Rob_UK_SE

19 minutes ago, Saganite said:

Excellent scope Rob, and you will love it.  I too have the f5.3,  Strehl  0 .987,  PV  wavefront 0.116

1 hour ago, John said:

Congratulations

You have the shorter version of the F/5.3 that I have. Excellent scope !

 

Two very lovely scopes. 😀

It’s interesting that the VX12L appears to be a little more popular. I did wonder whether there might be improved planetary contrast due to its smaller secondary obstruction?

Ultimately, I chose the faster scope to accommodate larger DSOs (based on my current eyepiece selection and spacing) as this may well be my only scope for quite some time. I also liked the idea of a slightly reduced weight (14kg vs 16kg). It might, however, take a little while to get used to the lower height of the focuser when observing near the zenith.

… I need to find and blow the dust off that observing chair too!

Rob

32 minutes ago, JeremyS said:

That is one cracking scope!
Odd about the OO website prices. Are they still wrong then? I don’t suppose they are wrong as in too high 🤣

Two weeks ago the price of a VX12 (Inc. VAT) was showing as £500 less than before. A VX14 was listed at £800 less than before (again inclusive of VAT) and was priced at just over £2200. This came as a shock given that it was only a small amount above the regular price of a 1/10 grade VX12 dob (the VX14 is normally listed at just under £3000). For this reason I wasn’t particularly happy.

The pricing errors were due to the launch of their new website. The prices are now correct and the VX12 with upgrades matches the amount I paid back in March 2021.

I don’t know whether anyone placed orders during that time, but they certainly got a bargain if Orion Optics UK honoured their incorrect prices! 

Rob

1 hour ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

Wow, shes a beauty, but must mean a month of cloud and rain before you can use it 🙂 

Steve

Your not far from the truth about the weather:

… this is the view from our front door right now!

Rob

Sorry, couldn’t resist the terrible clickbait-styled title for this one…

After 5 months of being on the waiting list, fun and games with the pricing and a very long drive to Newcastle under Lyme, I have just received my VX12!

It’s all slightly ironic as just over two weeks ago I was contacting Orion Optics UK about their new website prices and requesting to cancel the order (feeling somewhat disheartened by the VX range’s sudden drop in price). Orion Optics confirmed that there had been a pricing error with their new website which was being addressed this week. They also promised that my scope was nearly ready… which I am delighted to confirm was indeed the case.

For those not familiar with the VX12, it has a 12” primary which I have opted to upgrade to 1/10 grade. It’s also a very fast scope with a focal ratio of f4 and a focal length of 1200mm. f4 should be ideal for lower power / brighter views of large objects such as the veil etc and I am very excited for these. The weight is around 14kg / 30.8lbs. Not that it hugely significant, but it’s also nice to know that the scope was made in the UK (supporting UK manufacturing). 

Although zygo numbers need to be backed up by some time spent at the eyepiece, the strehl score is 0.990, PV wavefront is 0.101 and RMS shows 0.015 … I’ll keep my fingers crossed that the mirror hasn’t been fixed too tightly to the spider and can really deliver great views. One issue is the absence of a paracorr - definitely something I need to purchase ASAP.

For the first time in a decade I have been without any scopes since the start of the new year - having sold both my refractor and dob towards purchasing this scope. My intention was to buy something that would become a permanent resident in the ‘astro gear collection’ and see me through for many many years to come. Initially I ordered a VX14, but having seen the 14” OTA in person yesterday, I am pleased that I amended the order to a VX12. I’m sure the views afforded by the 14” are just breathtaking, but -on reflection- it would have been too big for me to handle which, in turn, would have resulted in less usage. The VX12 is also much lighter than the equivalent sized Chinese optics. I have previously owned (at different times) a Skywatcher 300p Flextube, 12” Meade lightbridge and, until recently, an Explore Scientific 12” Utlralight. The VX12 is much lighter and more easily repositioned than these other 12” dobs. Having now built it up and moved the OTA and rocker around, I am optimistic about this scope’s portability and very much look forward to some quality time spent at the eyepiece again.

As is tradition with these things, the sky is forecast to be riddled with cloud cover for the next few days. I’ll have to keep my fingers crossed for next week along with the new moon. 

Hello everyone,

Before I share my experience with an Orion Optics UK order, I would like to say that this thread is not in any way intend to become a criticism of a manufacturer. It is more to raise awareness of a potential issue I am facing and to assist others who may be in a similar position to myself. I feel that it is important to be honest - therefore I will state that I am not particularly happy about my experience to date with this order, but from this point on I will try to provide a more useful factual account.

A little background, I have been without a scope since the new year, having parted ways with both my 130mm APO refractor and 12” ES dob. The resulting funds were used towards an Orion Optics VX12 dob with a 1/10 mirror. The size, weight and quality of optics make it very much my dream scope and one I had hoped to keep for a very very long time.

The expected delivery date has now elapsed and I am in a cycle of calling back every couple of weeks to see if we are any closer to a finished telescope. I do not yet have an adjusted despatch date or revised estimate of when I should receive the scope. All things consider, this is not unexpected given the current supply challenges and complexities companies are facing with staffing (the impact of team members self-isolating etc.). 

Anyway, to get to the point…

I purchased this telescope for £1833 back in March. Having just looked at the new Orion Optics website I will say that I was ‘surprised’ to see that Orion Optics prices have been reduced…considerably. The same 12” f4 scope with a 1/10 mirror is now £1348. This is only a couple of hundred pounds more than the equivalent Skywatcher model. It is also almost £500 cheaper than the price I have paid - having not yet received the scope (given that it has not yet been made either). If you don’t have an existing order with Orion Optics you may be reading this post with great interest and feeling rather pleased to see a price drop!

Given that the scope is delayed and there is now a significant price difference, it makes me question the quality of the new offering (presumably exactly the same as the one I would be paying £500 extra for?) and can’t help feeling that I am being rather over charged. I have not been offered a refund for the difference in price given the goods are still just in the order stage. I have therefore contacted Orion Optics and requested a refund and explained my reasoning. I am currently awaiting a response to this request.

If, like me, you have an order currently in process my Orion Optics UK it might be worth checking the current / new price against the one you paid too.

Rob

…I might be without a scope for a while longer!

If it helps, I purchased a Pentax XW 30mm about a year ago, but have fairly recently sold it and purchased the cheaper APM 30mm ultra flat (which I consider even better). It was highly recommended at the time, but I secured a good deal on the XW... I wish I’d followed the advice on here and gone for the APM from the start!   

In comparison with the formidable 31mm Tele Vue Nagler, the 31mm has a considerable pincushion distortion, whereas the 30mm APM UFF is much more comfortable when scanning through the Milky Way etc.

The Baader Morpheus would work well alongside your future APM too.

That’s an incredible setup, Garry. Both are fantastic scopes for a lifetime of observing. The mount and tripod aren’t bad either!

17 minutes ago, amaury said:

your three EP set plus a barlow is what I am planning more or less. I'm about to buy the APM Ultraflat field 30mm 70 AFOV . Price scales up rather quick with those premium 80 AFOV eyepieces. I believe that eyepiece is a good balance between optical quality, field of view, exit pupil, eye relief and value.

That’s a very good eyepiece and I’m sure that you would be very happy with it.  It competes very well with offerings that are priced quite a lot higher than the APM.

Hello amaury,

I most frequently observe from our garden which benefits from Bortle 4 skies. For low power views of large objects (m81 and m82 together, the Pleiades, m31, the Veil, Double Cluster etc.)  I can only echo John’s comments that I too prefer using a 21mm eyepiece. This results in an exit pupil of 4.2mm. I also have a 30mm, but find the contrast is less effective from home when compared to the 21mm. By contrast (excluding the terrible pun), when I travel to darker skies I find the larger exit pupil useful, but it is subtle to my eyes at least. The darker skies have a much more dramatic effect (comparing the 21mm at home vs away). I have recently ordered a new scope so it will be interesting to see the impact of the new focal ratio on these eyepieces as I am going from f5 to f4.6.

I think if I was observing in a Bortle 6 area I would probably be aiming for approximately a 3mm exit pupil as my low power option (16mm or 17mm).

Just to complicate matters further, it’s also worth considering the impact of an eyepiece’s light transmission, scatter and the quality of the coatings as they all play a part in the quality of views and contrast achieved too.

Rob

Hi Rob,

Depending on the focal length of a scope, generally, the best views can be achieved up to a 1mm exit pupil. As your scope is f8 and has a focal length of 1200mm, a 1mm exit pupil is achieved when using an 8mm eyepiece. This would produce 150x magnification (1200 / 8 = 150). However, a refractor can work at higher magnifications than this, but the exit pupil continues to reduce in size. If your eyes don’t mind a few ‘floaters’ you can go up to magnifications that result in an exit pupil of 0.5mm which, in your scope’s case, would produce 300x magnification. Most people struggle to go much beyond this as the floaters can be very distracting. However, you will not be improving detail beyond 150x... just making it ‘bigger’, if that makes sense.

I also observe in Bortle 4 skies and near to the South Downs (East Sussex / Birling Gap end). When going from a 4mm to 5mm exit pupil I don’t, personally, perceive any real benefit towards additional nebulosity in objects such as the Veil. However, this will be very dependent on how wide each individual’s eyes can dilate when dark adapted.

Mike’s point about wearing a hood is really good advice. 

Some modern barlows, such as the Baader one, are really great. My preference not to use them is simply the convenience and comfort associated with native focal lengths. 

You can certainly push beyond 200x magnification with an 8” scope, but you sometimes have to be patient as the moments of stable views are less frequent. If you are aiming for a wide spacing between three eyepieces, I would suggest going for three that you can use almost every night. 

5mm exit exit pupils are great for darker skies, but if you have any light pollution where you typically observe you would, in my opinion, be better off with a low power eyepiece that has a 4mm exit pupil (24mm / 50x). Ideally this would be an eyepiece that also has a wider field of view. 4mm would help to improve contrast and still works well with filters such as OIII. Depending on the type of targets you wish to observe, 100x magnification from a 12mm eyepiece is a good workhorse range for a wide variety of DSOs. The 2mm ‘sweet spot’ concept happens to work well for your scope’s focal length (1200mm?), but is not an exact science, so to speak. 

I second Kev’s point about a dedicated third eyepiece and would suggest a 7mm eyepiece which would result in 171x. This would be usable on most evenings and is ideal for globs, planetary nebula, Jupiter, Saturn, etc in an 8” f6 scope.

...You would end up with 50x, 100x and 170x.

A really fantastic and most enjoyable write-up, Luke. Thanks for sharing it. 😀 You must have been out most of the night to bag the Veil too! 

If you do decide to purchase the 14mm XW, they are currently being sold off as clearance on 365astronomy (£190) which is quite a discount. From the few reviews I have read, it seems the amount people that notice field curvature is quite dependent on the scope this eyepiece is paired with.

https://www.365astronomy.com/Pentax-XW-14mm-1.25-inch-Eyepiece.html

... not intending to confuse matters, but have you considered either the 14mm or 12mm Delos? I had the 14D for a time and found it went a little deeper on galaxies than the 13E (I only sold it because their focal lengths were so close). It was also extremely sharp across the entire field of view and very relaxing to use. 

41 minutes ago, John said:

The ES17/92 is indeed quite a bit heavier than the 21E. 1300g vs 1021g

I was using both last night

My counterweight "system" is a magnetic knife strip attached to the lower part of the scope tube and a couple of old iron counter weights that I can place in various positions along it.

 

 

I can see a whole new 100+ page thread of ‘Show us your low-tech counterweight system...’. 😀

Although I fortunately don’t have issues with balancing my current scopes, my old 12” Meade Lightbridge required taxi magnets with dumbbell weights attached.  I tried wrapping an old t shirt around them to minimise the painful ‘clunk’ that would resonate when moving near the zenith. After banging my shins against the weights, many times, I resorted to looping bright yellow guy rope around them to make them particularly unsubtle... it worked for most of the time. 

1 hour ago, Louis D said:

I have a 6" bolt that I screw into a threaded hole on my alt-az mount at 90 degrees to the OTA (on the bottom, rotating up to the front at high elevations).  I then hang a plastic grocery bag filled with a pound to two pounds of metal washers and bolts I had laying around to counteract the backward tilt of heavy eyepieces near zenith.  At lower elevations, it has little to no effect other than to bang into the tripod legs as I rotate in azimuth.  Being a plastic bag, it just moves out of the way.  I do have to dampen the swinging manually when that happens, though.  It works like a charm to prevent my rig from turning turtle near zenith, though.  It just looks literally trashy.

That sounds fantastic, Louis. I would very much like to see a photograph of this in action. Loving the plastic bag, in particular.

If you made the bag out of some sort of fancy material, with a suitably important looking logo, you could patent it and sell for a fortune! No one would know its filled with washers - they could instead be described as ‘aerospace-grade precision CNC’ed narrow cylinders’ with optimum weight balancing properties 😀.

.... quickly running off to the patent office.

6 minutes ago, Dantooine said:

Is it about the same weight as a es17/92 as my setup coped with that one?

It is indeed, in fact, I think the ES17/92 is even heavier than the 21E. You shouldn’t therefore have any issues. However, I was also trying to help you with a legitimate excuse for not buying it 😀.  Perhaps the 21E might be on the cards at some point? Alternatively, I could just lie and tell you that it’s ugly, has rubbish optics and is quite uncomfortable to use? 🤫

I am assuming that you may not be too far from where we are based.  You are welcome to try out mine on an evening’s session, if you don’t mind a bit of travelling?

2 hours ago, Stardaze said:

Happy to report that the XW eye placement seemed absolutely fine last night, it all fell in place? A great steady night I found, it was excellent viewing conditions throughout. If anything, having spent most of the night flitting between 5/8/13, the 20 towards the end didn't work so well for me. Ah well, the winter season is approaching quickly, where I don't have to burn the candle both ends. 

That’s great news. 😀 I’m looking forward to those sociable 6pm skies too (let’s hope they are a little less frequently accompanied by cloud!).

9 hours ago, Dantooine said:

I am beginning to think there is a conspiracy to get me to put a 21E in my collection.
It started a while back with John saying a 21 would sit nicely for me.
 

I thought I’d fobbed him off with my pan 27 satisfaction. I’m not sure it’s been fallen for 🤔

It is a very lovely eyepiece to use and the additional magnification certainly benefits contrast. However, it is also very heavy and can cause all manner of balancing issues when observing around the zenith on a manual alt az mount. As long as your mount can apply some friction to the altitude bearing it should be ok. It’s not so much about balancing the telescope’s lens cells and eyepiece, but an issue of the uneven placement of the weight extending above the scope at the focuser end.

I recall once seeing an ingenious homemade solution bu Stu that added a counterweight on the opposite side of the focuser. I once tried to replicate this, but failed spectacularly!

8 hours ago, Colossal Plossl said:

Ha.  It does look like it was off 😆

 

If you haven’t already used it, it’s worth searching out darker skies using the light pollution map website. You can search for a location and then drop a pin to view the Bortle class value. Lymm is Bortle 6, but it’s not too far from Bortle 5 skies (the lower the Bortle class the darker the sky will be). Bortle 3 And better are only achievable from extremely remote locations.

https://www.lightpollutionmap.info

To ‘fine tune’ your searches, refer to the SQM value (after you have placed a pin). This is the Sky Quality Meter value. In short, the higher value the better!

Duplicate post (ignore)

Have you seen the new Heritage 150p? ... it looks great for grab and go as well for camping etc. At 6” aperture it’s also quite capable!

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/sky-watcher-heritage-150p-flextube-dobsonian-telescope.html

... it is a little more costly though. 🤔

2 hours ago, Martin63 said:

I bought my first "real" telescope two years ago. It's a Orion Skyquest Dob.

My first upgrade was a 16mm Explore Scientific eyepiece, I am happy with it

Now that I know I want to continue this hobby I am willing to spend more money and I am looking to replace the 35mm 2" eyepiece that came with my scope. 

I want to be able to use this eyepiece to scan the sky and help find messier objects.  My location is moderately light polluted.

I was looking at  a TELE VUE 35MM PANOPTIC EYEPIECE.

This cost as much as I paid for my scope, what are your thoughts and any recommendations would be appreciated. 

Thanks!

Given your telescope’s focal ratio is f5.9, the resulting exit pupil from a 35mm Panoptic would (amusingly) also be 5.9mm. This would be ok, but contrast would certainly improve with a slightly smaller exit pupil under general conditions. I like to use a 4mm(ish) exit pupil for low power views with my dob. I also found the eye relief a little too long on the 35mm pan. However, it is easier to hold your eye in the correct position when using Tele Vue’s eyeguard extender too (might just be my eyes though!). 

My recommendations would be to look into either the 30mm APM ultra flat or 30mm Pentax XW (currently very competitively priced by 365 Astronomy) rather than the 35mm pan. Both of these result in an exit pupil of just over 5mm and have 70(ish) degree fields of view. Other low power options include the APM 20mm XWA (100 degrees) and 22mm Nagler (82 degrees). These result in 3.4mm and 3.7mm exit pupils respectively. The APM will show more sky, but the eye relief is a bit tighter. The Nagler is the most expensive of the bunch, but would probably yield the best overall views when used from moderately light polluted skies, in my opinion.

Ditto on the Baader wonder fluid suggestion - it lasts for ages too.

For me, it works best if you spray the cloth and not directly on to the lens. Swipe from one direction to another (lightly) and avoid moving in circles. Try to use a different part of the cloth for each swipe.

22 hours ago, Stardaze said:

 

I've definitely been spoilt with 100 degree vistas. I felt from 200x and greater, that that wouldn't be such an issue for planetary and doubles, it's just going to take some time to get used to. It was nice and sharp, the colour seemed crisp too so no qualms there. M13 looked pretty spectacular, but the 8mm Ethos is the sweet spot for me still with that target. 

I'm not a glasses wearer John, but it felt better twisted almost fully up, but even then I kept just 'blobbing' the front element. Best position seemed to be hovering well above the rubber, however high that was. Getting in close just seemed to black out, odd. Maybe I am used to just getting in close to take in the 100 degree views?

I don’t have the 5mm yet, but find the eye position surprisingly easy to hold with the 10mm and 3.5mm XW. For me, they are more comfortable than the Delos of the same focal lengths. I would recommend bringing the eye cup all the way to its max position and then try to nestle your eye right into it. As the exit pupil gets smaller you do need to hold your eye in just the right place and the nestling method should assist with blackouts. I find an observing chair really helps with this, too, at shorter focal lengths (although I was impressed to hear than John mainly observes standing up ... I wish that I could! 😀). With the combined chair and nestling approach, I am able to use the 3.5mm (0.5mm exit pupil in the refractor) to observe with a surprising amount of comfort compared to other shorter focal length eyepieces.

I very much hope that it does work out for you. If not, do let me know as I was planning to buy that one! 😀