Iem1

Just doing some reading;

Would the default calibration step duration of 2000 ms need to be increased? Read something that suggested 8000-10000 ms for the ZWO's mini scope FL?

Think it was for the calibration step the post mentioned, but could be the RA and/or DEC

I left all of mine as default;

Thank you for all the replies folks.

I'm taking note of the things being suggested. I will head to an area with service tonight so I can research specific things and report back here with any issues.

I will go the extra mile with the PA too and test it independently of the guiding. I know unguided, with good PA I can manage 2 minute subs, I have done it before with drfit alignment via the handcontroller.

One thing I am querying is my DEC balance. The dove tail of my Z73 is short, too short to balance the DEC without having to shimmy the scope up to the end of the EQ6's clamp. So it is only being held by one of the grips instead of two. It's not massively unbalanced, but definitely not ideal. I chose safety of the rig over perfect balance atm. Need to get that sorted ASAP so both grips hold the bar AND i can balance it properly. Could also be not helping.

Although, I am pretty confident I'm messing something up in the settings/calibration step. Looking forward to getting back out there!

21 minutes ago, Simon Pepper said:

You need a good PA guiding and PA are separate anything with a smiley face will be good in the AAP but this does depend on focal length. There is another setting something about restoring from last session make sure that’s off as well and make sure when calibrating that the steps count up to at least 12 West and back and 12 north and back. 

Here's my PA according to the ASI (I did improve it a bit more after this was taken)

I found that setting after tinkering and switched it off to try it. But I do not recall it actually calibrating properly, in a video I watched it did some sort of North/West steps in which it calibrated. Mine did it briefly initially, but never again after redoing the calibration for some reason.

21 minutes ago, Elp said:

What are the settings under the telescope icon in the app? Sounds to me like the tracking isn't switched on or the guiderate isn't set at the right speed.

PA in asiair is usually fine though sometimes I still get tracking issues, I tend to slew to target then calibrate there and always recalibrate when changing targets or starting a new session.

I can't recall. Perhaps these were the issue if you have to manually turn on guiding and set guiderate in a separate panel. These did not even occur to me. First night out in a few months so I was very rusty!

Some other screen shots I grabbed that may hold some info:

(eventually turned auto restore calibration off)

(Early on in the process, before I attempted guiding I think)

1 hour ago, Simon Pepper said:

Hi Lem

i have - similar setup. What guide scope are you using? That focus is fine by the way. I see you have a star tracker too and I can’t see the RA line have you left the guide the RA only box on? Couple other things. Clear calibration every time depending on guide scope you may need to lower the steps let me know

Thanks

 

Hi Simon,

I am using the ZWO Mini Guide Scope (120 mm). 

I have a Sky Guider Pro star tracker, but I use my EQ6 R Pro for deep sky now.

I think I saw that option (RA only) whilst tinkering around with the settings and I believe it was off. Although I did go back to check after I couldn't get the guiding to work and I could not for the life of me see the setting again! So maybe I managed to switch it on somehow 

44 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

This rings alarm bells for me straight away: 'I focused and PA well via the ASI.'  Does this mean you believe in your PA because some software tells you its good?  I've had plenty of experience of software not being accurate in this regard. Once aligned I would do a simple drift test like this: point the scope towards the celestial equator in the south. Set up a 3 minute sub and, during this exposure, track at the slowest possible speed for 1.5 minutes one way in RA and then 1.5 minutes back again. This will produce an outward star trail and a return trail. If the PA is good the star trails will overlap, producing one single line. If PA is out you'll get a shallow angled vee. This test is software-free and direct so it can be believed in implicitly.

Being suspicious of all things software I also prefer to guide by the simplest means possible and that's by the old fashioned ST4 cable. This means no 3rd party software, just the camera, the mount and PHD involved.

Olly

Very true! I did not confirm my PA, I trusted in the software.

truth be told, i still haven't even calibrated my polar scope, or ever used it! Only ever used the hand controller and now the ASI to PA

I would have thought, that with fully functioning guiding, having an accurate PA is less important as you have constant correction from the guiding? Or is a bad PA too much for the guiding to correct? 

looks like we have a few clear nights in a row so I'm looking forward to getting back out there to have another go!

Thanks guys

Edit: In regards to the guide cam, I only have a connection from the USB port (straight to the ASI Air), I am not using the ST4 port...should I be!?

Hey guys,

Just returned from my first night out with my new equipment that I have finally had a chance to use after months of it collecting dust! I used my ASI airplus and guiding setup for the first time tonight, all went well...except for the guiding part

Equipment used:

WO Z73 430mm, Canon 600D, EQ6 R Pro, ASI air plus

Guiding:

ZWO 120mm mini camera/scope 

I focused and PA well via the ASI, platesolved and was able to very accurately find my target for the night, but my guiding would only last maybe 20-30 seconds. 

I believe I have everything wired correctly, I use an EQ Mod cable.

Here are some screenshots;

The guiding would usually start around 0.10' in RA and Dec, sometimes lower, it might maintain for around 10-20 seconds but would always begin an upwards spiral. I couldn't get a clean 2 minute sub.

Struggled with getting a good focus with the guide scope too.

Any ideas what might be the cause? This is my first ever outing with any sort of guiding and the ASI air, so I very well could have messed up the most simplest of things.

It almost seemed like it simply wasn't guiding, that it had set parameters but was unable to actually guide within them (if that makes sense) and so with the natural movement of the mount it drifted out.

Still had an absolute blast learning, even with not being able to collect data, the ASI air is unbelievably efficient!

Thanks for looking guys.

Thanks for the input guys! 

I have had a look, if I went for the 533 MM, I would get;

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-accessories/zwo-8x-1-25-electronic-filter-wheel-efw.html

And the UV/IR filter

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-filters/zwo-125-iruv-cut-filter.html

Which if I'm not mistaken would be inserted into my field flattener as to block UV/IR before it hits the NB filters?

I was also thinking, with my budget, should I opt for Ha/sii/oiii first and perhaps add LRGB at a later date? Very interested in narrowband imaging. Or is the LRGB equally as important for producing inages? So this set;

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-filters/zwo-125-ha-sii-oiii-7nm-narrowband-filter-set.html

I believe the 1.25 inch is appropriate for the 533 MM?

For previous questions, I am using an ASIair Plus so I think I am restricted to ZWO cameras...My original budget was about £1,000. So naturally I'm looking at a £1,700+ basket at the moment But the 2600 MM is a bridge too far unfortunately.

I am also unsure of the difference between mounted/unmounted filters? (Manually inserted/changed v's electronic?)

Thanks again for all the input guys, it is much appreciated, first time looking into dedicated cameras/filters, so all the advice is very useful and appreciated.

Also, apologies, I thought I'd posted this in the Equipment section of the forum

This is why I post here first before placing orders

Thank you all for the input, I will go for the 1600MM bundle 

im thinking this one;

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-cameras/zwo-asi1600mm-pro-usb-3-mono-camera-efwmini-filter-wheel-31mm-lrgb-filter-set-31mm-h-alpha-filter-bundle.html

It has the UV/IR filter, is that used in conjunction with the LRGB filters and independent of the Ha filter? I'd assume the Ha filter already blocks all but the desired wavelengths of light? 

Afternoon folks,

I am just finishing the final touches to setting up my new...setup..which currently consists of the ASIair plus, 120MM mini guide scope and a WO Z73 72mm refractor.

Now that I have my mount/guiding ready (Just ordered an EQ Mod cable, haven't actually used it all yet!) I am looking at upgrading from my Canon 600D.

It's been a tough decision between the ASI 294 MC and a ASI 1600 MM bundle with the filter wheel. But I think I'm going to stick to OSC for now, lessen the steep learning curve I'm in for, though I'm changing my mind every day :D 

My question is, what else do I need to accompany the ASI 294 MC?

My optical train at the moment is just the WO Z73 (72mm aperture, 430mm FL) and a field flattner, currently used with a T - Ring adapter for the Canon.

Will my cureent field flattner be appropriate for the 294 camera? I have read I should get a UV/IR filter to reduce star bloat I think? Would I need a filter wheel to house this, or is it inserted directly into the optical train? 

I will take a look at spacing soon too, just trying to make sure I get all the bits and bobs and have theory sorted before I buy.

Thank you for any help/tips 

It is the Sadr region and the butterfly nebula, good effort mate!

As you said, about as bad as conditions can get. Imagine the results under a dark and moonless sky

So you will improve on it a lot.

Edit: Just spotted the Crescent nebula too, very nice

I have never looked into barlows for the scope, but it seems I most definitely should judging from the above images 🤣

Those are brilliant! 

Not sure if this is of any relevance, but I have the same scope with a 600D.

I aim for around ~ 11.4 mm on the field flattener and to my eye at least it does the job. My 600D has an astro mod, but no sensor adjustment that I am aware of.

This is what it looks like.

This would have been handy 3 - 4 days ago, BEFORE I had submitted my final year dissertation/project titled 'The motion of stars around Sagittarius A*'  😏🤣

Still, I am due to present a presentation on my project to some of the Postgrad students next week, this will most definitely be making an appearance! Wonderful timing!

31 minutes ago, saac said:

lem 1 , this is interesting. I think, and I have no experience of this  save from the video, he applies a scaling effect to the starfield only (makes the starfield expand almost like a vanishing point perspective in art) . This then gives the effect that the stars are moving relative to the static background nebula.  There also appears to be a translation (linear movement) of the background (he moves it left to right I think) .  Do you have photoshop after effects?  I think it's a worthwhile investigation and another direction to experiment with in astro photography/art.  If it is good enough for NASA/Hubble why not us?

Jim 

Yeah, I thought it would be a bit of fun to build upon our images a bit more. I have photoshop, After Effects and pretty much all other adobe creative software I think, perks of being a student, all of it only costs like £15 a month I think

19 minutes ago, Elp said:

Just saw the video. Looks like one layer on top of another and both are translating, the top one more than the other. You set a start keyframe, move the time slider to a later point in time, and move the picture as much as you want it to move and set another keyframe. Quite simple. After Effects is capable of so much more.

Thanl you for the run down, and yeah it does look simple, it's just getting to grips with all the options/buttons/layout etc. Installed After Effects a couple hours ago, and that was my first ever introduction to something that isn't PS or Siril

Il have another go tomorrow, would love to learn to do it as I think it's a pretty cool tool to have on the tool belt of astro software!

Gives me something fun & astro related to do on cloudy nights.

Hey guys,

I am looking at trying my hand at animating some of my astro images for a bit of fun, I am just looking at creating a simple 15 - 20 second animation of both the stars/galaxy slowly moving in frame, but I have absouletly no idea what I am doing in After Effects.

I have watched a video 

But its more of a quick demonstration as opposed to a step by step tutorial for a clueless beginner like myself.

I was wondering if anyone knew of any step by step guides to achieve this?

The images I am planning on using having removed the stars in PS

And the stars

Cheers guys

Great start!

My best advice would be to keep trying to refine the basics. When it comes to unguided subs, its getting the basics spot on that make a good image.

(1) Polar alignment + Sharp focus = Good images

You want to be able to consistently produce 30 - 60 second images that have no trail and are sharp. I am not familiar with the SA (I used a SGP) but I am sure they are pretty similar. PA, take some test shots, zoom in on the 600D and check the stars. With a decent PA, there should be no trail in most of your images at your focal length.

Again, not familiar with focusing using a DSLR lens (outside of a 14mm i set at infinity), are you able to use a bahtinov mask with it? Will help you focus. You can always do it by eye, but getting good focus like that is hit and miss. Even with a B mask I am not happy with my focus sometimes  

(2) Polar alignment + Sharp focus + dithering = Great images

You are not going to be able to leave your rig unattended for more than a couple of minutes if you want to drastically improve the quality of your images as you will need to dither between images to fend of walking noise. In short, you need to move the subject of your image within the frame ever so slightly between images to prevent the image becoming swamped with noise. On a SGP, this involved adjusting the RA a SMALL amount by the tapping one of the keys, and adjusting the DEC by adjusting the DEC screw, loosening/tightening (be very careful here, do not over loosen it, you're aiming to 'feel' the screw ease up, not completely remove it!) this will be enough to shift the dec by small amounts.

Is your 600D modded? Heart and Soul are surprisingly faint Ha objects, tough going for any unmodded dslr. You will need many hours of good quality data to bring them out.

You should find pretty cheap USB dew heaters on amazon along with a portable USB power bank, that should keep the lens clear

If you are really struggling to navigate the night sky and find targets, have a look at red dot finders, pretty sure you can attach them to the 'horseshoe'(?) thingy m'bob on the dslr. It was a game changer when using my SGP. trying to find Andromeda without one of those things with a 430mm scope + DSLR was embarrassingly tough when I first started   

1 hour ago, vlaiv said:

That is excellent - never would have thought of that.

Good to know that one can dither manually as well. I guess it is a bit of a chore but will certainly improve results.

Doing it with the Synscan handcontroller is a breeze! Easy as tapping 2 buttons.

...But, I still wake up during the nights in cold sweats, shivering, thinking about manually dithering on a Sky Guider Pro, having to adjust the Dec bolts every 30 seconds, often knocking the subject to the other side of the frame. Manually reframing every few minutes, the 'slip' caused by system coming to rest..

Doing that between almost every Image when taking 200 - 300 30 second subs, out in freezing temperatures, now that is work!

ASIair Plus should arrive in a few days, its going to feel like a different hobby from when I started!

I'd say keep it as simple as possible for the first good few outings, do some research on the procedure to set up GoTo and use Synscan (Balancing/Home position/2-3 star alignment/Polar alignment).

Look up back spacing with your dslr/scope/field flattener, nail your Polar alignment and focus.

You will need an intervalometer for the dslr too, start with 30 second subs as it will be a lot more forgiving in every respect than 60+ seconds.

And you should definitely dither with a DSLR! Very important if you do not want your images looking like this;

Not dithered between each image, The red channel from an auto stretch in Siril of my whirlpool data, taken with a WO Z73 and 600D

And it can not really be rectified in Post processing either, end result;

Dithered between each image, Andromeda red channel after auto stretch in Siril, same scope and camera

end result, almost zero walking noise

If you spend enough time on this forum, you'll have all the same experienced imagers drumming the importance of dithering into your head too, as I did 

How I dither (While unguided) with the SynScan hand controller is set the slewing speed to 2, and with the intervalometer I set a 13-15 second pause between each image, during which I use the arrow keys to move a tiny amount in both DEC/RA. It should be barely noticeable that the subject has moved in the frame, and slewing speed 2 seems perfect for it.

Ideally it would be in completely random directions done by software, but I most definitely notice a big difference when I do not dither compared to when I do! 

48 minutes ago, StevieDvd said:

I seriously doubt FLO would do that, more likely with rising prices, shipping costs etc the cost to FLO has increased.

Oh undoubtedly, twas just a jest!

Here is another option;

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/batteries-powerpacks/powapacs-atom-pro-26ah.html

I ordered mine a few weeks ago now, and at that time it was cheaper than the Celestron 13.2 ah at £239.

They must have cottoned on that they were selling another power bank, with double the capacity, for less money, and have since bumped it up in price by at least £60.

But even still, for an extra £60 you are jumping from 13.2 Ah to 26 Ah

Im using it to run an EQ6 r Pro at the moment and it doesn't touch the sides! Will soon add an ASIair Plus guide cam, will let you know how it fares  

ZWO 120mm mini arrived today;

I read that the black extension tube that comes fitted and should be kept on, and it should be inserted into the ZWO 30F4 Miniscope until the red part of the camera 'just' creeps into the guide scope, which should allow me to focus.

Contacted FLO who confirmed my plan of action above was all good.

Guide scope arrived earlier.

I have attached it by sliding it into the handle and festening two screws to clamp it in place. 

Do you think this is enough? There is another fitting for a screw on the base of the guide scope that I could feed a screw down through the scope into the handle from above, but I do not have the correct size screw for that.

Guide cam arrives tomorrow, AAP should be another week or two hopefully.

Thank you herne!

I think I have a plan for the setup.

My Powapacs Atom Pro 26Ah has one 12v cigarette output which I am currently using for the EQ6, all good there.

It also has a 'household' 3 pin socket on the side, just above the 'cigarette' output see image;

If I am not mistaken, I can buy this;

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-cameras/zwo-12v-5a-ac-to-dc-power-supply-adapter-for-cooled-cameras.html

to plug into this;

which enables the AAP to plug into the 3 pin socket pictured above. From there, both guide cam and eventual new astro cam can be powered from the AAP.

This way the mount and AAP are powered independently from the same bank. 

Not sure how long a 23Ah can keep all that running (with the new cooled camera added) but if I am not being dumb, this is at least a way/safe way of powering everything?

cheers guys

1 hour ago, StevieDvd said:

How are you powering the DSLR?

With the above equipment it is possible to power the AAP from the powerbank and then the mount from the AAP as you are within it's capabilities.  But once you start thinking of using the AAP power outs for dew heaters or powered/cooled cameras then a second supply is likely to be needed.

I was just about to post a link to the WO handle as that should work as a guide scope mount.

You have a USB port on your mount which should let you connect to the AAP directly with a USB Type A Male to B Male printer cable. Otherwise get an eqmod cable  - your not likely to want the handset connected when astro-imaging.

 

Thank you stevie, I did not realise the mount could be powered via the AAP!

I have rechargeable batteries for the DSLR, no powerbank required.

I have USB Dew heater that I can either plug straight into the bank, but I also have two small 'mobile charging banks' with USB ports that I can use too, so dew heaters do not require powerbank at the moment 

But, I will be adding a ZWO ASI 294 mc cooled camera soon. So I might have to look at adding more power to the system...There is always something, eh?  

Guide scope arrives tomorrow, will see if I can get it hooked up!