Cosmic Geoff

Astronomy is not a cheap hobby and £200 will not go far.  Telescopes also need a mount which can cost hundreds of pounds by itself even without the addition of motors or GoTo.

Threads like this one generally point the beginner in the direction of a Newtonian telescope (an inherently simple and cheap and easy to manufacture design) mounted on a Dobsonian mount, which is generally made of chipboard and costs only a few pounds to manufacture.  The Dobsonian telescope/mount began as a design that could be made by impecunious DIY enthusiasts, but is nowadays a commercial item.

There are other alternatives, but they are either toys or cost more because of the requirement for a more elaborate mount with tripod.  It should be pointed out that a heavy-duty fully functional metal mount with GoTo will greatly add to the potential uses of any telescope but will generally be heavy and cost a great deal of money.

Dissatisfied with an 8" Newtonian on a manual EQ-5 mount, I bought a used C8 SE (GoTo 8" SCT outfit). Problem solved.

The SE mount used with the C8 is what it is - a lightweight portable mount suitable for visual use, but not for imaging.  It can be used for planetry imaging, though the backlash is a bit annoying in this role.  The whole assembly can be picked up and carried outside through a domestic doorway.

The same OTA is available bundled with the Evolution mount - a better quality mount, or with the AVX (if you want an equatorial GoTo), or in the form of the CPC800, which has a heavy-duty twin-fork alt-azimuth GoTo mount. This is a great mount for visual observing, or planetary imaging, if you don't need an equatorial and don't mind the considerable weight.

It depends on what exactly you want to do, which is something only you can decide, not us.  You don't need a GoTo to find the moon.  GoTo can be helpful, and a greattime-saver for finding faint non-obvious objects.

2 hours ago, Ceebee58 said:

I also find searching for a target ( or just looking at something and trying to work out what it was afterwards is part of the fun ( maybe I am just strange) .

I know some people enjoy searching for objects manually and 'learning the sky' and 'star-hopping', but I have never seen the point myself. 🙂 Maybe the same people enjoy trying to navigate their cars on British roads without a sat-nav. But each to their own. Do whatever you enjoy. 🙂

You can have a mount that tracks (an equatorial) without going to the lengths of fitting GoTo to it.  A single RA drive motor will suffice.

If you have imaging in mind, you should think in terms of a full GoTo mount, and preferably not one of the cheaper lightweight ones. Should you want to secure, for instance, a live-stacked image of a 12th magnitude planetary nebula, an object more or less invisible or at least un-identifiable through a visual scope of modest size, you will have a dismal time without a GoTo to aim the scope at the right area, secure an image for plate-solving, platesolve and automatically correct the position to centre the PN in the camera, and hold the outfit very steady while a succession of images are taken and super-imposed.

As you move beyond the 'beginner scope' stage it becomes more important to decide what you want to do and buy equipment that best does it, or resign yourself to acquiring an ever-increasing collection of assorted telescopes, mounts and accessories.

A number of these red dot finders come with a set of alternative mounting parts, including one to fit in a Synta shoe.

I have the Baader Sky Surfer III which works well, seems well made, and (unlike others I have tried) has not gone wrong yet.

Assuming the Helios is the same size and weight as a Skywatcher, an EQ5 with steel legs would be considered a barely adequate mount for it.

I once had a Helios 200mm newtonian on a manual EQ5 mount, and I thought the combination was horrible. With legs extended, the eyepiece could be 7ft off the ground, and with them retracted it could not see lower altitude objects over a 6ft fence.  The eyepiece could get into awkward positions and I had great difficulty getting non-obvious objects into the field of view.    The combination was quite stable for visual use though, in a sheltered location.  I bought a C8 SE within a few months.

The gear alignment does look like it needs fettling.  It couldn't be that the motor assemblies need to be swapped over? 😀 Or did the previous owner fit the wrong upgrade kit??

It is impossible to quantify the motor noise from a video recording, unless there is a side-by-side comparison.  But I was surprised by the level of noise my  EQ-5 Synscan upgrade made when doing a fast slew, compared with my Celestron GoTo mounts.  Otherwise the EQ-5 Synscan works OK (but I put it together myself. 🙂).

10 hours ago, Tk279 said:

Hi Shimrod! Thank you for the reply, I can hear a clicking noise as I push the rotate arrows and the connection light flickers in response to the command so its definitely being received. In terms of the clutch, it's all integrated and I don't know if I can get in there 😖 is this a take it back situation do you think?

If it's new, and you think it's faulty, refer the problem to where you bought it. It should be under warranty, and it's their problem, not yours. (And if they are useless, you know not to buy from them again.)

I have had this error twice with the same mount - a SLT Nexstar+ - and fixed it by reloading the mount firmware using the Celestron utilities.  Clearly the problem I had was corrupt firmware.  I found a utility that actually tested the firmware, which confirmed that corruption of the memories was present.

A dew shield for a SCT should be regarded as standard equipment - not an accessory.

I have found that the easiest way to get a totally out of focus SCT into focus is to aim it at a really bright near-point light source, e.g. Jupiter or Sirius. You should see a grey donut.  Just wind the focus knob in the direction that makes the donut smaller and ultimately reduces it to a point of light (or small disk, in the case of a bright planet).

I have found that Windows 7 networking always works, but Windows 10 networking is a total pain with devices failing to see each other as often as not.

If you don't know the seller it would be wise to exercise some caution.  There is not a whole lot that can go wrong with the Startravel. It's a low-powered scope, so if you can persuade the owner to let you mount it and focus on the end of his garden you will see that it basically works.

You should get the owner to power up the mount and show you that something sensible appears on the display, and that when the relevant buttons are pressed the motors make a noise and move the mount.  If you get that far, it's 99% certain to be in good order.

I suggest that you take a hard look at where you are prepared to compromise, to keep within your budget.

If you can do without a powered mount (no tracking, no GoTo) you could get a fair sized Dobsonian mounted Newtonian within your budget.

If you want GoTo, you can get a smallish telesccope on a lightweight and rather wobbly mount.

If you want a non-wobbly GoTo mount that will take sundry small and medium-sized scopes, that can be used for some entry level imaging of whatever you like, you want at minimum an Eq5 Synscan at about £700, and a HEQ5 (about £1000) or EQ6 (wellover £1000) would not be overkill.

If you want to image planets, the bigger the scope the better, but I have found one can get a result with an alt-azimuth GoTo, even a wobbly one. Alternatively, use an equatorial mount that tracks.

BTW, ALL GoTo mounts include tracking in their functions.

Note also that non-wobbly mounts can be decidedly heavy, and some setups can take quite some time to assemble and get working every time you take them out.  One of my setups is configured so that I can carry it outside and get it going in a few minutes without having to align the GoTo myself,, but if you want one exactly like it you will need to spend nearly £2000 at current prices.

22 hours ago, Bill Grimes said:

I have the opportunity to get a brand new 8” lx200 or a brand new 10” lx90 with some extras for the same price and don’t know which to get. The weight is similar I believe and I will be using for visual observation or who knows maybe some short exposure pics in the future but definitely mainly visual. I just want a quality set up that will last a lifetime. This is my long term one and done telescope. Which one do you recommend?

Neither of these options is lightweight. If you want a SCT on a heavy duty twin fork mount you should also look at Celestron's CPC range.  The CPC800 OTA/mount assembly is heavy at around 20Kg and personally I would not want to handle anything heavier.  But it is an excellent setup for planetary imaging etc and very stable, with minimal wobble.

The Meades seem to have a good reputation for optics but a poor reputation for the reliability of the mounts.  And there was something recently about the company going into receivership. Isn't the LX200 an old design?

If you want it for visual, consider also the Celestron SCTs on the SE and Evolution mounts (or an AVX, to mention another option).  The SE is decidedly the cheap option, but adequate for visual use. You can do planetary imaging with it, as I have found, but the backlash and wobble can get a bit annoying in this role.

And there are now "Classical Cassegrains" available which you should check out to see if this design appeals to you.

1 hour ago, Space Explorer said:

Hopefully you can see why I am going for this one because of money it costs  rather than going for something, where I can only see a few things and then having to spend another £1199 on this beauty later on, where with just heading straight to this, I can see those few things and 42.000 other beauties in the universe, I probably will spend a few hundred at some point in another scope if I end up at a field and for quickness I can grab a scope point and click but this is for home, not for transportation.

Yes I see your point, but a 'starter' telescope can usually be re-purposed as a grab'n go or holiday telescope.

The four brighter stars of the Trapezium are easy to see, but the E and F are more difficult. AFAIK I have only seen the E and F stars by imaging the Trapezium with my 8" SCT.

15 hours ago, Space Explorer said:

Yup saw the goto mount on a dobsonian but not with a flextube, it was a solid, for like £1099, your probably right, that I will need one, so all I have to do ask it to look at whatever I want and it will just point at it, from what I have learned, I have to first point it at an object to get it aligned, so it knows where it is, kinda like a compass, so it knows what direction planets are. The 10" is so I don't run into disappointments, if I just heard of a star or something interesting, I will have more hope the 10" inch will at the very least give me a glimpse (safety precautions  better to be prepared and ready, then ready and unprepared) I'm all sorted for the next few or so years without need to upgrade, Mr Spock has a great flextube with a goto, what do you use cosmic? 

If you are seriously considering the 10" GoTo Dob, which seems a fine instrument, you should probably run it past the person who is going to help you take it outdoors, given its size and weight.  Have you a storage location?  You also need to budget for a power pack and approx. three decent eyepieces suited to a telescope of this focal ratio (f5?)

If you want to know details of the alignment procedure (which typically involves aligning it with two stars), you can download a Synscan manual at any time.

My telescopes are in my signature, and I use all three for different tasks. I have not gone bigger than 8" as I felt a bigger instrument would be too big and too heavy for my circumstances, and the 'seeing' (q.v.) at this location would not allow a bigger telescope to give of its best except on very rare occasions.

1 hour ago, Space Explorer said:

only snag i ran into, is that there is no goto (is that something that comes built into the mount or can I attach it to the mount)

You can buy a GoTo dob (see astronomy dealers' websites) but they are far more expensive than the manual version. In general the GoTo is effectively built into the base, and the most practical (or only) way to upgrade is to sell the whole thing and buy anew.  There is an exception if the telescope is a solid tube (=round cylinder, not a truss) you can scrap the chipboard base, buy tube rings and a dovetail bar, and put it on an equatorial heavy duty GoTo mount suitable for allsorts of imaging if you want, but be warned that the cost of doing this could be eye-watering- several times what you paid for the manual outfit in the first place.

1 hour ago, Space Explorer said:

10inch aperture would be ideal as it brings in more light, according to reviews, which should be suitable for picking up passing comets, asteroids or meteorites

While a 10" is obviously more capable, you don't need one that big to see some of these things. A metorite is a space rock that has fallen to the ground.

1 hour ago, Space Explorer said:

Hi cosmic, budget was £500 till i found a couple of good scopes at around £699

If you want a GoTo mounted scope, for this budget you can buy a rather small scope on a lightweight mount.  You can buy a good sized manual Dobsonian outfit for this budget, if that's what you want. You don't need a GoTo mount to find the Moon or Jupiter. 🙂  But trying to image with a Dobsonian is like rowing across the English Channel - some people have succeeded in doing it but most people would take the ferry.

23 hours ago, Space Explorer said:

Hello, I am looking for a budget telescope that can allow me to view the moon's surface craters even the smaller ones, I have asked retail stores but they keep offering me 70mm apertures as a selling gimmick, i roughly know i need something like 130mm but more likely somewhere in the region of an 8" aperture, I have always looked up to the skies and loved astrology but with no excuses, i never took to it as a kid, so I am no expert and will probably need as much help as possible, like a automatic tracker I think they are called, plus I am also disabled, I am able to walk but not far as I become breathless, I do have help to move a telescope to outside when needed, I thought this would be a perfect place to ask, as i am assuming most of you are experts or at the very least know what i am talking about lol.

What else would be a bonus is if I was able to see an asteroid or comet close up through the lens...thanks people.

What is your budget?

What max size and weight is acceptable, given that you/your helper have to move it outside?

What kind of tracking is acceptable - manual (=you push it or twiddle knobs), motorised (= an electrical motor moves an equatorial mount (q.v.) at the right speed to counteract the Earth's rotation) or the full monty - a GoTo mount - all GoTo mounts include tracking among their functions?

Do you want to image the moon and planets only?

Or deep-sky objects in addition to these?  This has more severe requirements re. a mount and probably requires a different telescope and camera.

If you can write down answers to these and get back to us, it is more likely to elicit constructive suggestions.

As a general comment, I would suggest that you think of buying a relatively cheap and simple telescope (it does not matter that much what sort), and then buy another later in the light of what you have learnt and what you liked or didn't like about the first one.  Trying to buy a telescope for life that does everything is unlikely to work.  (that is why some of your correpondents list several telescopes and mounts in their signatures)

Note that any sort of telescope, even a small cheap one, will give a 'wow' factor when looking a the moon.

What sort of telescope you buy for observing the planets is going to be a compromise between what would be ideal, and real-life considerations like cost, size, weight and whether you are allowed to build an observatory to put it in. We can't tell you which one would suit you - it has to be your choice.  Almost every type of telescope (except short focal length achromats) has been recommended by some people as suitable for planetary observing, so the choice is wide.

There is a thread on this forum entitled "What can I expect to See?" If you have not found it yet, I suggest you do so and study it.

Asteroids - the brighter ones are not hard to see, but the hard part is distinguishing them from stars.

Comets - spectacular ones do not come around that often, but you may see one visible in binoculars or a small telescope if you wait long enough.  Imaging and GoTo gear increases your chances of bagging one. 

Don't rush to spend your money on upgrades. You should wait and see what upgrades you yourself think are necessary or desirable, after using the scope for a while.

Things you might (or might not) want to consider are: an upgrade to the stock eyepieces, especially the 9 or 10 mm one, a different finder (e.g angled or RACI), a RA motor to make the mount track, a planetary camera for a play with planetary imaging, a whole-aperture solar filter (you can make one with Baader film)

The dovetail bar that came with my ST102 Startravel is 17cm long.  However I have modified it slightly to countersing a bolt, so that it would slide into a Celestron SLT clamp, and again with an extra hole so I could slide the tube forward to balance a DSLR on the back end.

I have a Svbony helical focuser (non-rotating) and a Chinese one that looks the same. You can get these things with various different threads on the inner end, to suit your kit.  Mine screws onto the focuser of a 102mm f5 Startravel, adapting it for a planetary 1.25" camera.  The extra length is no problem if you can omit a diagonal used for visual.

1 hour ago, Ian McCallum said:

Does the SynScan goto kit make the EQ5 mount suitable for imaging?

I image things with mine. 🙂 The GoTO helps with finding targets in the first place, and with accurate tracking.  It seems to be regarded as the absolute minimum for serious imaging.

11 hours ago, Trucker360 said:

but then pops up a warning about some axis or maz mal something....

This does not seem to be a popular mount in the UK.

Until someone better informed comes along, here's my stab in the dark.  If Sirius didn't write their software from scratch, they may have based it on someone else's. In the latest Sky-watcher Synscan software, MEL and MAZ are parameters that pop up at the end of alignment to show you how much your polar alignment is off, and there is some procedure for using them to fine-tune the mechanical adjustment.  I generally ignore them as it's too much for my aged brain. 🙁

I have found that the GoTo is not very accurate, particularly if the sought object is the other side of the meridian from the two alignment stars, and have got around this by setting up the mount with added software for a "plate-solve and re-sync" (which works brilliantly, BTW).

Addendum, from review: "The Sirius equatorial mount comes with the SynScan hand controller that is often used with Orion and Sky Watcher GoTo setups. It offers a 42,900 object database, guided sky tours, and more."

Minimum: Sky-watcher EQ3-2 Synscan.

Recommendation: EQ5 Synscan - possibly better quality, definitely more possibilities for mounting alternative scopes, or imaging.

Alternatives: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/explore-scientific-mounts.html