Astrophotography - The Next Step

[agthomson]

I've had my SW 200p for about a year now, and have purposefully stayed away from AP, more to save my bank balance, but also so that I don't jump in with no knowledge what so ever.

I don't like buying things that will have no use later down the line, so when I bought my 200p, I bought a Dob variant as the EQ5 mount (adding £65 to the dob or there abouts from memory) would be useless for AP. I'd like to buy stuff now that again won't need replacing down the line.

I've been buying bits and pieces over the last year, so now I have all the gizmos to connect my Sony A200 to my 'scope, and I have an SPC webcam I can utilise. My first imaging attempt was on Saturday, but without a Barlow to help achieve focus. Because of this I had to remove parts of the focuser (just the 2" adapter bit) and manually hold the camera in place. I managed to photograph the Pleiades (star trail, but nice blue tinge), the Moon (moderate success!), and I had just enough time for one image of Jupiter before the cloud came in. Unfortunately I over-exposed it .

So... On to my question(s).

I plan on buying an EQ mount to hold my 200p, a Startravel 80 (used as a guidescope, £126 w/EQ1 - so my dad can observe; Dob's too big and heavy), possibly an autoguider (is this the way to go?) and either my DSLR or my webcam (or both if I don't get an autoguider). The HEQ5 mount was my preferred choice, but it's discontinued on FLO (my preferred retailer). As the EQ5 would be borderline at best for this kit, i'm stuck for mount choice.

The HEQ5 Pro Synscan (£747) has the ST-4 port for auto-guiding, and looks about what I would be looking for. On the other hand, there's the EQ6 Syntrek which can carry a heavier payload. The description, "is supplied with a non-GOTO hand controller that provides slewing controls and automatic tracking of celestial objects", suggests that it doesn't need an auto-guider, but I assume that this is incorrect. GOTO isn't important to me at this stage, and the ability to upgrade is a plus point for the EQ6.

Which mount best suits my needs?

Next is auto-guiding (if required). If I use my DSLR I can use the webcam (+ laptop) to auto-guide. I assume I need to buy the USB Guider @ £59.90.

Is it worth getting an auto-guider like the SW Synguider @ £229? Or is a webcam + laptop set-up as good, saving £170?

If I get the HEQ5 and Startravel it's £873. Upgrade to an EQ6 pushes it back up to £941. Add the Guider on top of that. Ideally i'd like to keep it as close to £1,000 as possible.

Have I missed anything (except for tube rings and dovetails)?

Thanks in advance,

Andy

Images from Saturday (not embedded, links to Flickr):

Moon

Pleiades

Jupiter

[rocketandroll]

Welcome to a very slippery slope :-)

Firstly, before you buy anything... you unfortunately need to decide what you want to photograph.

The kit needed for planetary imaging is very different from that needed for deep sky work.

The webcam will work for planetary (not my area of expertise but I know to get decent results you need more than just a standard webcam) A dslr on the other hand is a good option for deep sky.

The choice of mount is dependant on a few things... one that often gets overlooked is portability. The NEQ6 and other EQ6 variants are pretty hefty. If you are setting up a permanent or semi permanent obsy... thry are the best bet. If you need your rig to be portable a HEQ5 will handle an 8" Newt ok.

Dont underestimate the value of go-to... with deep sky imaging most of what you want to image is invisible through the scope so getting a non go-to scope pointing at what you want is a real chore... though it can be done via a laptop if you are going the guided route.

I wouldnt necessarily jump straight into guiding... theres a lot you can do with up to 1min unguided subs while you learn the ropes... then add a guidescope and guide camera later.

I would personally avoid the standalone autoguiders... they are great if they work... but when they dont (often) they are a pita to get any info out of... you cant work out WHY theyre not working.

An unmodified webcam wont work as a guide camera... I'd strongly recomend a QHY5 or something like a SX Lodestar... they are simply awesome.

Have fun... but be warned... it is addictive and you will unlikely resist the desire to 'upgrade' for long :-)

Ben

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

[agthomson]

Thanks for the quick reply. I guess to answer the "what are you photographing" question, it's a bit of everything. Lunar, planetary, moving on to DSO eventually (hence not needing GOTO. Yet). I'd like to utilise the DSLR as much as possible, as I feel in more control over it than I do a webcam.

Re: the heftiness of the mount, right now i'm carting around the Dob without too much problems. Given that I could remove the OTA from the mount I see this only as doubling my workload. If an HEQ5 can carry the 200p + guide scope (future-proofing) then i'll go down this road. Way down the road, the 200p will be relegated and be replaced by a triplet for widefield imaging.

Re: The unguided 1-min subs. I agree that this is possibly a step too far too quickly, and will revise my shopping list accordingly

Point noted about the auto-guiders, and I agree that a better CCD is the way forward for guiding, but would a webcam + USB box work well enough for now? How do you find the Lodestar given you run it through an ST80?

So, the outcome from that is GOTO is an advantage, auto-guiding isn't necessary yet, and the HEQ5 will do me?

[malc-c]

I've just gone down that slippery road, having gone the whole hogg and built a permanent set up in an observatory. I upgraded my 200P / EQ5 to an HEQ5 and have what is effectively becoming the standard guidescope, the ST80 with a QHY5 camera.

IMO the HEQ5 handles this setup just fine, and if it was still used with the tripod would make a fairly portable set up provided you didn't move the OTA and mount together !

If you have the 200P dob then the focal length is going to be 1200mm so the tube will be slightly longer...but the HEQ5 should still handle the weight.

As for imaging, It's a steep learning curve, but using a bog standard Phillips webcam and a couple of barlows I've managed some (by my standard) pictures of Jupiter over the past few months

And using the canon 400D some of the brighter DSO's such as the beginners favorite M31

Personally, I would use a PC and software such as PHD or AA5 for guiding rather than autoguiders, and it can work out cheaper.

As for goto - at the moment you can only get the HEQ5 synscan model so you'll have goto from day one if buying new. I would also recommend that you opt for the goto option if buying second hand, it makes life so much easier finding faint objects, especially if the skies you are observing from suffer from light pollution.

Hope that helps

[agthomson]

Hope that helps

Immensely! Your set-up is effectively what i'm aiming for. So, you're talking £750 for mount, £100 for guide scope, £200 for QHY5, plus tube rings etc (say £50). So, a total of £1,100.

Missing anything??

[malc-c]

Missing anything??

Not really, I have the Hitech usb focuser (£75) plus the SW DC focuser (£50) which help, but not essential (in fact I often use the handset rather than the USB focuser, but it helps if I remote from the house rather than the warm room)

You could use an adapter to connect either a web cam or QHY5 to the 8x50 finder and use that as a guidescope if you wanted to save £100 for the ST80, but have not tried it to see how it performs.

You can make an EQdirect cable for £20 if you want to use a laptop to control the mount. Cables for the dslr cost me a few pence as I gad the parts in my hobby box.

Other than that I think your're spot on with your costings -

[ollypenrice]

I do hundreds of hours a year imaging and would strongly advise you to be over-mounted rather than under-mounted. An 8 inch Newt is just about OK on an HEQ5, maybe, but over-mounted at that it most certainly isn't. The NEQ6 would be better and if you have a future-proofing mentality I'm afraid that I have to recommend the extra expense. All sorts of things affect your evening's imaging. A little wind means you either do or don't get a keeper. Mounts age and the more margin they have the better they will cope as they do so. Etc etc.

I would advise you to learn the guiding ropes froom the start. Autoguiding is a fact of imaging life. And, as above, I would shy away from the standalones. PHD software is free and the QHY or Lodestar is sensitive and effective. You can mod a webcam with a Shoestring Astronomy adapter but since guiding is hard at the best of times... do yourself a favour and make it easier!

The webcam will blow the DSLR out of the water on the solar system and, again, the software is free. However, in your good fast Newt the DSLR will shine on the deep sky, though you'll have coma away from the centre of the chip. Still, it's a big chip that would cost a fortune in CCD terms. Just crop your images.

Also as above, DS imaging without GoTo would be difficult for a host of reasons that are not obvious till you are doing it. Briefly, we image things we can't see, we don't want to remove the camera because we lose focus, lose our flats, disturb our autoguiders, etc and all this costs time which is the most precious commodity.

The slope is slippery but the ride is exciting...

Olly

[agthomson]

Given that I will effectively be "downgrading" my scope (in terms of size/weight) to something along the lines of a WO GT-81 in the future, reducing the load on my mount, is the extra £180 on the mount worth it?

My untilmate budget is around £1,500 for mount + guide scope + Guide Cam + Bits'n'Bobs.

[ollypenrice]

Given that I will effectively be "downgrading" my scope (in terms of size/weight) to something along the lines of a WO GT-81 in the future, reducing the load on my mount, is the extra £180 on the mount worth it?

My untilmate budget is around £1,500 for mount + guide scope + Guide Cam + Bits'n'Bobs.

Perhaps not. I wouldn't hestate to image on an HEQ5 with a small refractor. It's a nice mount and need not be less accurate than the EQ6.

Olly

[agthomson]

Many thanks for all the help everyone's provided. It's certainly made things clearere in my head. Now to find the guts to part with my money It took me 6 months to actually buy the telescope in the first place!

[rowan46]

I can't believe nobody has mentioned it yet but this book is very useful. It will tell you what you need and more importantly why and there is a methodology for taking photo's

First Light Optics - Making Every Photon Count - Steve Richards

[agthomson]

I was waiting for someone to mention the book.

I already have it, but it's more a question of how I want to proceed. I have a thing for not wasting money where possible, thus i'm trying to piece together the best kit that I can that will be "future proof".

You can get by with a lot of equipment, but sooner or later it'll be redundant.