Antares Orion

On 03/06/2023 at 20:40, malc-c said:

I think Alan has really covered things with regards to voltage drop and the headroom 5A has to offer.  Once moving, the steppers will draw around 1.8A, but its the initial current that they draw in order to start moving the mass of the mount and scope attached.  Having a well balanced set up will help reduce that surge, but it can still cause the voltage to drop slightly under the load, and these mounts are quite finicky about voltage drop.

 

Hi malc-c, hi there guys!

Thanks for your attention, yes the explanations were great. Electronic stuff always was a little complicated for my "mechanical" brain!! Lol!!

I am inclined to buy one of this Nobreak PSU

This one is 13,8V 5A, and  can be used connected to a battery, in case you are in some remote location!

The conectors are sealed and the hole package is more portable.

I'm worried about that another model i've posted before, cause its connectors are all exposed... i am not sure if it is safe to use it outdoors.

50 minutes ago, symmetal said:

Glad it's confirmed it's just a power problem.  🙂 The 5A rating of your supply is fine, it's the drop in voltage at the mount when a higher current is drawn which is the issue. It's easy to lose 0.5V or so between the power supply and the mount when drawing a few amps, enough to drop below the minimum mount voltage. A 13.8V supply is recommended, as it will allow quite a bit of voltage drop before the mount fails. A fixed 13.8V supply is probably preferable than a variable voltage one, just to avoid the possibly of changing the voltage during use. If you don't think that'll be an issue then the variable supply is fine. A 5A rating or higher would allow you to power some accessories too.

13.8V supplies are used in the amateur radio field so if you have a shop selling ham radio or CB equipment they will have 13.8V power supplies.

Alan 

Hi symmetal, yeah man... hope the things get back to normal! I was very frustrated... but you all teached me a lot about this voltage troubles.

I found this one. But 30A it's a lot. This way i could not use my anti-shock device, cause it is 10A limited. 

I'm gonna ask the seler if this kind of PSU has his own protection against high voltage peaks, etc...

38 minutes ago, malc-c said:

From my experience HEQ5's perform well on 13.8v regulated supply, but wouldn't recommend anything higher.  They will function at 12v provided the supply can maintain 12v under load.  The supply should be capable of supplying 12v at a constant current draw of 2A, but ideally with a 3-5A rating so that it has the headroom to cope with the initial inrush current as the motors begin to start slewing the mount.

Other possible things to look at are communications.  We often see posts where a mount performs fine from the handset, but when connected to a computer (even a dedicate astro PC) issue occur.  This can be due to USB hubs, EQDIR cables, or even a bandwidth issue due to an imaging camera sending so much data that the PC software times out the mount as it can't respond in a timely way. 

malc-c, thanks for your advice.

Do you think a 13,8V 3A is ideal for the HEQ5?

I do not know if i can find a 13,8V 5A PSU here in my city!

Thanks man!

1 hour ago, symmetal said:

When doing the alignment it starts moving in Dec, and as soon as it tries to move in RA as well, (so more current drawn) it shuts down. Try slewing manually in both axis at the same time and it will shut down too I expect. A better rated supply will solve your problems. 🙂

AstroKeith has just said much the same thing. 

Alan

Symmetal my friend...

Check mate, bro!!!!😉

The mount shut off at the exact moment i pressed the second arrow!!

Now i will test the 12v PSU from the car cigarrete lighter! I let you all know about the the results, my friend.

Again, thank you all very much for your help and support! 

Clear skies and peace of mind for all!

8 minutes ago, AstroKeith said:

Connecting to the car cigarette lighter socket is safe, but does it mean using long cables?

As I rule, I wouldnt try to solve such problems by raising the supply voltage. Two wrongs dont make a right! however a lot of people get away with it. Dont go above 13.8V.

For instance, if the problem is voltage drop when the stepper current steps, then that voltage drop will still occur at any voltage if the same cable and connectors are being used. So your mount will see a supply voltage that isn't steady.

If you have a multimeter it would be interesting to measure the resistance of the power cable that produces the problems. If its an ohm, which is quite likely then the 1 amp spikes from each stepper motor could produce a 2v drop.

The proper solution is short heavy duty cables, with a power supply that has a low internal resistance. A lead acid or lithium battery generally have very low internal resistance.

Hi AstroKeith!

The cable is the 2m one provided from Sky Watcher, if you say it is safe, i am a little more confident... i´ll try it.

The only drawnback is that i live in a 4th floor apartment, with no elevators! Lol

I am going all the way down the stairs with this beefy mount head, in order to test it next to the the car! Lol...

No stress at all! No pain, no gain!! Lol!

Thanks for the tip about the batteries i can use!

7 minutes ago, M40 said:

The flashing indicator gives you a low volt warning so, as has been said, power supply is the usual suspect. Just for your piece of mind, can you borrow a suitable battery from somewhere as an alternative supply?

M40... i am gonna try to power the mount directly from the car lighter using the cigarrete adapter provided with the mount, my last question was  exactly about this possibility... if it is really safe or not. iI do not want to make any mistake and firing my board! After that, i need to learn how to wiring an stationary 12V 5A bbattery in a 2,1mm male plug!

Thanks a lot my friend!

Sorry, one more DUMB question...

Regarding the battery car information... do the guys think it is really safe to connect the mount directly from the car lighter socket, using the cigarrete plug adapter provided with the mount? Any risks involved?

Thanks a lot guys!

36 minutes ago, symmetal said:

When doing the alignment it starts moving in Dec, and as soon as it tries to move in RA as well, (so more current drawn) it shuts down. Try slewing manually in both axis at the same time and it will shut down too I expect. A better rated supply will solve your problems. 🙂

AstroKeith has just said much the same thing. 

Alan

Hi symmetal!

Man, this test is gonna be a "check mate" move!! I will try it right now... hope it works!

Thanks a lot man!

1 hour ago, AstroKeith said:

A possible difference - in your manual mode you seem be slewing in just one axis at a time. The goto and initial alignment modes will slew both motors at the same time. twice the load.

Just because a supply has been good on other equipment, means little on a new mount. Each piece of kit has its own 'characteristics' and while one mount may tolerate a dip, another won't.

Dont rely on the HC readout of voltage - bound to be inaccurate.

The HEQ5 uses stepper motors, and the peak step current will be very high. Your supply may be OK, but the cable and connector pins will all add resistance to the supply feed.

I would say that 90% of these mounts problems are solved by changing supply and/or cables and connectors. Dont assume your supply is good!

Hi, AstroKeith!

Man, your explanation was exactly what i need to know! The both motors moving at the same time, could be drawing the power below 12v!

Do you think is better to buy a 13.8V 5A PsU, or even a "variable" one from 12v/24v 3A in order to avoid future troubles?

My first rig, still in use is  an EQ5/OnStep STM32, it uses step motors as well, and its PSU is a 19V 3,42A!!

As CorneliusVarley stated in his post above, i will try to use a batery car. I actually have a brand new Stationary 12v 7A battery that i have just bought to install in my motorcicle, but i need to make some research on how to wiring it properly to connect in a 2,1mm male pin!

Thanks a lot for the explanation, man! 

34 minutes ago, Cornelius Varley said:

That looks like a classic case of inadequate power to the mount. The "cheap PSU" I assume is an unregulated type and when the mount slews at high speed more amps are drawn than the PSU can supply and it shuts down. The PSU tries to increase the amps but has to reduce the volts below which the mount can operate. This is not unknown. An SGL member was completely adamant that there was nothing wrong with the PSU and there was a problem with the mount, even sending the mount away for checking. The mount was tested for 24hrs and was found to be operating with no problems. The mount was returned and was tried again with the same PSU. The mount failed again. A different PSU was then used and operated as normal. If you can, try to power the mount with a car battery or a better PSU.

Hi Cornelius Varley, thanks for you help, man!

The PSU ia a CCTV stabilized 12V 5A one... and it has been running the ASIAir and the SA GTI during the last 5 months! I´ve bought 2 of them to run the equipments separetely.

I am using the "Rate 5" to slew the mount. 

Tell me something, please... is the amp consunption different when we slew manually trough the HC than when we start the Star Alignment or even the GoTo? 

Did you see the video i sent? Slewing the mount in both axis without issues, and the led not blinking?

Thanks again, all you that are trying to help me guys!!

32 minutes ago, bosun21 said:

Is Arcturus actually visible in your sky at the time you set?

Hi there bosun21... yes, Arcturus was well visible at that time. 

Thanks!

21 minutes ago, Steve Ward said:

If I recall the flashing light denotes low power , probably with the 'scope up top it's a little too much hence the solid light under no load.

Flashing light indicates "approaching low vlotage threshold" .

Hi Steve... thanks for your help. 

My setup is a Vixen 80ED SF... les than 2 pounds! So the rig is not overweighted! Besides that, the issue occurs with no scope or counter weight on the mount, too!

And whats really intriguing... why this trouble do not occur when i am slewing the mount? Just when try the Star Alignment and any random GoTo command!

during this proccess i have been double checked the incoming voltage trough the HC utility menu... 12,7v! Always the same!

Hope it works... this link has a video showing the problem:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qu4yPGdNbBo9KRxr8

This other one, shows the Mount slewing "manually" trough the HC arrows:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/SazR7yqkjjJLdnwT6

13 minutes ago, Steve Ward said:

Easiest way is to stick it on YT then post a link .

Thanks a lot Steve... i will do it right now. When its ok, i post the links here! 

Does a Google Photos link work?

13 minutes ago, Steve Ward said:

Agree regarding a possible power issue.

Be VERY aware though of the polarity of the plug end if you start taking the end off or swapping the ends about to get a better fit.

If you plug it in with +ve and -ve reversed you will fry the board in the mount.

Hi Steve Ward... thanks for your advice. I am not doing any modifications on the plugs, just to avoid this problem of firing up some component!

I know it looks like a Power issue, but if it was the case, the mount woul shut off every time i slewed trough the HC arrows... and it is not happening!

Please, is there a way to upload a video, in order to show you exactly whats happening?

Thank you all mates!

Hi there mates... thanks a lot for you quick reply!

M40 - The red led stays "on" , when i press the Enter button in order to make the Star Alignment, the mount moves just a little, stops moving, the led blinks 3 times, and the mount shuts off. Turns on again and the initializing process on the HC starts again! 

When i just slew the mount trough the Hand Control arrows, both axis move quiet and continuously, and the red led stays "on" all the time!

Woldsman - I am using the same PSU that i use wwith my other mounts and ASIAir... it is a 12V 5A. A  cheap one, but worked great in all sessions i have done!

Swoop 1 - I have tested the 90° adapter plug too, the problem persisted. Now i am using the wired PSU plug again! no success, man!

Hi there, friends. How are you doing?

I have just purchased a HEQ5 Pro Mount from USA. 
As i live in South America, i asked a friend of mine who lives in Orlando to bring me the equipment, and i received it 3 days ago.

When i started to testing it in order to check if the mount was ok, i've found some weird issues during the Star Alignment and GoTo procedures.

The Star Alignment starts, the mount moves a little but sudenly stop moving, shuts off and the Hand Control turns off and enters in the initializing process again.

When i move the mount trough the hand control arrows, everything works well, quiet and easy in both RA and DEC axis.

At first i though it was some issue with the V5 Hand Controler, so i tested it in a Star Adventurer GTI... it was plug and play... the GTI worked like a breeze.

After that, i pluged the hand control in the HEQ5 Pro, powered the mount, start the initializing process, but the same problem happened, again and again.

I really hope you can help me with this issue, i saved money during a lot of time to buy this mount and when i finally get it, this weird issue happens... i am really frustrated and do not know what to do anymore.

I'm in contact with the SW Support and they have been very responsive, but they are not sure yet, about what is happening with my mount.
The first thought was the PSU, but i have told them that i am using the same 12V 5A that i use im my other mounts and the ASIAir.
Changed the PSU just in case, but the problem continues, again and again.

Maybe a Control Panel Board issue where the HC plugs in the RJ45 connector?
But, how the "manual" slewing trough the HC arrows is working without troubles? It is really strange.

As a newbee in this forum, i don't know if i can put a link where i uploaded a video showing the problem.
if i can do this, please let me know.

Thanks in advance for you help! Clear skies for all!

Rob Rodrigues