EAA Equipment/Rig Recommendations

[Wolfstar]

Hello,

I have dabbled in visual a bit and the odd picture of a planet and thus I am still very much a beginner.  I am keen to build an EAA setup from scratch, but one thing I have learnt (after some expense  ) is that this hobby is like building a PC in the old days ... numerous separate components that need to be assembled together, all with their various quirks and small differences, lots of research, scratching of head and several trips to the shops - before I end up with a well behaving system and good performance.  With this in mind I am reaching out to the community for advice and recommendations:

I am after ideas and details of a complete setup for a highly portable and easy to use, wide-field EAA system for large DSO objects, (to include as a min - camera, tripod, mount, telescope, flattener, electronic focuser and other remote gadgetry, filter, and any other important parts to make it all work together "Plug and Play" ... I don't want to be going to the shop to buy bits for modifying AZ mounts into EQ, lack of back focus or deal with known software bugs etc).  I will use the system from home (Bortle 5 ) and also travel to better dark site locations occasionally.   I already have an ASAIR Pro, ZWO ASI462mc, iOptron AZ Mount Pro on a 2" Tripod and 6" Stellalyra CC, use both Windows and Mac OS laptops, ASI Studio, Sharp Cap, Sky Safari Pro, Ipad, Iphone.  Typically I would look to have a total integration time of 20-30mins per live stack (but with the occasional need for extended time for decent AP work).   Key requirements are total weight 12-16kg and an initial budget of £2,750 , but also extending this to £3,750 for specific components  that create a foundation for future expansion and heavier scopes.

 

I have probably made some glaring contradictions in the above  , but trust in the expertise of the community to make more sensible assumptions.

Thanks in advance
/Wolfy

Edited February 13, 2023 by Wolfstar

[Cosmic Geoff]

I suggest that you as far as possible put together a EAA rig with what you have to hand, and see how that goes.  You however appear to lack a widefield scope, which could prove an expensive acquisition.

My current preferred arrangement is: 102mm f5 achromat,  ASI224MC, helical non-rotating focuser, EQ-5 Synscan mount, Sharpcap 4.  (essentially stuff I had already)

A total integration time of 30 mins seems ambitious, unless you go somewhere really dark.  I usually do 150 secs or so from an urban area.

[M40]

Hello Wolfstar and welcome to the site 👍

Know where you are coming from with the building a pc, as that seems to be what I am doing and changing stuff as I go along. First thing to say is look at the eea forums on this site, look through the topics, find the subject that grabs you then have a look to see what people are using. 

Your cc telescope is probably not the best for eea, so maybe start by looking at a second telescope with a suitable camera for the field of view you are looking for. 

I go super simple for the eea stuff I do, using just asi studio. Also I have just landed an asiair so can't comment too much on that but I am hoping it works well for eea. Does your ioptron mount work with the asiair? If it does, give it a go with your existing kit using the asi software and see what happens.  All the best.

[PeterC65]

I started doing EEVA last Autumn hoping it might be an antidote for aperture fever (it is). I'd done visual for a year before that and still do visual alongside EEVA.

I agree with @Cosmic Geoff that the best place to start is with what you have, adding kit in steps.

As has been mentioned, your 6" CC is best for the Moon and Planets. This is because it is slow (F12) and slow scopes need long exposure times (more AP than EEVA, needing a very steady EQ mount). The best scopes for DSO observing via EEVA are more like F5, and since EEVA does the same job as trebling the aperture, smaller aperture short refractors are the norm, in part for their practicality.

You mention that you like widefield and again that needs a shorter focal length scope. In general the view through a camera is more narrow field than the equivalent visual setup, so I would recommend a larger sensor size than your current 5.6mm x 3.2mm ASI462. I started with something similar and felt like I was looking through a keyhole, especially after the eyepiece experience, so I've sold that first camera and now have an IMX585 based camera (11.2mm x 6.3mm). Larger sensors than this can be difficult to properly illuminate.

I use my visual Sky-Watcher AZ GOTO mount for EEVA and it is fine and can be controlled via SharpCap so I think your mount will be fine.

My setup is SharpCap running on a laptop inside the house. A single USB cable to a powered hub on the mount. The mount, camera and an electronic filter wheel all connected to that. I can see the benefits of the ASAIR Pro but they tie you to ZWO and I don't like that. SharpCap is a fantastic bit of software, it supports masses of kit, can use ASCOM on the rare occasions when it doesn't have native support, and Robin who is its author is responsive and helpful. I can't recommend it enough.

You've quoted a very long integration time. I spend 5 minutes on an integration, maybe 10 minutes if it looks spectacular. That's because I want a close to real time experience from EEVA and with integration times longer than that I would get bored and it would become AP.

I don't have an electronic focuser because I use my scopes for visual too and I want to be able to focus manually at the scope which isn't possible once you have an electronic focuser fitted unless you invest in a hand controller. Mostly it's only necessary to focus once a the start of a session unless you change the setup (which I rarely do).

I do however have an electronic filter wheel which is fully loaded with filters (Clear, UV/IR Cut, UHC, OIII, IR Pass). These are all the same make and so parfocal (so that I don't need to refocus). I find filters more useful for EEVA than for visual, I think because there is so much more of the object to see and so changing the filter makes a big difference.

One other comment ...

I've struggled to get EEVA specific advice on SGL. It seems to me that not very many people using this site are doing EEVA, it's mostly visual and AP. So if you ask camera related questions you tend to get AP focussed answers. Cloudy Nights is much better as they have a dedicated EAA (the American term for EEVA) forum that is closely policed so as to exclude anything remotely AP. It has a very active and helpful community of EAA enthusiasts and that is mostly where I go when I have questions.

 

 

[Wolfstar]

Thanks for responses    I should have made it clear my current setup is entirely built for Moon and Planets.  The mount is great but AZ only so that  rules out any AP work, but the main issue is weight - the mount and tripod alone are over 12kg ... I was looking to have close to 12kg all-in if possible.  In terms of a permanent base EAA setup i would probably look towards a Comet Hunter or 8"SCT with reducer (any fast, large aperture and low maintenance).  My current integration times are really based around bright targets and 2 - 3 mins of AVI files for lucky image - i was guessing for faint objects/smaller aperture i would need much longer,  but I am  quite happy for the imagine to build up whilst messing about with other bits and bobs - if shorter then fantastic ✨ I find focusing whilst some distance away is much easier if it can be done electronically.  I do really like visual as well - but its a bit like going from BBC1 in BW from the 60's to 4k HD (they both have their merits).  

Good call on Cloudy nights 👍

I am guessing, but weight distribution might look something like ;  3.5kg Tripod, +3kg mount , +4kg for scope, flattener, camera, rings, dew heater,  +2.5kg for Laptop and portable power (13kg).  I want to be able to pick  up, transport and assemble rig quickly and easily ... hence dedicated rig for the purpose.  Current mount could act as a really good test bed for finding things out and enable a step by step approach. 

 

/Wolfy

[PeterC65]

If I were starting from scratch and wanted a portable lightweight rig for EEVA fitting the weight breakdown you mentioned, I would get an AZ GTi or AZ GTiX mount, a short refractor with a 70-80mm aperture, and an IMX585 camera.

I'd say my Photoline 72 ideal for this situation. 432mm focal length, 72mm aperture, FPL 53 glass, 2.2kg.

 

[Wolfstar]

12 minutes ago, PeterC65 said:

If I were starting from scratch and wanted a portable lightweight rig for EEVA fitting the weight breakdown you mentioned, I would get an AZ GTi or AZ GTiX mount, a short refractor with a 70-80mm aperture, and an IMX585 camera.

I'd say my Photoline 72 ideal for this situation. 432mm focal length, 72mm aperture, FPL 53 glass, 2.2kg.

 

Yes that does sound right on target 😛   Couple of questions; Is this a rig you have used? , do you need a reducer/flattener on scopes this small for AP? on AZGti - how do you Polar align in EQ and attach Counter weight?  Does it work well with Sky Safari over Wifi or need EQMod cable?  .... sorry for questions ❤

 

[PeterC65]

I don't have any experience with the AZ GTi or GTiX mounts but there are long owners threads about them on SGL with lots of useful information and they seem to be well regarded.

I don't use a flattener with my Photoline 72, but I do have a reducer (the StellaLyra x0.6) which I use to get an even wider field of view rather than for its flattening properties. Getting the back focus right with reducers / flatteners is awkward, and it does have to be right (really spot on).

I'd recommend the scope that I have and there are others very similar, and I'd recommend an IMX585 based camera. I wouldn't recommend the mount that I have but it works for me (although tonight it is currently struggling to control my Explorer 150PDS with lightly gusting wind!).

 

[Wolfstar]

6 minutes ago, PeterC65 said:

I don't have any experience with the AZ GTi or GTiX mounts but there are long owners threads about them on SGL with lots of useful information and they seem to be well regarded.

I don't use a flattener with my Photoline 72, but I do have a reducer (the StellaLyra x0.6) which I use to get an even wider field of view rather than for its flattening properties. Getting the back focus right with reducers / flatteners is awkward, and it does have to be right (really spot on).

I'd recommend the scope that I have and there are others very similar, and I'd recommend an IMX585 based camera. I wouldn't recommend the mount that I have but it works for me (although tonight it is currently struggling to control my Explorer 150PDS with lightly gusting wind!).

 

You can see clear sky 🦄

[PeterC65]

6 minutes ago, Wolfstar said:

You can see clear sky 🦄

Yep, it's a clear night here in the Forest of Dean. Just starting to get misty, now that the breeze has dropped!

 

[Cosmic Geoff]

2 hours ago, Wolfstar said:

In terms of a permanent base EAA setup i would probably look towards a Comet Hunter or 8"SCT with reducer (any fast, large aperture and low maintenance). 

I actually have an 8"SCT with focal reducer, but I only use it occasionally in the EEVA role, for EEVA of small objects. And it has an alt-az mount. Surprisingly enough you can use an alt-az mount for EEVA, as the live-stacking largely takes care of the field rotation.

If you have a recent model Synscan handset, you can plug a USB cable into it and control the mount that way for plate-solving etc.

[DrBobAZ]

Hello

I just joined SGL, but have participated for some time on Cloudy Nights in the EAA and Planetary lucky imaging forums.

 

It looks like you have all the pieces for a very good EAA setup, once you get a shorter FL OTA. I use a 80mm ED refractor for my wider field imaging.

I too, have used the SW az-gti mount with wedge in equatorial mode, but alt-az is fine for EAA. That should bring the weight down in the range you are interested in.

My camera is an asi294mc-pro, but yours is fine for the purpose.

I can't say enough great things about Sharpcap as well.

 

Bob