Nyctimene

5 hours ago, IvorHogseye said:

I’ll make a dew shield

Don't forget the dew shield for the finder, as mentioned above (unheated, aperture 2x = length). I've even made dew shields for the RDF's of two scopes. If finder and RDF both are dewed up, you are out of business, except for moon and planets.

Stephan

1 hour ago, Nitecoda said:

a star map

One of the most used star maps:

https://shopatsky.com/products/pocket-sky-atlas-second-edition

Best paired with a planetarium smartphone app, e.g. SkySafari 6 Plus, or Stellarium. Allows you to display a  field of view, that matches exactly the view with your binoculars or telescope.

Stephan

9 hours ago, dweller25 said:

You are doing all the right things 👍

I agree; and people on here seem to respect your sensible approach - no one has suggested a particular scope or binocular. Nor will I do. But what about starting to keep a little diary/logbook during your way into this wonderful hobby (or way of life)? I did this more than five decades ago, of course as a paper version (still recommended-no media disruption!), and I love to read my first entries and follow my way through many years of fruitful observations. Just a few notes - time, location, sky conditions, instrument, targets; perhaps some basic sketches etc., as you like.

Welcome to the forum, and Clear Dorset Skies!
Stephan

On 25/10/2022 at 12:40, Sunshine said:

Of the million times I had seen the Pleiades it didn’t occur to me that the nebulously surrounding Merope had its own name 🤣

Not only a name, but even a number in the famous NGC catalogue - 1435. The nebula around Maia got the number 1432.

There's even an IC number, a small part of the Merope nebula, close SE to Merope itself, got the designation IC 349. It seems to be a real challenge; you'll need a 12" at least, and an eyepiece with an occulting bar to block the bright glare of Merope. Never tried this up to now (but might be a challenge for a clear winter night).

Stephan

2 hours ago, RobertI said:

is this a reasonable expectation do you think?

Excellent sketch - but keep in mind, that the "nebulosity" part of it was done with a 5" frac under exceptionally dark 6.4 NELM skies (Grandprè/France, between Reims and Verdun). Under my 21.4 SQM-L / 6.0 NELM skies (max.) I've never seen it that good. For me, the Merope nebula appears way less obvious and doesn't extend that far to the south. But it's doable, even with binoculars (comment by Ha-Jü Merk, who observed it with 15x70).

Most important are dark skies - I'd guess, SQM-L 21+/NELM 5.8 or better, and good transparency (low air humidity, no  haze, dust or pollen). Under these conditions, it's not difficult to spot even with 4" scopes. Keep your optics free from fogging up, especially the (low-power) eyepiece, and cover your head with an observing hood or dark cloth (watch out! - increases eyepiece fogging). No filters. If you think, you've spotted the nebula, you can confirm your finding by comparing both sides of "Ally's braid" - that's the pretty star chain, extending from Alcyone to the S. The eastern side of the star chain is completely clear and dark, without a trace of nebulosity, whereas the W side will be filled with the roughly trapezoidal shaped/irregular Merope nebula. Chances are, that you have already spotted it:

7 hours ago, RobertI said:

I think I’ve seen some nebulosity I realise that I am seeing the same thing with all bright stars

That's right; all the bright Pleiade's members are embedded in reflection nebulas. The Merope nebula is just the brightest one.

Give it a go, and let us know!

Clear skies

Stephan

If bulk is the main issue, and you don't want to start with astrophotography at the moment, why not a smaller collapsible Dobsonian, as the Skywatcher 130 P Flextube (in the US, the AWB OneSky Newtonian), or it's slightly bigger brother the 150 P? Very easy to store, transport and to set up,  and more versatile than a Maksutov (which will be more suited for lunar and planetary observations). Given the dark skies in Idaho, it would give you very impressive wide field views. Many pleased owners of the OneSky Newtonian; have a look at the (for good reason) huge CloudyNights thread:

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/463109-onesky-newtonian-astronomers-without-borders/

Some information and data about the 150 P Flextube:

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p12279_Skywatcher-Dobson-Telescope-Heritage-150P-Flextube---150-mm-Aperture.html

A comparing discussion:

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/793404-zhumell-z130-vs-heritage-150-vs-starblast-6/

Take yourself time, and keep on asking.

Stephan

Because it is very likely rubbish. Many so-called "beginner scopes" are advertised with abnormal high magnifications. I'm guessing, it's a "refractor" telescope with a lens at the upper end of the tube. Usually, the mounts of these scopes are flimsy, so a lot of disappointment is to be expected.

If you could post a photo, especially of the specifications label, it would be helpful to give you more advice.

I'd steer away from this scope. Buy from a renowned retailer after  reading a lot in the "Beginner" section on here.

Enjoy the journey - and a warm welcome here!

Stephan

Some interesting aspects of the similar "aperture fever" are discussed here:

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/827560-so-whats-the-opposite-of-aperture-fever/

Quoted from that:

"However, satisfaction is not an external force with an external solution. It's found inside ourselves when we stop relying in our equipment to show us anything and take responsibility for what we see. A funny thing happens on the journey to actually learning to use our scopes through experience and training. We realize the best accessory we can invest in to see more in whatever scope we have is free of charge. It's not (really) the equipment. It's us. Of course, better equipment is better, so by all means get it if you want or need it. Just don't forget observing is a very personal human endeavor. That's when aperture fever fades, that's the cure. The opposite."

So, don't just expect better views with a new telescope, but learn to view better (=more eyepiece time, at best under dark skies) with your very capable 6" Heritage; that's the way to more satisfaction. Every scope has it's sky.

Stephan

Just came in from a short view at the moon with the 130 P Flextube. Spotted unplanned the last phase of the light-shadow phenomenon "Hesiodus crater ray". The floor of Hesiodus was already well lit, but close to the crater wall, that separates Pitatus from Hesiodus, and that contains the gap, through which the sunlight is projected on Hesiodus' floor, the wall's  shadow was still visible, and separated by the cone-shaped ray. Magnification was 100-150x (Seben zoom).The beginning of the phenomenon was scheduled for 10.15 UT, and I had not expected, that it would last that long. The next favourable chance to spot this ray will be for Europe March 30, 2023, UT 20.20, with the moon high up in Gemini, according to this:

http://www.lunar-occultations.com/rlo/rays/hesiodusp.htm

A nice overview about lunar clair-obscure effects (Lunar X, V etc.):

https://astronomy.com/magazine/2018/11/observe-shadow-play--on-the-moon

Stephan

Another ES eyepiece to consider might be the 26mmf/62° LER. It's lighter (220  vs 340g), and gives with my Heritage 130 P Flextube (f/5) almost the same field of view (2.48° vs 2.51°), and a magnification of 25x vs 27.1x. The price here in Germany is 125€ vs 185€ for the 24/68.

I appreciate that eyepiece; the views are very clear, sharp, (with beginning deterioration at about 80-85% of the TFoV) and without kidney beaning or other faults. It's a very relaxed viewing, with or without glasses,  way better than with my 20 mmf/66° UWA. It somehow reminds me of the older Zeiss binoculars - very sharp on axis, wide field, and the outer deterioration as a quite "natural" impression. And the eye lens diameter is 26 mm (just measured this). Members bomberbaz and greymouser have got one and may chime in. Hth.

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p9542_Explore-Scientific-62--LER-Eyepiece-26-mm--argon-purged.html

Stephan

No, not M 32 or 110; those are conspicuous and well known members of the gravitationally bounded M 31 group (a subgroup of the Local Group). Phil Harrington's wonderful book "Cosmic Challenge" pointed me to the two unremarkable dwarf galaxies NGC 185 (9.3 mag) and 147 (9.4 mag) in Cas ( Small Scope Challenge; # 63; matches perfectly the number of my observations in 2022). The trusty Heritage 130 P Flextube was set up within five minutes; but the conditions were not favourable - NELM 4.9; M31 barely visible, Milky Way washed out. I started with 25x mag and 2.5° TFoV from M 31 moving towards Cas and arrived, star-hopping, soon at the star field. 185 was well positioned between two 8.5 stars and was visible as a large, diffuse patch of 6 arc min diameter, almost round, best with mags of 50-80x, first only with AV, later on directly. It's neighbour, just 1° to the W and in the same field of view was, despite the same brightness, way more difficult, due to the low surface brightness of just 14.2. I was able to make it out about 4 or 5 moments with averted vision within 15 mins of observing. So, all in all, most unspectacular objects. But, for me, the fun is chasing them down, and the knowledge I have or gain about their nature and dimensions - and that I'm privileged, to pay them a visit. And it's good, to be out under the stars again.

Attached Phil Harrington's drawing:

http://cloudynights.com/images/2018/2018-11_CC_files/sketch.jpg

Thanks for reading

Stephan

16 at the moment - four of the 77/82° AFoV range, three UWA 66°, one 62°; six Orthos. Two 8-24 zooms, two barlows. All collected during the last 25 years. An older set of five  31 mm barrel Lichtenknecker eyepieces is out of use now.

Last buy was the 12.5 mmf/82° Docter, two years ago. No green/black ones; never was plagued with Eyepiece Acquisition Syndrome.

Stephan

19 hours ago, RobertI said:

I then spent some time on my nemesis the Crescent, and could eventually make out a very faint oval glow with a brighter corner with the Oiii. Pretty much the same as previous attempts. Why this is called a ‘bright nebula’ is beyond me!

Congrats for spotting the Crescent. Compared to it, the Veil is easy. It's almost always visible only with averted vision and O III in my SQM-L 21+ skies, even with the big dob. To locate it is not as easy as well. Look for a trapezium of 6 - 8 mag stars (HD 192536; HR 7752; HD 192766 and HD 192422). The last one is very close to the variable star RS Cyg, which glows in distinct orange colour. When you have found it, you can be sure to be on the right track. 20 arc min to the SW the three stars that are embedded in 6888 are now easily to locate. You'll need dark skies and good transparency and a low to medium power eyepiece. Hth.

Stephan

Nice and vivid report; love the "handbag" star cluster drawing (never observed Dolize 17, but will have a look at it).

12 hours ago, Ratlet said:

No nebulosity visible (not sure if you could see any with a 130PDS at x20)

Your scope will show the Pleiades nebulosities quite well, but you will need good (winter) transparency and dark skies. Your work schedule seems to support this.....

Many of the main Pleiades stars are embedded in reflecting nebulas; most obvious is the Merope nebula (with an NGC number - 1435), extending S from Merope, with a roughly triangular shape. If you are not sure, whether you spotted it, there is an easy trick. Compare the two sides of Ally's (=Alcyone's) Braid - that's the lovely star chain extending from Alcyone to the S (shown as a curved line of stars in your first and third drawing). If the E side of the chain is dark, but the W side somewhat "brighter", you have spotted the Merope nebula. You can try this with the other Pleiades stars/nebulas as well. Low magnification helps; and it's important to keep your optics free from fogging up. Use an observing hood or a dark towel for better contrast.

Added: a drawing by Mel Bartels of the extremely faint "Pleiades Bubble", surrounding the star cluster, with a 6" f/2.8:

Hth.

Stephan

4 hours ago, Gfamily said:

That said, I would say that binoculars complement telescopes, so if someone is looking for a telescope, the best advice is get both.  And for the OP - the suggestion of the 150P Heritage collapsing Dob is probably one that would not disappoint.

+1 for that. Given your budget, I'd get the slightly smaller 130 P Flextube or the Zhumell, and add a binocular; any from 7x35 to 10x50 will do. You could have a look at the second hand market; some of the old Japanese binoculars are available at low prices, and have good optics. You will need some extra money for the usual accessory pack; i.e planisphere, red torch, Pocket Sky Atlas or similar, SkySafari/Stellarium software; Barlow lens; 32 mmf Plössl eyepiece for widefield, UHC filter; Cheshire for collimation. If your family remains addicted to the hobby, the 130P will serve as an excellent grab-and-go scope, easily to handle even for children. And you'll  be not in doubt, whether an addition of an 8" or 10" might be sensible and rewarding.....;-)

Stephan

41 minutes ago, Mike Q said:

I keep looking at those and it would be so easy to make one of those.  I really should just build one and be done with it

Should be doable, but you'll need a good router (plywood thickness 26 mm!), and a table saw. But I guess, with all the quality material and fittings added, it might be not that much cheaper. In case you are a seasoned woodworker, go for it! (I could send you some measurements and details, if needed).

Stephan

21 hours ago, Dave scutt said:

Hi all.

I want to get a chair for observing, the ones in the shops are too expensive , I thought about making one but my wood working skills would let me down.

I came across this , would it be stable enough when at full height,  extends to 32".

Dave

As others have stated, and, IMO as well, way overpriced - and not sturdy enough for observing with a 12" Dob.

I'm very pleased, after ten years of intensive use, with my "Füssener Astrostuhl"; here my short review from 2017:

Not cheap at all (at the  moment 238€ for the Magnum version); but might be the ultimate solution, even for observing with bigger dobs:

The "Füssener Astro-Stuhl", developed 2005 by the Füssener Stargazer's group( with a lot of experience and knowledge of a stargazer's needs).

Very stable (up to 100 kg load), with adjustable seat heights from 31 up to 115 cm. The lower board, usually a footrest,  serves as a step, when I'm observing with the 18", whilst standing, near the zenith. I'm feeling quite comfortable, relaxed and safe, when sitting on the top board at maximal height. You can even stretch it out for observing reclined, with bins, or naked eye for meteor showers.

Got mine as a family gift for my 60. birthday as a "retirement chair", ordered here:

www.intercon-spacetec.de/zubehoer/astronomie-zubehoer/stuehle/3261-fuessener-astro-stuhl-mag

Might also be an interesting DIY project (or carpenter's work).

Stephan

Update: The chair is still available, now priced at 283€ (Magnum version):

https://www.intercon-spacetec.de/zubehoer/astronomie-zubehoer/stuehle/4889-ics-astro-stuhl-magnum-grau-hoehe-115-cm-beobachterstuhl.html

(website in German only). Very reliable retailer; runs the production of proprietary  quality scopes.

One of my most appreciated gifts ever - just for the price of a mid-class eyepiece, e.g. a Baader Morpheus, but you get a lot of observing comfort and safety. The chair oozes quality, is rock solid, stands well on uneven surfaces; no signs of flaw (materials are mountain ash, birch plywood and stainless steel fittings). You can move it easily (it's well balanced) and even adjust your height of seat, without looking, and with just one hand, in a few seconds! Some nice accessories are available as well. Folds down to 45 mm thickness, so easy to stow away.

I've never understood observers, who spend a lot of money on eyepieces, upgrading mounts etc., and scrimp on a good seat. As Mel Bartels, an extremely experienced observer, reports, you gain up to 0.5 limiting star magnitude, when observing seated - that's a lot! For extended observing sessions (think of the upcoming Mars opposition), vital.

Stephan

+1 more vote for the smaller aperture of 150 mm. There will be a loss of about 0.6 stellar magnitudes compared to the 8" - noticeable, but not restricting, especially for a newbie. And the Heritage Flextubes are very easy to handle, very compact and lightweight, with (regarding the price) excellent optics. My 130 P holds collimation well - important for the transport situation. It will give you a lot of fun under dark skies. You will not regret the buy; and later, with a new car, more options are given.

Some food for thought below:

https://telescopenights.com/star-brightness-luminosity-and-magnitude-what-to-know/

Enjoy the journey, and Clear Skies!

Stephan

4 hours ago, lordwimsey said:

I will have a look at the focuser, and I think the shroud is a must. I am also a bit into the so-called "maker"-scene, I own a self built CNC-Router, a laser cutter and a 3d-printer (of course). I am planning to make the shroud of thin hobby rubber sheets with the lasercutter, just for the sake of doing that. 

Maybe this would make improving a bit easier - some work for your 3 D printer (no own experience with that):

https://www.yeggi.com/q/heritage+130p/

Hth.

Stephan

Hello, Peter, and a warm welcome from another German stargazer and Heritage 130 P Flextube owner. I'm sure, that you will enjoy your scope. Clear Skies.

Stephan     

1 hour ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

Coincidentally I was trying to image the PK64+5.1 last night, and four nights ago, with a C8,  and to my frustration failed to see anything like it on screen or in the saved images. Nor could I establish whether I had been aiming at the correct field.

I guess, that your aiming was off - with a total magnitude of 11.3, the central star of 10 or 11, it should be easy to capture it with 8". There is an E - W star chain of three stars,equally spaced, all around 10th mag, starting with V1744 Cyg, 34' W of Phi Cyg. Next is SAO 68544. The last in the chain is actually "Campbell's Hydrogen Star". Hth.

Stephan

Last evening, I visited for the second time "Campbell's Hydrogen Star" in Cygnus, rather close to Albireo, with the 18" Obsession. It's an unusual planetary, as it's tiny disc is glowing in reddish colour, not the usual blue or green of the OII emission lines. The colour derives from the planetary's emission lines in hydrogen, oxygen and carbon (have a look at the ESA link below). I started from Phi Cygni with mag 68 (30 mmf), still under murky 5.0 NELM/20.8 SQM-L skies; the planetary was visible after a short star hop as a not quite sharp star with a distinct salmon pink colour. Increasing the mag to 167x (Docter 12,5) showed a tiny coloured disc (7"), surrounding the 11 mag whitish central star. The suggested H beta filter increased the contrast to the background, but diminished the colour impression. Doubling the mag was without significant effect. The best view I had was with 227x (18 mmf+2x Barlow), without filter. -

The nice Delphinus globular 6934 was well resolved (not quite to the core) with 227x. Two faint 12.5/12.8 galaxy spindles at an angle of 90°, 1,3° S of Eta Del, 6928 and 6930, could be made out with direct vision, 6928 (SB type) with a bright, slightly oblong core region; the latter more diffuse. - Saturn was wobbly, the Cassini not visible.

The hydrogen star (in SkySafari to be found by it's PK number PK 64+5.1) should be in reach of medium scopes of 6-8"; so give it a go, and let us know" !

Added the link: https://esahubble.org/images/potw1337a/

Thanks for reading

Stephan

Welcome to this friendly forum; and congrats to your scope, as well as to your observing conditions (free views to the E/SE;W and N will give you many options).

Your 130 P Flextube looks indeed unused. I own the same, and it's an incredible "mighty" little scope, my most used grab-and-go scope. You will need years to exhaust it's capabilities, so no need to think of a bigger dob now (the law of diminishing returns...).

Just in case you shouldn't know - the huge CloudyNights thread (246 pages!!) about the OneSky Newtonian (the same scope, US-version); many experiences and hints:

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/463109-onesky-newtonian-astronomers-without-borders/

I'm very happy with this not too expensive eyepiece combination:

Explore Scientific 26 mmf/62° LER; Seben Zoom 8-24 mmf (various clones existing); Baader Turret Barlow 2.25x. Magnifications from 25x up to 183x. Covers 90% of my observations.

Enjoy your scope, and Clear Skies!

Stephan

Under Bortle 4 skies, the NAN can be made out in good, transparent nights without a filter, even with binoculars. For fun, I'm using sometimes my tiny Docter 8x21 monocular with success. Of course, the view with filters is way superior, and your 10" the adequate scope. But you have to know, where to look. For a first approach, imagine an ancient crossbow; the "handle" represented by 56 and 57 Cyg, pointing NE (away from Cygnus). The "bow" is located already just inside the NAN along it's W border (the brightest stars HR 8023 and 8035). There is also a small "Orion" asterism just opposite of the "Gulf" region for further confirmation. You can make it out close to the upper part of the inner FOV circle in Stu's first screenshot above. Usually, the "Gulf" region is the most prominent part of the NAN. Get the eyepiece with the longest focal length, screw in an UHC or OIII filter, and give it another try! You will succeed!

Stephan