Gib007

Interesting. I messaged @PaulABS a few days ago but he may have been busy at the time, I don't know. I've also e-mailed the webmaster e-mail address, which I guess is Paul as well. 

I've just realised that if I use my Gibraltar Internet connection, it won't work but if I switch to my 4G+ on my phone, which uses Vodafone Spain, it does. Is Gibraltar blocked? 😯

I seem to be getting a sign-in pop-up everytime I access the website, no matter which page I access. It's odd. I believe I remember my sign-in information but it won't work anyway. Is the website running anymore? Thank you. 

Readers please note that the website address for this tutorial is now:

http://www.lightvortexastronomy.com/tutorial-setting-up-and-using-astrotortilla-for-plate-solving.html

Hi, Thank you for your excellent tutorial. I used it religiously to set up both my cameras. It works fine for my 1000d Canon and plate solving works a treat. But for my Starshoot G3, it is unable to solve.

My original post is here

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/248541-unable-to-plate-solve-using-astrotortilla/

I have tried different settings to no avail. This leads me to wonder if I have the required index files.  My scope is a 200p skywatcher (f5) 1000mm FL and the FOV of my CCD camera is 21.97' x 17.01'

What index files would I need? I can then check the data folder to see if they are there. Plate solving is more important for the G3 mainly due to the small FOV, making it difficult to find and center an object. Astrometry.net, however,  solves the images virtually straight away.

Any help would be appreciated.

Surinder

Hi Surinder,

I replied to your problem in your thread. I hope it works!

Best Regards,

Kayron

Hi,

Thank you for your comments. Indeed a friend of mine recently upgraded to Nebulosity 4.0 and has the same issue with operating AstroTortilla. What he is doing, and what I would recommend doing, is selecting "File Open dialog" under "Camera". The workflow would be as follows:

1. Select "File Open dialog" as your camera in AstroTortilla.

2. Go to your intended target.

3. Use your software of choice to capture an exposure of whatever it is you're pointing at. Try to use an exposure time of 20 seconds or so, and bin 2x2 if you use a CCD camera that supports binning. If it's a monochrome camera, use your Luminance filter. 

4. Click "Capture and Solve" on AstroTortilla and a window will open asking for an image file. Point it to your captured exposure from step 3. 

5. Wait and enjoy!

Naturally, AstroTortilla always captures a second exposure after the first one, to verify the correctness of the slew. As a result, another file open window will pop up once it has apparently done its job. You can close this window and ignore it if you don't want to verify the plate solve. If you do want to verify the plate solve, keep this window open, go back to your capture software, capture a new exposure and then point the file open window to this new exposure. It will plate solve that and most likely be happy and report "Solved". That's why you can skip on the verification stage - the vast majority of people will never need a second slew to get right on target. 

Thank You every one for your great advice. 

I then followed guidance from Kayron as to the sequence for opening the different programs.  However, this still failed and AT did not re centre after solving until I changed  the append on sync command to dialogue based on Eqmod, then it solved and re-centred!! 

Thanks again

Hi Julian,

It's great to hear you fixed it and with something so simple as well. Having changed EQMod to work "Dialog Based" means Sync commands are not adding alignment points and therefore do not function as star alignment. It's not really an issue at all. After all, you go to your target, you plate solve on it and you're 100% centred on your target. You then just guide and image. No need to do star alignment at all and so having EQMod in "Dialog Based" mode is not a disadvantage. 

Best Regards,

Kayron

Thanks for your patience everyone.     As you have probably guessed I have no idea re computers etc!!

However, with everyone's kind help and time, hopefully I am getting there!!

I have now reinstalled 4212 missing from  my data file and put all of the others in a separate sub directory within the data file. 

I will let you all know how I get on on the next clear night with AT.  Oh no i hear you all gasp!

Hi Julian,

I've replied to you on my tutorial comments. I hope it helps you out - I feel it will fix your re-centering failure issue!

Best Regards,

Kayron

With a FoV of 1.79 deg x 1.2 deg how do I work out what indexes I would need?

Hi Julian,

You can take 1.79° to be your "maximum FOV" and 1.20° to be your "minimum FOV". To give some leeway both ways, you can choose the following astrometric index files:

Narrowest level: Index 4206, 313MB, 16-22 arcmin

Widest level: Index 4212, 4.0MB, 2-2.83 deg (120-170 arcmin)

That will download those two plus all the astrometric index files in-between them. It will have everything it needs to work!

Best Regards,

Kayron

I'm glad you got this sorted. Indeed, the objs command must be followed by two dashes (--objs) with no space, and then followed by a number after a space, e.g. --objs 100. They are quite fiddly, yes, but ultimately that's the way it works because those are the commands it accepts. What would be excellent is if AstroTortilla was updated to have a proper Settings menu system whereby users select stuff and enter numbers in. AstroTortilla can then use these user-set settings to produce the relevant commands automatically. This is extremely simple to program as an update to AstroTortilla. 

Moreover, another feature I think would be immensely useful, is if AstroTortilla keeps a record in a file of the index files that successfully plate solved the images. Each time it plate solves, it can then check this file and use those specific index files first and foremost, as most probably they will succeed. If they don't, then AstroTortilla should check the rest in the folder. This way it avoids the user having to check which ones are successful and move the others out of the way. It's also a fail-safe that it would later check the rest, just in case. If another is found successful, it can then add that index file to the list as well. Again, very easy to program this in!

Just a note to everyone. I updated my tutorial with the following:

- Added a new Step 4 to further optimise plate solving speed. This is done by identification of useful astrometric index files and moving the not useful ones out of the folder they are stored in. 

- Edited the text and screenshots to be more up-to-date and informative. 

This comes from the fact that this tutorial is my most popular, with a whopping 10,695 views to date. 

I have also just stumbled across your excellent guide and with it I managed to setup and successfully start using Astrotortilla - I don't know how I managed previously. Very many thanks!

Good to hear it was helpful to you!

Just came across this post and wanted to say thanks for the tutorial, very clear and explained a lot. Cant wait for clear skies now to give it a go.

More than happy to help, you're welcome!

Yep, I'm thinking it must be the simulator...

No sweat, it'll work in the field!

mhm - it slews nicely to my target if I fool around with stellarium - but it doesn't put an alignment point into EQMOD even though I ticked sync scope and re-slew to target...

any idea what's that about? I'm using the simulator mind!!

It should definitely do it if EQMod is in "Append Mode". Might not work in simulator though as surely AstroTortilla has nothing to capture, analyse and correct via slew and sync.

that's what I do too - although - recently I just PA with EQMOD, slew to my target, frame/focus and then start PHD...

but by using alignmaster I could guide longer

I agree. I actually do the same in the most part now, as I can't be bothered, hehe. Been capturing 15 minute subframes on 367mm focal length and absolutely perfect across the images, without using Alignmaster. The polar scope is very well aligned to the mount axis though so I guess polar alignments are good enough with just EQMod.

I must say I'm less than keen on using AstroTortilla for polar alignment purposes. I polar align using EQMod and then I may correct the polar alignment by using Alignmaster (which is dirt cheap at €19). I use AstroTortilla strictly for plate-solving and it's absolutely fantastic - no complaints whatsoever. 

Just an update to this thread:

Thanks very much for all the helpful replies. I did try pretty much everything mentioned and you know what removed the ring in the end? I had it screwed on a bit too tightly on my optical train and when I unscrewed everything, the ring had got stuck to the OAG (where I like having it stuck to so this isn't a problem!). It's still stuck but hey, it's in a better place now. Mind you, before this happened I just went ahead and ordered a second one of these tiny adapter rings so I could use the OAG on my other telescope as well. Hopefully the ring stays where it is, on the OAG, and that's all there is to it. 

Since then I have battled with some stuck T2 spacer rings though and some have been removed but I remain to unscrew a 6mm one from a 4.5mm one. Going with laser_jock99's recommendation of getting camera filter wrenches, I have bought two sets of these:

http://linuxsat.net/3-UNBREAKABLE-Camera-filter-wrenches-34-mm-to-77-mm-Camera-filter-tools-FREE-SHIPPING-P2997200.aspx

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-UNBREAKABLE-Camera-filter-wrenches-34-mm-to-77-mm-Camera-filter-tools-/190908030021?pt=UK_CamerasPhoto_CameraAccessories_CameraLensesFilters_JN&hash=item2c73015c45

They are the same item but the top link is to the store's own website and the second link is to the store's eBay item listing. The set is for three of these wrenches and using them allow you to deal with 34mm to 77mm rings/filters. This is perfect as it covers everything between 1.25", T2, 2" and larger - every possible telescope accessory size I can think of that can give issues with getting stuck. I got two sets of these wrenches so I can use both hands to turn each in opposite directions. Just reference for anyone else thinking about this!

Hello all! I wasn't sure what forum to post this under so hopefully this one's ok. I've received the Borg 77EDII F4.6 telescope and with it came an adapter for the focuser to accept a T2 connection. On the OAG, I've got a thin adapter ring to go from 2" (M48) to T2. Unfortunately I think I may have over-tightened the connection from the focuser to the OAG and these two adapter rings are pretty tightly fit and I can't separate them!

I've nearly broken my hands trying...

The following is a photograph of the two rings together:

The one highlighted in red is the one that needs removing. It's a thin ring that has an internal and external thread, basically. I can't seem to get enough grip to remove it. Thank you in advance for any tips! I'm sure something similar has happened many a time to many of us!

Just to add to this thread that I have been using the settings proposed in the tutorial for several nights now and using 2x2 binning and a 10 second exposure (with a Luminance filter), I get very fast plate solving times of under one minute. This is on my netbook, too! It has a slow CPU, 2GB RAM and a 64GB SSD. 

Great tutorial. Solved my problem after a few days of frustration not being able to work on images that would work on astrometry.net. Finally figured out it was an extra space (I had "-no -plots" instead of "-no-plots"). Glad to have the -r and --objs options as they cut my solves in half. Some of the syntax on the command lines could be better, but who am I to question the programmer of such a powerful tool. Thanks again, Aaron

I'm glad it helped you out!

Indeed it is a very powerful tool and an excellent piece of work.

Great software, great tutorial and a great thread Pity the options are so critical - I've written plenty of software where there are option strings like this and parsing to allow for extra spaces etc. is relatively easy. I guess the author of AT is concentrating on the difficult bits and has certainly done a good job but the user interface can make all the difference as to whether the software gets used and particularly newbies to get to grips with it quickly.

Yeah. I'm pretty confident however that are time passes and new versions are released, the developers will re-create the user interface to have a menu whereby you can see all available options and set them accordingly. All things considered, that's probably the easiest thing the developers could do in terms of actual programming and user interface design. I bet they are simply concentrating on making it work and so that it does its job well.

Using the (CCD) camera is no problem - it was solving existing images which I had a problem with, but now the problem is "solved".....Thanks very much for the info anyway, I'll try switching off downscaling for when I am using the camera.

Chris

I'm glad you have got it sorted!

I use binning with AT - at least 2x2 and often more with the wide view of lenses. This way I can get solves down to 5-10 seconds.

Me too - 2x2 binning is excellent as it down-scales the image for faster processing and at the same time, makes everything brighter with the same exposure time, picking up more stars and making them more well-defined.

I understand Annti the Finnish developer has a new version in progress as well.

Good to hear. It's certainly a must-have program for those of us controlling the mount via ASCOM.

try using --objs (that's with two minus signs)

My thanks for pointing out this omission. Indeed the objs command is meant to have two minus signs, e.g.: --objs 50

Following reading the developer's recommendations, I have also updated the tutorial to recommend setting the restriction to 100 stars, rather than 50. The developers generally recommend that AstroTortilla is allowed to plate solve with between 100 and 200 stars, recommending you adjust your exposure time and sigma values in order to help with this as well.

i get this error

2013-09-09 12:57:44,608 - astrotortilla - INFO - Solving...

2013-09-09 12:57:46,312 - astrotortilla - INFO - Reading input file 1 of 2: "50"...

2013-09-09 12:57:48,062 - astrotortilla - INFO - ERROR: Image type not recognized: Could not determine file type (does the file exist?): 50

2013-09-09 12:57:48,280 - astrotortilla - INFO - augment-xylist.c:585:backtick Failed to run command: /usr/lib/astrometry/bin/image2pnm.py --sanitized-fits-outfile /tmp/tmp.sanitized.EaKmJ4 --fix-sdss --infile 50 --uncompressed-outfile /tmp/tmp.uncompressed.4VdElZ --outfile /tmp/tmp.ppm.rmQhTa --ppm

2013-09-09 12:57:48,500 - astrotortilla - INFO - ioutils.c:605:run_command_get_outputs Command failed: return value 255

2013-09-09 12:57:48,500 - astrotortilla - INFO - No solution in 3.9s

i use the file open dialog as i use artemis for capture

any ideas ?

I must admit I cannot personally diagnose the source of your problem from this log. The developers may be able to help more specifically though!

The log does seem to make reference to "50". Is that your filename or something? Try filenames without spaces (use underscores _ or dashes - instead, in that case). I doubt this "50" being referred to is from the objs command but if it is, ensure it is set with a double minus: --objs 50

Perhaps remove it to try and see what happens.

i removed the -r and objs and it does at least start the solving but fails to solve the image will have to go over the instal tute again to see if i've done something wrong

i'm using a 200mm lens with my atik and my FOV details are 2.57° x 1.92° can you confirm the indexes i need please

my scale min is 0.96 and scale max 3.90 is this correct ?

Considering your maximum FOV is 2.57° and your minimum FOV is 1.92°, we can say that your maximum FOV plus 50% is 3.90° and then 20% of your minimum is 0.38° (22.8'). You therefore seem to need astrometry index file 4207 for Narrowest level and astrometry index file 4213 for Widest level. Those two and the ones in-between cover your entire FOV amply.

Just as a matter if interest, I recently started using this excellent software. But I couldn't make it work for 2 days - tried changing sigma, took out the space between -r and -objs 50 (big improvement - it started to solve), absolutely nothing worked - error messages, no image found etc. Although I have no idea what it does, I eventually changed "downscaling" to 4. Works a treat now, but why, I don't know. I had previously tried it on a number of very different images (different FOV etc) without success. Now, providing I adjust sigma to get between 30 and 100 objects, I get success nearly every time. Most importantly, using the "go to image" tool, I can easily continue imaging from when the last cloud stopped play. (I have to dismantle the scope and put it away each time....)

Chris

Do you use a CCD camera or a DSLR? If you use a CCD camera, use binning instead of down-scaling. Binning effectively does the same thing to the plate solving image - it down-scales the resolution by the binning amount. However, with binning comes significantly increased CCD sensor sensitivity so you will pick up many more stars and make them all brighter, with the same or even with lower exposure time. This way you get the benefit of down-scaling but with the added plus of binning's increase in CCD sensor sensitivity. If you use a DSLR, this won't be an option. Please note down-scaling makes plate solving faster because the image is effectively halved or quartered in resolution so it is much faster to deal with. With down-scaling though also comes reduced resolution (in terms of picking up stars and details) so use down-scaling with care.

This is what I have tried doing but using CdC, but I get the same messages on the log window

Any clue to what I may be doing wrong?

This is odd and looks to me as if AstroTortilla is struggling to communicate with your camera (or imaging software). However, you say this is supplying an image to AstroTortilla for "Goto Image", right? If that's the case, then this shouldn't be happening. In fact, it looks as if it fails after 0 seconds and that should simply not be the case unless the image is corrupt or cannot be read properly. If it fails, it fails are some time has passed for finding a solution. Maybe something to do with the AstroTortilla installation or astrometry index files? It could warrant a complete reinstall. If you choose to do this, uninstall AstroTortilla, delete its folder and also delete the cygwin folder before proceeding to reinstall from scratch.

A great tutorial and I learned some refinements such as the -r and objs options. Its a really great program, you can home in on stuff like very faint galaxy clusters tht you woudl struggle to do without AT.

Anyone know what the "no plots" option does? I think there is an option somewhere where when it solves on, say M31 AT actually tells you this.

My thanks for your comments! I agree, AstroTortilla is absolutely fantastic and I no longer go out imaging without using it. When software performs plate solving, it identifies objects in the image that are recognisable objects from catalogues (e.g. M31, NGC2204, etc). This can take some time to do and because astrophotographers like to use laptops in the field, some slower than others (e.g. I use a netbook), it can worsen plate solving speed. AstroTortilla therefore has "--no-plots" as a default option to prevent it from wasting time in identifying the objects visible.

This is a great tutorial I used the -r and objs but it kept saying no solution so I removed it and it works again.However I change the downscaling option to 3 and this helps reduce the solve time considerably,not sure how it works though I think it has something to do with rescaling the image

That's interesting. In theory these options are a good idea because they sort the stars in "brightest first" and then of course you restrict how many you want to include. Perhaps you can leave "-r" by itself then, which sorts by "brightest first" but does not restrict how many stars are used. Whatever works best for you! Regarding downscaling, yeah, this is to make the images smaller and quicker to deal with. If you use a CCD camera, you can also just enable 2x2 binning for your plate solving image and this naturally downscales your image by 2, with the added advantage of capturing more stars in less time.

Cheers Gib007,

I've tried the file permissions, resetting them to allow all users full control of files within my capture and cgywin folders, though I'm still getting the same error.

I've even licensed my neb3, though this was long planned

It won't even work on the open file dialogue selected - I did find some similar threads on CN and other forums, which advised re-installing the cgywin folder - though this is also unsuccessful. Guess I'll remove and install from scratch again.

Sorry to hijack your thread, but do appreciate the assistance and again thanks for a great tutorial - it'll be fantastic if I can get this working and sure it's only a matter of time and persistance!

Don't worry, you're not hijacking the thread! That is certainly very odd. It should definitely work if you are asking AstroTortilla to read an image file you provide manually! Indeed it might be a good idea to remove everything - uninstall AstroTortilla and then delete the cygwin folder as well. Re-install from scratch and test. Other than that, all I can advise is perhaps contacting the developers to see if they have specific advice as I have not encountered this issue before, sorry!

Thanks for this, Kayron. Lots of useful information on the settings to use. I can see why I have been getting some majorly long times to plate-solve!

Have you tried using AT polar alignment option? When I have tried using it, I have got some seriously screwy results: http://stargazerslou...riously-screwy/. I wonder if adjusting the settings as you have suggested would improve the PA results (although I can't see why it would, other than speed of processing)?

You're more than welcome! In reply to your question, no, I have not personally used the AstroTortilla polar alignment tool. This is mainly because EQMod's polar alignment routine is excellent and together with an iteration of Alignmaster, produces very good results in my experience. I may give it a try but at this very moment, I'm no authority figure to provide support for it, sorry! Looking at it though, it does not seem to give a real-time indication of the correction process as you turn your mount's altitude and azimuth bolts. For example, when Alignmaster is used, the program purposefully misaligns your second chosen star to the same amount as the polar alignment error, asking you to correctly centre the star but using your mount's bolts. Since you are looking at the star in question through an eyepiece with crosshairs, you can see how you are correctly the polar alignment. Further iterations then show you how much closer you are. AstroTortilla seems to only state how far off you are in each direction, but leaves you to your own devices in order to correct it by just the right amount in each axis.

Does anybody have any sample images which I test my AT installation?

I tried one jpg from another forum but AT could not obtain a solution.

It would be useful to have samples images and settings which are know to work so you play when the sky is not playing.

A way I like to test AstroTortilla at home is using the ASCOM simulator and Stellarium to monitor the telescope's (simulator) position. Go to Tools and Goto image. Here you can select an image file and AstroTortilla will plate solve it and slew the telescope (simulator) to the object(s) in the image. This is how I test at home. Settings in AstroTortilla will obviously alter how effective the plate solving is even for this feature.

Almost, but no cigar - managed to get this installed and configured according to the tutorial, and it seems to be talking ok to the mount and my camera QHY5L-II in Neb3 with the ascom driver. However it fails very quickly on resolving typically between 1-2 secs. Looking at the info log it seems to be a problem with finding the output files, or the file format. Feels like it's 90% there, but not quite:

Info log:

2013-09-04 22:41:12,974 - astrotortilla - INFO - Connecting to camera...

2013-09-04 22:41:12,974 - astrotortilla - INFO - Exposing: 3.00 seconds

2013-09-04 22:41:13,736 - astrotortilla - INFO - Exposing: 3.0 seconds

2013-09-04 22:41:14,226 - astrotortilla - INFO - Exposing: 2.5 seconds

2013-09-04 22:41:14,726 - astrotortilla - INFO - Exposing: 2.0 seconds

2013-09-04 22:41:15,226 - astrotortilla - INFO - Exposing: 1.5 seconds

2013-09-04 22:41:15,726 - astrotortilla - INFO - Exposing: 1.0 seconds

2013-09-04 22:41:16,226 - astrotortilla - INFO - Exposing: 0.5 seconds

2013-09-04 22:41:17,226 - astrotortilla - INFO - Waiting for camera

2013-09-04 22:41:17,447 - astrotortilla - INFO - Reading image from camera

2013-09-04 22:41:17,447 - astrotortilla - INFO - Solving...

2013-09-04 22:41:18,438 - astrotortilla - INFO - Reading input file 1 of 2: "20"...

2013-09-04 22:41:19,040 - astrotortilla - INFO - ERROR: Image type not recognized: Could not determine file type (does the file exist?): 20

2013-09-04 22:41:19,273 - astrotortilla - INFO - ioutils.c:605:run_command_get_outputs Command failed: return value 255

2013-09-04 22:41:19,273 - astrotortilla - INFO - augment-xylist.c:585:backtick Failed to run command: /usr/lib/astrometry/bin/image2pnm.py --sanitized-fits-outfile /tmp/tmp.sanitized.58MzV8 --fix-sdss --infile 20 --uncompressed-outfile /tmp/tmp.uncompressed.6xsYqc --outfile /tmp/tmp.ppm.TFMiSu --ppm

2013-09-04 22:41:19,282 - astrotortilla - INFO - No solution in 1.8s

Config file attached if SGL allows:

AT QHY5L-IIM.txt

I am using the neb3 demo/unregistered, so appreciate that my capture files will have lines through them, which won't help the solver process - but wanted to check it worked prior to buying the license My capture laptop is running Win7 x64.

That is odd indeed! Could it not be a permissions issue that AstroTortilla does not have permission to access the directory where the Nebulosity output is stored? Indeed this is clearly a "cannot read/find the image to plate solve" error rather than a plate solving issue. Mind you, if it helps, I use Nebulosity 3 myself for all my imaging and can guarantee AstroTortila works perfectly with it and plate solves quickly once AstroTortilla is configured as detailed in the tutorial.