Re-evaluating scope control and capture setup...

[MG01]

As I return to the hobby I've had a few stumbling blocks.  Most recent the need to replace my NEQ6 control board because a bit of an IC decided it didn't like the rest of the IC and flew off into the ether!  Coupled with a few power loss issues and USB problems I have decided to rethink how everything goes together.  

My main problem is length of the run between scope and laptop.

Currently I need to be withing a couple of metres of a 240v socket at the laptop end and then the scope is often up to 10M away in order to be away from paths, boggy ground etc.

I can manage a short run at home, but the 10m I need for flexibility at star camps is what I think is causing the greatest problem.

At the scope I have to accommodate the following:

• NEQ6 Mount - 12Vdc, 2A
• Currently Canon 5D MkII which is battery powered, but moving to Atik 383L+ - 12Vdc, 2A
• Kendrick DigiFire 7 with 2x 3" and 1x 5" bands - 12Vdc, 3A (8A Max load if I change things)
  • 5" band for scope - 1.2A
  • 3" band for guide scope - 0.8A
  • 3" band for RDF - 0.8A
• 2x 4 port USB2 Hubs - 5Vdc (via 12 => 5Vdc transformer), 4A total max
  • Atik Cam (data only)
  • SX Lodestar (data & power)
  • SX Filter Wheel (data & power)
  • EQDir (data only)
  • Game Pad (data & power)
  • TEMPerHUM (data & power)
  • GPS Module (data & power)

At the laptop (which my be outside or may be inside tent or wooden pod) I also have the following:

• USB SSD Drive (Powered by laptop USB2 port)
• Lakeside Astro Focuser Control unit - 12Vdc, 1A (Powered by same PSU as scope equipment but connected to laptop USB2 port)
• Repurposed EE router to create wifi network for 5D image transfer (12Vdc, 1.5A, but currently using Wall Wart!)

Ignoring the Laptop which needs a 240Vac to 19.5Vdc brick, I have a max load of 17A with an estimated load close to 10-12A from my 13.8Vdc 12A power supply....cutting it a little fine I think.

Is this about normal?

Some possible changes and questions I'm considering to improve all of this?

1. Continue as is with 2 USB2 Hubs at the scope, but with an upgraded PSU.  Does a low ripple linear supply help reduce image noise, does it justify additional cost?
   • Eg: https://www.radioworld.co.uk/power-supplies-10-20-amp-medium-high-power/microset-pt-110a-10-amp-138v-power-supply
   • Or: https://www.hamradio.co.uk/used-equipment/kenwood-ps-52-used
2. Replace 5Vdc USB hubs with larger 12Vdc, 3A USB3 hub to improve power to devices and data flow to PC
   • https://www.scan.co.uk/products/7-port-startech-superspeed-usb-30-hub-desktop-usb-hub-with-power-adapter-black
3. Use USB over Ethernet device to improve reliability over distance
   • https://www.amazon.co.uk/Extender-Repeater-Keyboard-Gamepad-synchronously-USB2-0-U2EX50/dp/B01EV33R8S?ref_=ast_sto_dp
   • Can I add a hub into this or does that push it too much?...as it is only 4 port
   • I can probably loose the GPS module as I have a GPS phone app that works without mobile signal and you only really need it for the setup.
4. Use Synscan WiFi or shoestring version to eliminate EQDir module and Game Pad...then use phone to control scope movement
   • https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-mount-accessories/sky-watcher-synscan-wifi-adapter.html
   • Does this work alongside EQmod?  Can I still use EQmod on laptop to control guiding and scope position from Stellarium or does the App conflict with this?
   • Does this use the prolific drivers in the USB version of the mother board and is this stable.
5. Can I achieve all of the above simply by using a miniPC at the scope...then just run a 12Vdc line and Ethernet to the scope and use remote desktop?
   • Any recommendations?
   • Do the astro specific ones justify their increased cost?

There's probably other things I haven't considered as I'm trying to get up to speed with how things have developed over the last 10 years.  If anyone has time to cast their eye over this and offer some feedback that would be really helpful.  I do have a tendency to over complicate things sometimes 😆😝😬 

Thanks in advance 👍

[Dark Raven]

To simplify your setup, you could go for MiniPCs from MeLE that accept NVMe SSD: Quieter3Q N5105 8GB 256GB. Make sure to go with Pro version of the OS in order to allow for remote-in. Patriot Astro has three-part series on this exact topic where he tests hardware and goes through entire Astro SW setup. He is also good source of instructional videos on N.I.N.A.

 

How reliable are they? It appears quite a lot. Cuiv, The Lazy Geek left his setup ON for nine (9!) months, came back and just casually picked up where he left off.

 

 

This would enable you to have everything on 12V and remote-in from indoors. Perhaps start with this as the initial step. 

PrimaLuceLab Eagles are far superior, and cost accordingly.  

 

[MG01]

Thanks Dark...when you consider the cost of a decent hub and usb over ethernet, then these cheaper computers do seem pretty good value.

I would still need to rig up some power distribution for it, mount, dew and camera unless any of the minipc's have power out....I'll have to check. 

One concern I did have about the minipc was that I've had significant amounts of dew on my mount before and would be concerned about them getting wet.  Especially the Eagle you linked...its covered in holes!

But thanks again, you've given me food for thought. 

[Dark Raven]

4 hours ago, MG01 said:

I would still need to rig up some power distribution

PRODUCTS – Power and Data Distribution – Pegasus Astro

4 hours ago, MG01 said:

One concern I did have about the minipc was that I've had significant amounts of dew on my mount before and would be concerned about them getting wet.  Especially the Eagle you linked...its covered in holes!

MiniPCs from MeLE are passively cooled. Meaning that they are far above dew temp at any point in time. Eagle is AP dedicated HW and (any normal amount) dew should not impact it. 

[MG01]

Thanks again....It seems amazon have some good discounts on the mele units...so that's promising.

One thing that's puzzling me still is my lakeside focuser box.  Currently I have it sat by the laptop. The control cable runs via an ethernet cable to the motor but the USB connection is to the PC.  I still use the manual mode sometimes which means I don't really want to put it up at the scope, but if I'm using a scope PC it seems a bit weird to have to run a USB cable (via ethernet because of the distance) from the laptop position out to the scope...in that case the scope PC isn't really cutting down on cables anymore.

Do people just leave their focus control units at the scope and operate only via the PC?  Or is my situation more complex because I'm using older tech?

[Dark Raven]

20 hours ago, MG01 said:

Do people just leave their focus control units at the scope and operate only via the PC?  Or is my situation more complex because I'm using older tech?

Yes. Time to upgrade.

https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com/product/eaf-5v

https://pegasusastro.com/products/motor-focus-kit-v2-universal/

https://eu.primalucelab.com/esatto-2/esatto-2-robotic-microfocuser.html?RgExcludeLocationDetection=true

 

[MG01]

Having chewed it over I've looked at options for 'taming the octupus' and despite my thinking otherwise initially, there really it a lot to be said for the Pegasus boxes plus mini PC.  These were the options I put together as a diagram to help me get my head around all the cables...

• Option A: Add a mini PC and replace my aging double hubs with the Pegasus USB Hub, but retain the kendrick and move the Lakeside boxes up to the scope.

This option simply changes my current practice of having the focuser by the computer, but since I'll be using the focuser via software this doesn't matter.  Having the box at the scope does give me the ability to focus manually if for some reason I'm setting up for visual.  I would still need some form of DIY power hub (distribution only not smart management and sensing) so there is some cost there too.

• Option B: Add a mini PC and the Pegasus Power Box Advanced plus the option to ditch the Lakeside box and use the Pegasus focus controller as my lakeside motor is compatible via a custom cable.

Here we're starting to see the benefits of the Pegasus system with the integration of USB hub and power management. This option was my preferred until I really looked at the final option as it does seem to offer the most convenience for a modest but not huge expense.  Initially I was concerned that I would still need a DIY power distribution box, but the diagram helped me resolve what will be plugged in where.  It also gives me a spare output I can use for attaching my homemade flats panel to the rig at the start or end of my session.  Finally I can also ditch the TemperHum module that I've been having issues with as it comes with a sensor that works with the software.

• Option C: Bells and whistles with the Ultimate Power Box.  The most costly solution and one I would be more likely to go for if I was using NINA or if the UPB was integrated into APT.

Originally I was sceptical about this offering as I wasn't sure it offered enough for the price.  But having worked it through I'm looking at getting the total cable count down from 17 to 12 and the total number of 'boxes' on the mount down from 5 to 2.  This reduces the points of failure and combined with the monitoring capabilities of the software should make troubleshooting a lot simpler.

So I'm pretty much sold on the Ultimate Powerbox.  I can understand why people suck through their teeth a bit though as I hate spending money on things that don't have glass in them! 😛

Anyway, I wanted to post this and hope that it might help others work through what they need, connection wise.  It also helps when roughing out power consumption for PSU sizing.  Although most equipment doesn't get near the stated safe maximums in their specs, so we probably all oversize our PSUs considerably.  Hopefully the Pegasus software will help me fine tune the consumption so I can get an optimum sized linear supply and won't waste quite as much juice as I would just buying a heavy 30 Amp supply for the sake of it.  

Oh, and a big thank to @Dark Raven for tempting me down this upgrade path!

[malc-c]

On 03/11/2022 at 17:48, MG01 said:

As I return to the hobby I've had a few stumbling blocks.  Most recent the need to replace my NEQ6 control board because a bit of an IC decided it didn't like the rest of the IC and flew off into the ether! 

What chip blew its top ? - can you upload a picture of the main board - it may be repairable rather than shelling out £150+ for a new one

[MG01]

7 minutes ago, malc-c said:

What chip blew its top ? - can you upload a picture of the main board - it may be repairable rather than shelling out £150+ for a new one

@malc-c Sadly it was one of the PICs so could only be replaced if you also know what was programmed onto it.  I've already ordered a replacement.  Although I'm still unclear as to why it happened.  Some folk have suggested under voltage, but I check my power supply and that seems fine.  When it happened it also blew the 3A fuse in the cigarette lighter connector.

[malc-c]

28 minutes ago, MG01 said:

@malc-c Sadly it was one of the PICs so could only be replaced if you also know what was programmed onto it. 

You must have missed This thread 😉

Page 4 onwards becomes interesting 

Edited November 10, 2022 by malc-c

[MG01]

lol...I'll have a read though later tonight...cheers

 

[MG01]

On 10/11/2022 at 19:00, malc-c said:

You must have missed This thread 😉

Page 4 onwards becomes interesting 

I'll be honest...I didn't get to the end of page 5 before I realised I needed to be making notes!

I do love that we have such a bredth of knowledge on this forum.  I'd love to learn a little more about electronics and programing so I'll pop the board in an ESD bag and maybe in the new year I can add to that thread.

[malc-c]

3 hours ago, MG01 said:

I'll be honest...I didn't get to the end of page 5 before I realised I needed to be making notes!

I do love that we have such a bredth of knowledge on this forum.  I'd love to learn a little more about electronics and programing so I'll pop the board in an ESD bag and maybe in the new year I can add to that thread.

Granted that the thread can get a little complicated and geeky at times, but basically it covers converting the downloadable firmware into a HEX file that can then be loaded into a PIC micro to replace the damaged ones on the main board.  Even though a few members have sent me their kit for repair, a few members have a programmer and have successfully done the procedure to give their scope a new lease of life.  It's well worth trying and even if you have to buy a programmer it could still work out cheaper than the cost of a new replacement board.

I'm also on the scrounge for any damaged boards that would otherwise end up in the bin, with a view of attempting a repair which, if successful can then be sold on to other SGL members for a small amount to cover parts, time and PPH.  Operating on an exchange bases to keep the momentum going, this could help people in the current situation where money is tight. 

[MG01]

@malc-c I'm more than happy to contribute a board to your project...ping me your address and I can get it in the post in the week.

I've had an awful lot of help from fellow astronomers over the years so if this helps someone who's maybe having a rough time of it that's amazing.  Kudos on helping Foster such a wonderful community spirit!

[malc-c]

15 hours ago, MG01 said:

@malc-c I'm more than happy to contribute a board to your project...ping me your address and I can get it in the post in the week.

I've had an awful lot of help from fellow astronomers over the years so if this helps someone who's maybe having a rough time of it that's amazing.  Kudos on helping Foster such a wonderful community spirit!

That's great, many thanks - you have an incoming PM