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Posts posted by Breakintheclouds
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Ah well. I've clearly got this wrong, and have ended up getting it aligned by accident. But I don't care - my go-tos are spot on and that's all that matters!
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Hi Chris
Okay, that's weird. Your method makes a lot of sense, I guess. But I'm puzzled why mine seemed to work so well last night. Certainly I don't think that parking to the home position initially was getting those numbers to the exact 06 and 90 positions. I suppose it might depend if those numbers come from the encoders or EQMOD itself
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So I've been doing some experimentation on improving my EQMOD go-to performance after generally finding the go-tos were a little too far off-target for my taste. They weren't bad, but I wondered if it could be better, especially for imaging where it's a pain if the target doesn't land in the middle of the camera sensor. I hit upon this series of steps that made a big difference to the quality of my EQMOD alignment: go-to targets now land right in the middle of a small (20x17 arcminute) CCD view every time.
The idea is to redefine your mount's park position, using EQMOD to get it absolutely spot-on. This gives you a much better starting point for doing your alignment.
- Connect to the telescope and activate EQMOD in your usual way
- Unpark the scope. Turn off tracking
- In EQMOD, click once on the little button beneath the ASCOM logo (it has a window and a plus-sign). The display changes to the two rings
- The aim now is to re-define your parking place as EXACTLY level and pointing EXACTLY north. Use the N, S, E, W controls, or your game controller, until the number beneath the left-hand ring is 06:00:00 and the number beneath the right-hand ring is 90:00:00. Take the time to get these numbers exact. Your mount is now sitting in the perfect parking place. The remaining steps are to tell EQMOD that this is now its parking place for the mount.
- Do not park the scope.
- Shutdown EQMOD (in SkyTools I use the "disconnect telescope" option to do this)
- Turn off the mount's power
- Power the mount on again
- Restart EQMOD. It'll report that the mount is unparked
- Press park (the mount won't move, and your new, perfectly central position will be recorded as the new park position)
This then gives you the perfect starting place for star alignment, and that seems to make a big difference to how well the alignment works. The first two go-tos I made last night were off-target, as usual, and I had to use the finder to get them on target (as usual). But after registering just two alignment stars, my go-tos became almost impeccable. Registering some more alignment stars in EQMOD was quick (as the go-tos were so close to their targets). I'm now VERY happy with my go-tos landing within just one or two arcminutes of the target every time.
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- Connect to the telescope and activate EQMOD in your usual way
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Something to consider is that pictures are very artificial: two-dimensional representations of three-dimensional objects or scenes are effectively a cultural invention and in large part only 'work' because we're taught to interpret them in certain ways - even photographs. For example, if you look at this picture here it probably means almost nothing to you, but to an aboriginal Australian it depicts a meaningful scene because it follows the rules they happen to use to depict images (the semicircles are, I believe, people). We have our own set of rules, which to an outsider are probably just as alien as the set used in that picture are to you. So I wonder if your son just hadn't entirely got on board with the set of rules and principles we use in our culture to depict 3D things in 2D scenes?
To put this in different terms, the rules we in the West use to depict 3D objects in 2D scenes are the rules that M C Escher knew well enough to play with them at will.
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my son apparently has no 3d vision
Well, clearly he does if he can catch a ball! The thing is, there's much more to 3D vision than the information we get from having two eyes. In fact, the depth cues you get from having two eyes only work over a fairly small range of distances - when something is at any sort of distance (over, say, 50m) the information in each eye is basically the same. And when you're doing something really close up that requires depth perception, like threading a needle, you probably close one eye!
In fact, much of the information we use for judging distance works just fine if you close one eye. I can tell my computer is closer than my desk right now because the computer blocks part of the desk (yes, simple as it sounds, this is actually a major depth cue). We can also tell a lot about depth from parallax effects: move your head and close objects move faster than far objects. There are a load of other, similar cues, which work with one eye. These will be what your son is using.
As my old visual perception lecturer once said: the main reason we have two eyes is most likely so that we have a spare.
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The world is the right way up - it's just the light falls onto your retina upside-down. Have a look here:
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Yes, it's all upside down. The cornea and lens in your eye effectively form a single (uncoated - pah!) optical element, and this projects an upside-down image onto the retina.
There was an experiment once where somebody spent a week wearing special goggles that turned everything upside down. For the first few days they spent a lot of time falling over, walking into things and stabbing themselves with forks. Then, after a few days experience with this new world, they totally got used to it. Of course, when they took the goggles off after a week they had to re-adjust all over again!
So what all this shows is that your brain soon adjusts to the input it gets. For all of us, our brains since birth have only ever seen the world upside-down - so they've long ago got used to it.
Ian
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Well I think we've all learnt something very important about punctuation here! I'm going to hang on to this page for next time I hear someone suggesting that people shouldn't be so up-tight about good punctuation.
(Goes off to light candles at the Lynn Truss shrine.)
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Er... I'm not sure where Colin came from: my name is Ian! But thanks for the thanks anyway.
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As a relative newbie to astronomy I can't really contribute any tutorials on nebulae and planets, but in the spirit of giving back to this forum, from where I've learnt so much, here is a short primer on the eye and how it works in the dark, in the hope it helps people understand all this stuff about red lights, averted gaze and telescope tapping. (I'm a psychologist with a background in neuroscience...)
THE RETINA
As you probably know, the back of the eye is coated with a layer of cells called the retina. Many neuroscientists see the retina as an extension of the brain because it isn't just a passive light receiver, like the CCD or CMOS sensor in your digital camera. Rather, the retina does quite a lot of active image processing - in particular, your ability to see the edges of objects is largely thanks to processing that takes place on the retina rather than in the brain proper.
The retina is coated with light-sensitive nerve cells which, when they receive enough light (usually it takes several photons arriving at more-or-less the same time, even with the most sensitive cells), send signals to other nerve cells on the retina, which send signals to other nerve cells on the retina, which then send signals to the brain proper.
There are several types of light-receptor cells on the retina, but the most important are cones and rods. Cones are good at seeing colour and shapes but don't really process movement too well; rods are really good at seeing movement, but are pretty much colour-blind. Cones need a lot of light to function; rods don't need anywhere near as much, and indeed often get washed-out completely and don't work in daylight.
(Incidentally, the light that falls on the retina, having been focused by the cornea and lens, is upside-down: the only reason we don't notice this is because we're used to it, never having seen the world the right way up. So when you look through a telescope, and everything feels upside-down, the light on your retina is actually the right way up for once!)
(Also incidentally, the various links in the chain - from the retinal photoreceptors to the the cells in the brain - are 'noisy': they fire spontaneously from time to time and give the illusion of seeing light. Ever been somewhere completely dark, like down a cave? You might notice that in the absence of all light you don't perceive blackness, but rather a mid-grey. It's known as 'cortical grey' and is the product of this spontaneous activity in the visual system. Cortical grey is the real background against which you see everything, and is another reason why it's difficult to see faint grey objects - by which I mean half the things we want to view in astronomy! We see them against a grey background of our own making, which reduces their contrast just like light pollution does.)
THE FOVEA
Stare at an object - any object. Done that? Good. As you stared at it, most of the light that came from that object fell on the central, most sensitive part of your retina, called the fovea. The fovea is packed with cones, and so is really good at seeing colours and shapes. However, it contains next to no rods. These are much more common towards the edge of the retina, and so contribute more to your peripheral vision. The number of rods grows as you move outwards and the number of cones falls correspondingly, until right at the very edge of the retina you have only rods, and no cones at all.
Here's something interesting you can try, to see this for yourself. Get two or three coloured pens or pencils, and mix them up behind your back. Pick one at random and hold it up, at arm's length, behind yourself, so that you can't see it as you stare straight ahead.
Now - continuing to stare straight ahead - begin to wiggle the pen with your fingers and then move your arm round until the pen enters your peripheral vision. You should notice two things. First, you will probably have no idea what colour the pen is! You can see it moving, and might even be able to tell more-or-less what shape it is, but you can't see any colour. That's because you're only seeing the pen using rods, and they are colour-blind. Now, keeping your arm in the same place, stop wiggling the pen. You should find that it becomes invisible. That's because rods are much better at seeing movement than they are at seeing shapes.
RED LIGHT AT NIGHT
During the day, when it is bright, your rods are often completely saturated by light and don't really contribute too much to your overall vision. They come into their own when light levels are low.
One important thing to know about rods is that if you removed one from an eye and looked at it under a microscope you would see that it is, more-or-less, red in colour. That's because it is filled with a reddish pigment called rhodopsin. Think for a moment what it means if an object - like an apple - is red. A red object is red because it bounces back any red light which falls on it and absorbs all other light - particularly green, which is red's opposite. So that is why we use red lights in astronomy: our rods, which we rely on when we look at things in low light levels, just bounce it straight back. Your cones certainly pick up red light, and so you can use them to look at star charts and so on, but it doesn't matter that these cones then get washed out from the exposure: the all-important rods are pretty much unaffected because they just don't see red light (a person who had only rods in their eyes wouldn't notice if you turned a red light on).
The second consequence of rods being red is that they are most sensitive to green light - the opposite pattern to during the day when you are most sensitive to red. So on the one hand avoid any exposure to green light like the plague when observing, and on the other hand you should notice a phenomenon called the Purkinje Shift: notice how grass almost seems to glow when you're out at night? And notice how red things look black? That's the Purkinje Shift: your eyes' sensitivity has shifted from red to green as you've moved from using mostly cones to using mostly rods.
AVERTED GAZE AND SCOPE TAPPING
Averted gaze and telescope tapping are two tricks used to see faint objects, such as nebulae, in a telescope. You might already have worked out, from what I've said about the eye's physiology, how they work.
Let's say you're looking at the Ring Nebula. If you stare right at it then it might well be almost impossible to see its form. That's because the faint light from the nebula is falling on your fovea, which is packed almost exlusively with cones. Cones are intended for daytime use, and the light from the nebula just isn't bright enough to make them fire. By averting your gaze -- that is, by looking a couple of degrees to one side -- you make sure that the light from the nebula falls outside your fovea, onto a part of the retina which has more rods in it. Rods are better at seeing faint light, and so the nebula seems to become brighter and more visible. Incidentally, the fovea is only about 1-2 degrees across, so you don't need to avert your eyes that much before your rods come into play. But as the number of rods gets higher and higher as you move closer to the edge of the retina, the more you can avert your gaze the better in many cases. (But remember to look to the right with your right eye and to the left with your left eye, so that the object doesn't fall into the eye's blind spot.)
The downside with averted gaze is that the photoreceptors are much less tightly packed outside the fovea, and so you have less acuity when averted than when looking straight at something. If you want proof, try to read text whilst staring at a dot in the page's margin...
Another trick for seeing faint objects (the Veil Nebula comes to mind here) is gently to tap the telescope, to make the view shake. This is because, as you saw with the pens, your rods are much better at seeing things that are in motion than they are at seeing unmoving objects. The extra little bit of motion really helps your rods detect the object.
So there you go: red lights, averted gaze and telescope tapping - they all work for pretty basic biological reasons.
WANT TO LEARN MORE?
Semir Zeki's book A Vision of the Brain is the classic text. Also any textbook on human perception (they're all called 'Sensation and Perception' or something very similar) will have loads of useful information. Sekuler & Blake's 'Perception' is particularly good.
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My very first attempt at any sort of astrophotography. I have to say, processing these images is a very black art! Anyway, this is the Bubble Nebula taken using the lightbuckets.com 24-inch telescope. 4 x 2 min luminance subs with 2 x 2 min of red, green and blue.
I can tell it's not great - the stars feel very bloated - but I'm coming to terms with Iris. Any tips on using that program will be gratefully received.
Edit: Too much colour, I think...
A dobsonian mount for an existing OTA?
in Discussions - Mounts
Posted
Hello everyone
I have a 250mm Newtonian OTA that is kind of sitting idle. I'd love to mount it as a dobsonian for quick observing sessions, but I'm struggling to find a suitable mount. Does anybody know whether it's possible to buy a mount that might hold my scope?