Messy Hair 101

My setup is working pretty much perfectly at the moment. The only issues I have are clouds and improving my processing. Why then do I have the urge to buy new kit?! Does anyone else get this?

I like having a problem to solve and buying the right tool for the job. Beyond higher quality replacements for what I have, I don't need anything.

As long as you are polar aligned and your scope is in the home position, I would get rid of the hand controller and just use APT. The alignment procedure will tell your mount it's orientation, platesolving does the same thing so there is no need to do both.

In terms of the polar alignment outline, did you turn your declination axis to 90 degrees so your telescope tube is at right angles to your mount? This will allow you to see the outline.

It's worth looking at this thread to make sure APT is set up correctly for platesolving and save your self a lot of trouble shooting.

There are loads of videos about setting your scope up for the first time, home position and PA. These are old but did the job for me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fO6hyYtPwM

I'm a firm believer in buying once (after having bought astro gear, realised it wasn't up to my expectations, sold it and bought the more expensive option anyway!) I would definitely go Pro straight off the bat. FLO recommended the 183 for my ED80 which pairs really well, although some of the shots I've seen with the 294 are amazing and make me wonder if I should have gone with that. I also shoot mono and, although I'm no pro, it hasn't been hard to pick up and get reasonable results but there is a lot more headroom to go further with mono and filters. So for example I can shoot narrowband on a full moon and still get OK data (for me anyway). Of course you need to factor in the cost of filters and a wheel which isn't to be sniffed at.

I'm pleased with my 183mm but I feel like half the great pictures I see online are with a 294mc so who knows? I don't want to be responsible for restarting the mono vs. OSC debate! 

Like a lot of astro stuff, it seems so overpriced "for what it is". Then you use it and wonder how you worked before.

The PPA is a fantastic bit of kit and just works. I think once you add in the cost of a dew heater control box, powered USB hub and some way of powering all your devices, plus cables, you're not all that far from the cost of this. The PPA sticks all that in a small box with auto dew and an app to control everything from your laptop, plus 4 power leads to connect your mount, cameras etc.

I run a main cam, guide cam, two dew heaters, mount, filter wheel and focuser off mine. I have room for a rotator if necessary.

My only annoyance is finding the optional brackets atm is nigh on impossible.

I've only platesolved in NINA and APT but there's no way it should take an hour! If it hasn't solved after a minute, something's wrong.

Assuming your settings are all correct, are you also starting in the home position? The "Things to know" section here https://www.sharpcap.co.uk/sharpcap/features/plate-solving suggests you need to be pointing the right way fairly acurately to ensure it works.

Have you tried blind plate solving?

Hopefully someone who knows about Sharpcap solving will come along soon.

That does sound like a pain. I bought my HEQ5 about 18 months ago and watched lots of videos and the belt mod was easy. Not that that really helps you...

I can tell you thought that it has made a noticeable improvement to my tracking. I definately feel the benefit. Don't feel like there was a real reduction in noise when slewing though although I never really had an issue with that.

I have pretty much an identical setup bar the 183 mc, I have the mono. I also shoot 3 minute subs for LRGB! The detail for me is faint when stretched so I imagine it would be fainter with the colour camera. As others have said, learn something like APT which will teach you how to platesolve so you know you are bang on target, then take a shot and use the autostretch tool to stretch the histogram and you should really see something, even if faint.

You could also upload one of your frames to https://nova.astrometry.net/upload and it will solve the image and show you exactly what you've taken a picture of and if it includes the Rosette.

Definately post one of your shots here and I imagine the answer will come to someone looking.

32 minutes ago, KP82 said:

Mak would be too slow for galaxies. A C8 with a 0.7x reducer would be a far better choice for small distant DSOs.

Good shout. Longer FL but not crazy long, can do planets and small DSO's, not too heavy and the price is reasonable. By jove old chap, I think you've cracked it! 

Day 367 of regretting selling my 6se 🙄🙄

2 hours ago, KP82 said:

Personally I wouldn't bother switching to anything with a similar focal length for imaging unless the current scope had very poor colour correction or was way too slow. If I were to choose something different from ED80, I'd go with either Esprit 120 (840mm FL) for smaller targets or ZS61 (360mm FL) for wide field. Another path would be a 1000 - 1250mm fast newt but this will require skills, a good mount and good seeing condition for high res imaging.

You're right of course. I haven't outgrown the ED80 yet and got to the point where CA is the limiting factor. An Esprit 80 is hard to justify, better but not drastically. The 120 would necessitate an eq6 or the like which my wife is BOUND to notice. Might be back to a secondary Mak for planets and galaxies (if I can guide well enough).

3 hours ago, StevieDvd said:

If you plan on imaging and adding a motor to the focuser, the need to upgrade the focuser deminishes as some stepper motors can hold the camera train weight. I say some as the trend now is for smaller motors, with the usb electronics encased in one unit, and some allow manual focusing to be done (others don't).

Yes I have an EAF and that does help with one issue I had with the focuser i.e. when I did up the lock nut, it moved the focus point away from where I wanted to set it which was infuriating. I did also do some work on the friction material on the drawtube to flatten that and give it greater purchase although it would sometimes still slip under weight which a focuser wouldn't stop. I must have just had a really bad one.

I feel like this thread is turning into me ragging on Skywatcher ED80 stock focusers!

6 hours ago, John said:

If it has been in a smokey environment the optics may well need cleaning and also the electronics will need to be tested fully.

I would want to see it working (demonstrated by the seller) before I committed to buy it. I would also want to examine the optics carefully for dirt or smoke residues.

I bought one of those a few years back in perfect condition, complete and in full working order for £700.00

Frankly, unless you are confident that it is in fully working order and the optics can be cleaned I would be very wary indeed.

Sorry to sound negative but I think the seller is being highly optimistic with the pricing and I doubt that they know anything about the telescope.

Very much a case of "Caveat Emptor" here I feel

 

£700 for an 8SE is not too shabby. It feels like people are asking that for the 6SE atm. I only paid £300 for my 6SE but that's another story.

I agree with John, it's high risk, especially if you've never touched a scope before. The price would need to reflect that.

In terms of an equivalent scope, Meade and Celestron are probably the main players for large SCTs. A better question is probably the classic what do you want to do with it? If you want something the whole family can use visually for example, a dobsonian might be easier and cheaper.

Really hard to tell from pictures if that's just dust, dirt or something worse. If it is just cosmetic, it's a bargain and can be calibrated out or cleaned if it's that bad and you're careful. A new power lead and eyepiece are no issue. If it is really damage, a new corrector plate isn't cheap...

Great scopes though. Is there any way you can see it or even test it out? Even a quick test in the daytime with a diagonal and eyepiece would tell you quite a bit. Try defocusing as well which will show issues more easily than an in focus image (If it looks bad in focus, might be best to walk away.

24 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

Thank you.  I like a bit of retail therapy too

Can I share an image I took of the same object at a longer FL?  Same cameras, but at 1200mm instead of the 522mm (that is what my reduced ED80 plate solved to.   I always like having the longer focal length to go to for galaxy season.

 

Another cracker! You can see the increased detial at the longer fl but the ed80 isn't a million miles away. I would probably go more extreme fl wise with maybe a skymax 180 for planetary work which I miss 

16 minutes ago, Shimrod said:

 

Not quite sure of the mathematics on that - you can get the Ed80 for £379, and a Baader Steeltrack is £305 (that's with addtional adapter ring and finder shoe). You can then sell the original focuser for around £80 (mine sold on ebay) - that's gives a total of just under £600.

True but the DS Pro Outfit (which is what I have) is £499, plus the Steeltrack and other odds and sods is over £800. You get the idea. I hadn't factored in selling off any parts. Did you sell your old focuser with screws or not? I had to drill mine out in the end as they're glued in which would effect resale value.

53 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

I kinda felt too that an upgrade was an inevitable right of passage, but yet I still havent really surpassed my old images despite investing in 'better' kit

This is one of my favourites, cropped heavily, taken with the ED80 dual rig.  Not terrible for 80mm aperture

Fantastic image. You're right of course. Perhaps I'm just after some retail therapy. There's certainly more I can do with this rig, improving my focussing and post processing for starters. I need to master it all before I need to upgrade the ED80. Maybe I go back to looking for a longer focal length scope to compliment my setup. Thanks for your input.

10 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

I personally havent found the focuser to be an issue on my ED80, and I have had a lot of kit hanging off it.  However my daughter wanted a gold telescope for Christmas, so I bought her a Alt-Az mount and she is now the proud owner my gold ED80.  I replaced this with a SharpStar94.  I looked at the Esprits, but the focal length, speed and the 44mm imaging circle swung it for me.  I've only used it a few nights, so hard to comment, but the biggest thing that I can see is that the RGB filters focus at the same position, and the stars seem overall smaller.  I am getting some haloes that I didnt notice before, but nothing that really upsets me.

Hmm. I wonder if the gold ones had better focusers, or perhaps better QC? I have the black diamond. Mine was passable but it feels so much worse in hindsight after upgrading to a Baader Steel track. I think i could hang off the back of that and it wouldn't move.

I'd love to hear more on the Sharpstar as that's on my radar. A triplet with larger aperture but light and competitively priced. There's a lot to like.

54 minutes ago, licho52 said:

I went to Esprit 80 directly as I felt that the 80ED (which I considered) wasn't such a great value especially concerning its focuser.  I exactly expected to hit the point you did with your 80ED and ending up looking to upgrade....so I just got the Esprit, no regrets.

Yes once you factor in a new focuser, you have spent nearer £800. The ED80 is great scope but I'm just checking how other people have found upgrading from it to another refractor and whether I would benefit from increasing the aperture although that then starts to push the mount capacity. Tricky. If anyone out there went from an ED80 to something other than an Esprit, it would be interesting to hear.

31 minutes ago, tenpinmark said:

In the dark, you shouldn't be able to see the writing ... but I agree, the OCD in me is twitching like mad right now

I do spend an inordinate amount if time staring at my setup in the day until I can use it!

How are you finding this scope? I was considering upgrading from an 80 ed and was looking for a triplet that was nearer 4" and not too heavy for an HEQ5. Just stumbled across this scope and it seems to tick a lot of boxes.

Shameless plug but I have a ZWO 120MC S listed in the for sale section. I wanted £95 for it but might do a deal as it's not shifting.

I do love the white and green of the Skywatcher. I have an Evoguide 50 too. Just wondering though why the writing is upside down? It would drive me nuts not rotating it but that's probably just me!

2 hours ago, PeterCPC said:

I have mainly imaged with an ED80 but I recently acquired an Esprit 100. It has better optics and gathers light quicker but I could not say that the difference was vast. It has a much nicer focuser as well. The Esprit is now my default telescope. You will notice the difference in weight - it's much heavier.

Thanks for this Peter. It sounds like you have taken the path I was looking at. As I suspected, the returns are there but diminishing. I'm also aware that my ED80 is not as cheap as it sounds once you add a decent focuser (the stock one really is awful), new guide rings, FR/FF etc.

I did wonder about the weight but if you can mange it on an AVX, the HEQ5 should be OK (just about).

Hmm, more to ponder.

I had a 6se I bought second hand a few years ago for £300 with mount and accessories. Clearly bargain of the century looking at prices now!

Last year, I sold it as I got a HEQ5 and ED80 refractor. They are far better suited to deep sky astrophotography and I'm very pleased with them, although I regret selling the 6se.

Main reason is the ability to shoot planetary easily with the 6SE, although the benefits of the plethora of DSO targets offsets that. I can still shoot the moon and planets in a limited way. I prefer my refractor but I'm sure plenty would argue towards SCTs. The ED80 is certainly more forgiving for beginners.

The 6SE will be great for solar system objects and some basic DSO work, the limitations are the mount being alt az rather than equatorial, and the longer focal length. You will be limited on what you can do in terms of DSOs.

Just be aware, astro work increases the cost by several orders of magnitude - I would consider my set up with all the additions, cameras etc. intermediate. That's easily cost me £4k and I'm ignoring the laptop I was gifted which I use to control it, plus my PC, plus Photoshop... etc. etc.

Sorry for the rambling post, just my thoughts having owned one.

If you're on a budget and want to mainly observe with some basic photography, a dobsonian is probably your best bet in terms of value for money.

I'm flirting with the idea of upgrading from ED80DS Pro as I feel I'm getting towards the end of what I can do with it. I would like to stick with a refractor but go for a triplet. Ideally something with more aperture. Has anyone gone from my OTA to an Esprit 100 or perhaps WO 81GTI? Did you notice much of a difference given the increase in cost?

Having played around with the rosette and HaRGB, I appreciate how well you've done here! I do love the detail and structure you get from Ha. Curious to see how it will look if you can gather more colour data. I have a very similar setup although using a 183MM pro and just a ED80 Pro rather than Esprit.