsonian.
I have looked at the StellaLyra 8x 50. I chose the Sky-Watcher due to the it being only £6 more & the reviews were better.
I have been advised by 'Second Time Around' to get a cheap SSE scope & mount the phone bracket on my Dob.
Now I've seen Louis phone mount I am now thinking I could use one with AstroHopper on it instead?
The right angle will save my creaking back a bit, I hope.
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10 minutes ago, Louis D said:
Here's a couple of variations of what I mount in 3-way finder mount:
RACI/GLP/QuikFinder
RACI/SkEye on phone/QuikFinder
Solar observing: Solar Filtered RACI and Solar Projection Finder
They look great and is what I'm looking to do. I was going to go for a Telrad. Is there a reason why you chose a QuikFinder?
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20 minutes ago, Louis D said:
You're going to need to replace the finder shoe/base with just a regular Vixen/Synta dovetail finder shoe (mounting base). As long as you never plan to mount the Bresser finder again, you don't need to buy the hybrid style shoe.
I thought I might need a dovetail finder shoe. The shape of the bottom of the shoe on my scope looks different to the one you posted. The shoe on my scope looks angled at the sides. I haven't received the scope yet so I can only go on photos from the sellers site. I was worried that a flat shoe might not fit properly, this is why I'm asking.
I also don't intend on using the Bresser finderscope.
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Hello SGL folks.
I want to replace the finderscope for a better one. I am looking at buying the https://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/skywatcher-9x50-right-angled-erecting-finderscope.html.
I would like to mount the finderscope on a https://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/astro-essentials-3-way-finder-shoe-base.html.
This gives me extra space for a Telrad & something else, not sure what yet.
Can you advise me what shoe/base I will need to mount the the 3 way finder onto the OTA? Would it be one of these https://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/explore-scientific-hybrid-finder-scope-base-black.html?
Is there a difference between a shoe & a base or are they one of the same?
Is this finderscope a decent choice?
Is the 3 way finder a good idea?
Thanks.
Nigel
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I've bit the bullet and after loads of umming and arrring have bought the 8" Bresser. A really big thank you to everyone who has commented on this post and helped me come to this decision. I didn't expect to have as many people respond and put their input in, to help me. You guys are pretty cool! I'm really glad I came here as I might have ended up with a scope that I wouldn't really use and have been put off something I have wanted to do properly for ages.
I've still got lots of questions to ask.
I'm going to ask them on a different post from this one.
Thanks again folks.
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1 hour ago, Ratlet said:
I've done a few for people on the forum (cost +postage +hobnob tax), or if you have your own printer you can print your own
Thanks for the info, it's really good to know. I think the hobnob tax is a must and very reasonable! 😃
I don't have a printer myself but could get access to one through work.
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35 minutes ago, Second Time Around said:
The Starsense Explorer mounts on a finder fitting (called a shoe) and so can easily be moved from scope to scope. I've amended my earlier post to reflect this.
You'd normally be using the scopes separately.
No, you wouldn't need another finder or a Telrad. If you go with this 2 scope solution I'd suggest you keep the 6x30 straight through finder on the Bresser and the red dot finder that comes with the Starsense Explorer on the refractor. You can then use these to align the Starsense Explorer unit so it's pointing in the same direction as each scope.
Are you talking about the StarSense phone mount going on to the Bressner? Is this where the 3d printer comes in? I hope I've got this right!
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4 hours ago, Astronomist said:
IMHO there isnt a lot to choose between any of the current dobsonian offerings, but personally I'd buy an 8" Bresser due to marginally better build quality and reasonable price. However I can confirm the included finder is completely useless. The GSO one though is quite nice and works fine. I would also recommend a Telrad finder to compliment it, which just sticks to the tube with double sided tape.
To clarify, I'm not sure if this has been posted above or not, but the RVO horizon, Stellalyra, GSO, Omegon prodob, and several others are all exactly the same scopes but with different paint jobs, all made in taiwan by GSO. The Skywatcher and Celestron dobs are made by Synta, and the Bresser is made by JOC.
BTW it's better if you do one longer post instead of many consecutive posts in one go, as it makes the thread easier to read
The 8" Bresser looks a really nice scope. The info on the where the scopes are made is great. I was thinking about all the separate quotes I was making on the 4th or 5th one 🫣 Sorry I'm new to this posting thing as you may well have guessed 😆
1 hour ago, YogSothoth said:This is completely unrelated to telescope choice, but I think you mentioned that you don’t know your way around the sky? If so, while you’re deciding what scope to get, why not get yourself a Phillips Planisphere (£10.95 on Amazon), a comfy chair and a head torch with a red light. Just sitting out in the garden at night looking up at the sky and learning the constellations, is a great way to spend 1/2hr.
Another great idea. I have ordered a Planisphere. I have a decent garden chair and a head torch for running which has a red light on.
1 hour ago, Second Time Around said:Jules asked earlier if you can navigate around the night sky. This is more important than it first appears.
In my experience one of the most common reasons beginners drop out, indeed probably the single most common, is that they struggle to find objects.
I found this with my old rubbish scope (present from a girlfriend 30 years ago). This is something that I was/am concerned about.
2 hours ago, Second Time Around said:Instead, for a similar total price, I'd suggest buying a GSO or, better still a Bresser, plus the least expensive 70mm Starsense Explorer refractor. That way, you'll have an extra scope with a shorter focal length for wide field views. It'll also be a lightweight "grab and go" scope to easily and quickly carry outside for short sessions as it doesn't need any cool down time. Nearly all of us soon end up with 2 scopes, including such a refractor anyway.
2 hours ago, Second Time Around said:I was so impressed with Starsense Explorer that I bought myself another of the 70mm refractors, and adapted the mount so that it fits into a standard Synta finder shoe. This just needs a 3D printed adapter - ask if you need help with this.
2 hours ago, Second Time Around said:A further advantage of a Starsense Explorer scope is is that you don't need a RACI finder. This is because Starsense Explorer itself is the finder. It's accurate enough to put an object in the field of view of a low power eyepiece. It just needs aligning during the day using the supplied red dot finder. However, the 6x30 straight through finder supplied with the Bresser Dobs would be even better for this, and indeed better than a RACI during the day.
If I bought the Bresser 8" & the StarSense Explorer 70mm would I be using these seperatly or mounting the StarSense on the Bressner? Sorry if this is a really stupid question. If I were to use them separately would I need to replace the Bressner finder with a better finder? Would I mount a Telrad finder on the scope as well?
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13 minutes ago, AstralFields said:
First, getting an 8" is a very safe bet. Even if you buy it new and sell it few months/years down the road, you won't lose more than about a 100$ on it. Buying it used, will in the end cost you zero as you sell it for the same money.
My first telescope 2 years ago was an 8" Sky-Watcher. I should've bought the GSO/Stellalyra as it is cheaper a bit and has a lot better accessories.
Few months ago, I upgraded to a GSO 12". It is better in each and every way but I would never have survived it as a first telescope. The 8" honed my skills both in observing and equipment so that by the time I got to the 12" I knew exactly what I was doing and am now able to optimize my experience and handle the extra weight / focal ratio well.
I wouldn't touch a Dobsonian without wheels on the base (you can mount them yourself) and carrying straps for the 12". Makes things so much easier with handling the 12 and even transporting with my car.
Check my channel below for the 8" review, the 12" comparison and some budget friendly equipment.
I've already been watching your videos!! 😀 You made an equatorial mount for the 12" Dob. I have been watching so many different creators over the past weeks. You make good videos as well. Getting an 8" would save me some money that I could put towards equipment. I never thought about honing my skills in that way at all. Great advice.
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20 hours ago, Second Time Around said:
I'd very much recommend a zoom eyepiece as your workhorse. One zoom eyepiece will cover multiple focal lengths and so is really excellent value for money.
Despite having high quality fixed focal length eyepieces, I use my zooms a lot more often. The zoom plus a Barlow lens and a low power, wide field eyepiece is often all I and others use the whole evening.
Fixed focal length eyepieces may be slightly better corrected when compared with a zoom at the same magnification. But that's not always a fair comparison as that magnification may not be the optimum for a given object. This is because one of the many advantages of a zoom is to be able to dial in precisely the best focal length. For instance, this may be 13mm or even 13.1mm, which may actually show more detail than shorter or longer fixed focal length eyepieces - even better quality ones.
I especially like the ability to increase the magnification to make use of brief moments of good seeing (a steady atmosphere). It takes more time to swap out an eyepiece, and the opportunity may then be missed. You can't see anything if you haven't got an eyepiece in the focuser!
They also make it easy to reacquire an object if it drifts out of the field of view by zooming out to a lower power. This is especially useful when showing objects to others.
Zooms also enable the field of view to be varied to frame an object to get the prettiest view. For this reason I particularly like them for clusters.
Many of those who post on forums advocating fixed focal lengths are experienced observers. It's so easy to forget what it was like as a beginner! A zoom eyepiece enables beginners to easily learn what difference a change of magnification makes on all the various classes of object. It also shows them what focal lengths would be most useful to their eyes, their telescope, and their observing conditions. They then have the option of buying/not buying the most appropriate fixed focal length eyepieces for them.
For these reasons I'd always recommend that beginners buy a zoom as their first eyepiece.
Great bit of advice and now you have explained it, I understand why. I will definitely look into a zoom eyepiece now.
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20 hours ago, Pixies said:
I have an 8" Bresser dob. I'm very happy with it and no regrets about choosing it over others (although the GSO ones weren't available then).
One thing about it, though. The finder that comes with it is awful, so budget replacing it with a decent RACI (and RDF).
Would you choose a 10" or 12" now over the 8"? The finder on the Bresser is a worry.
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On 12/08/2024 at 14:55, pregulla said:
RVO seems to come with RACI finder only. You want to add red dot or telrad/rigel to it, otherwise it will be a royal pain to use. For scope that doesn't come with RACI you may want to consider getting RACI+red dot.
Do these clip on to the finder?
8" Bresser Dobsonian - Finderscope Replacement
in Getting Started Equipment Help and Advice
Posted
Most definitely.
I was looking at this same shoe. I've picked a cheaper one up from Amazon but if it's not right then I will go for this one. I watched yet another YouTube video and they put some rubber underneath the shoe to stop it from slipping. It didn't look that nice but it worked.