jpoulette

Big scope with all the trimmings !

I've spent too much time engineering for the military world.

If it's not de-rated 50% (6.5 kg max) - I'm sweating bullets. 😀

Reply from Chen at ZWO:

RE: jpoulette "the "Log" folder and files only appear once you remove the media from the ASIAIR and insert them into another computer."

That is correct. The log folder does not appear in the ASIAIR Image Management window. I think ZWO thinks that it would scare the horses and children.

The folder is in the storage device, and you can either move the device to a computer, or access the device through the Samba server on the ASIAIR through your network.

Check this old thread, for example, on how to access the Samba server

https://bbs.astronomy-imaging-camera.com/d/10629-access-files-stored-on-the-usb-drive-over-network

You can also access the built in eMMC memory on an ASIAIR with a USB-C port. That port looks like an external disk drive when connected to your computer.

Chen

My AM5 has been working very well, so no worries so far ! 😀

So for those interested, I think there's a bug in the ASIAIR firmware for v2.0 10.45.

After the Autorun sequence is complete (and the system is returned to home - but not shut down) the "Log" directory does not show up in the ASIAIR file browser for either the SD or USB medias.

But, if you take the SD or USB (whichever you selected) and plug them into a computer (Win 10) the "Log" directory appears, and it contains the log files for that session.

Puzzling, but at least they are available. 😀

50 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

The big improvement here is that you did not black clip the image. That's to say that you you did not bring the black point in too far. The sky is lighter and the faint arms have been preserved, not clipped out.

Olly

Yes - I'm starting to understand that. This was last night's 3-hour capture (M106). It's amazing how all the little galaxies come alive in the background if you're careful.

Thanks for the feedback! 😀

My 'second' astro image (M101) - taken 09 Apr 2023 (we've had REALLY bad weather for WEEKS)

80 60-sec lights, 40 each of Darks, Flats, and Dark Flats - stacked but unprocessed.

It clearly needs work but I'm very happy with this - and the AM5 is giving me 0.5' tracking pretty consistently. (but I do obsess on level and PA)

(reduced here ~1:10)

My apologies if this has been answered already (I did look around):

I just finished two 3-hour Autorun sessions last night and the night before and I can't fine guide log files, or a "Log" directory anywhere?

The system does not seem to be creating "Log" directories in eMMC, the SD card, or on a USB stick. Am I missing some switch somewhere. I did allow the Autorun to complete before shutting down ASIAIR.

Puzzled ! 😮

32 minutes ago, Dark Raven said:

You can use one power supply with ASIAir and AM5, however official recommendation is that you power the AM5 first and than from AM5, power ASIAir. AM5 has passthrough 5521 DC power socket. That is how I run my setup and it works great.

 

I presently use a Y-cable from a separate 10A AC-DC supply (one leg to the AM5, the other to the ASIAIR+). There's been some debate whether the standard 5A converter can really handle the load of an AM5, ASIAIR, plus accessories (cameras, dew heaters, etc.). I've heard several reports of flaky performance, and some cases of an ASIAIR reboot or shut-down.

The AM5 is rated for 3A max, but I suspect the momentary inrush current (dynamic load) is much higher.  I haven't looked into a battery pack yet, but I hope to take some AM5 current measurements before I do so.

From a beginner, the AM5 has been a great mount so far - good luck ! 😀

OK, my first DSO image ever ! I'm reasonably happy with the first attempt - but you don't really know 'what you don't know' in PixInsight until you start using it. Wow!

Stacked in PixInsight with very little processing (Frankly, I have no clue how to do any meaningful post-processing yet....)

Tracking was good (~1' total pretty much all night, even with a little wind). I spent a ridiculous amount of time on the PA, and got it down to ~10" on both axis.

Started with 60 lights, blinked out 10 of those (shooting stars & planes all over the place), and WBPP kicked out another 8 for some reason. So I was left with:

42 Lights @ 120"

30 Darks

30 Flats

30 Dark-Flats

Now that I have at least one image up I'll modify my signature with my set-up. This is a simple jpeg but I think it shows enough detail to give you an idea if what I'm doing is on or off track.

Comments are encouraged - it's the only way I'm going to figure this out ! 😀

I'm an absolute beginner, but I had my new AM5/ASIAIR out last night for a rare 'couple of hour window' of clear sky. 😀

The goal was to get guiding functioning (enough reading - time for doing).

After a few hours of cool down (it was +21F) I spent 20 minutes (I took my time) getting things level and got the PA down to 1' on each axis. (got the smiley face - but it also told me I was "bicycle slow" )

After that I went to M81, and it guided very nicely at about 0.4-0.5" for about an hour. No data collected but I was very pleased with this progress because it was the only the second time I had attempted guiding.

What surprised me was the numerical auto-focus change; the set-up was in the same place, same temperature, and cool-down time was the same. Not much of a change (maybe 10-12 on the focus scale), but I thought it would be closer.

OK, now that I'm getting a workflow into place -  I wait the classic wait for more clear skies.

Great job - thanks for sharing ! 😀

Progress report (as of 06 Feb 2023):

Since the weather has been so bad (another winter weather advisory tonight) - I switched over to getting a grip on the stacking / processing side.

Completed the first two freebie tutorial videos from Masters of PixInsight, and downloaded the free frame sets they offer. There are three free 45 minute videos that I would highly recommend to beginners who are learning PixInsight. With these I was able to Blink a set of light frames, use the Weighted Batch Pre-Program Script, do a Star Alignment, and Integrate the frames into an image. A good start (for me).

Finally experienced the "amp-glow" phenomena first hand while generating darks - wow, what a nuisance that is. But, I've read that it's perfectly normal with the ASI180MC pro.

I was able to take 3 'sets' (1 set at each detector temperature, 0, -10, and -20C) of darks, flats, and dark-flats. I took 30 @ 120" of each type for each 'set', and then integrated the darks and dark-flats into a master, and calibrated/integrated the flats into a master also (for a total of 9 masters). Basically an exercise, but hopefully I can use them at some point.

I think the more you use PixInsight the less overwhelming it becomes - at least on the stacking, integrating, and calibrating side. I suspect a lot of the "magic" will come from post-processing.

Onward and........upward ! 😎

So far so good. 😎

I've had lots of good advice from members and simply following the threads has been very helpful.

Thank you and keep up the good work.

Jim

3 minutes ago, Lee_P said:

It's sensor temperature. You're using a cooled camera, so this is easy. Don't overthink it  Just tell the ASIAIR to set your sensor to your desired temperature (I always use -10 deg C), then when it's cooled you're good to go.

Hey - I overthink everything ! 😎

So, on the temperature side - it's OK to take lights outside, and other reference frames inside (as long as the camera is cooled to the same temperature) ?

I only ask because we're forecast for plunging temperatures the next few days (-20F / -30°C) tonight with wind chills to -50F. Not ideal for being outside.

Yet another newbie question: 😀

I'm told that all frames, light, dark, flat, & bias" should preferably all be taken "at the same temperature".

Is this ambient or detector temperature? I see the ASIair app has a few temperature options for the main camera and I wonder if you can trick the camera into thinking it's actually outside.

Example:

indoor temperature is 16.5°C, camera (run for an hour) reads 0°C (in ASIair ap) - a Δ of -16.5°C

outdoor temperature is -12°C - can I assume the camera temperature could be scaled to (-12°C + -16.5°C) = -28.5°C ?

If so, I could take dark and flat frames indoors at a camera temp set to -20°C, and use them with images acquired outside at ambients of ~ -5°C with the camera set to 0°C.

It's clearly not ideal (and I can't imagine the ambient not having an effect on the optic train) - but I'm just wondering if it's at all workable.

36 minutes ago, Lee_P said:

Specific advice here for @jpoulette -- one of the things that makes the Askar FRA400 a neat little 'scope is that there are no backfocus requirements; so long as the image is in focus, the backfocus is automatically correct. However, if you use the reducer then be aware that you will need to get your backfocus just right (probably 55mm or thereabouts) otherwise you'll get streaky corner stars. I'm not saying don't use the reducer, but it's just something to be aware of. Speaking personally, I never used a reducer with my Askar FRA400. 

Regarding "fast" optics in general, I try to sidestep the whole issue by treating astrophotography as a marathon rather than a sprint. My previous 'scope (the FRA400) was f5.6, and my current 'scope (Askar 130PHQ) is even slower, at f7.7. But *shrugs* it's fine, I just keep plugging away until I collect enough data. Granted, I might change my mind on this topic if I ever use a speed demon like a RASA 😁

Good advise - thanks. I picked up the reducer mainly because it was available - it seems to be 'out of stock' for quite a while. I need to acquire some data first and then evaluate (see the results with my own eyes), and adjust if necessary. The reducer may work perfectly at some point, given that the object is properly placed in the center of the image.

I've had a little experience with the classic Petzval design - I'm hoping that the inherent sharpness of the center area of the exposure will help, given the objects I'll be looking at. I'm not quite sure what the function of the 5th element in the FRA400 is - but a few images should enlighten me on that. 😀

I have a good 180 degree view centered due north from home - so there are several objects that I've had my eye on for imaging. I'm hoping Stellarium images like this one will give me a decent representation of the stock lens - detector relationship.

I wish I could help, but I took 4 years of French in high school and forgot every bit of it. 😎

Great progress. The learning curve is long, but I suspect once you figure it out - it will pay off.

Looking forward to seeing more ! Keep up the good work. 😎

Progress report (from evening of 31 Jan 2023):

+15F and I'm outside with a freakin' telescope & tablet - I must be nuts.

Anyway - I picked up the lightweight 160mm pier and for a short refractor (like the Askar FRA400) it appears to work perfectly avoiding 'collision troubles'.

The set-up tutorials I've seen all say to pretty much articulate it as much as possible, before going into the field, to ensure there's no collisions or cabling issues. Regardless of the mount or load - I think one does not need to be told this as it seems like common sense to me.

As I'm still getting my sea legs on all this - I did my first focus check & alignment last night. (trial runs and I took me time of course):

Main camera focus took 5 - 3 second Baht exposures and ~ 15' to get the refraction spikes the way I thought were perfect.

On the alignment It took 10 - 3 second exposures and 20' to get it under 1' in both axis. I may have been a little picky - going back and forth a few times. The tracking threads on the mount could have been a finer ball-screw type pitch - but they're not terrible I guess. I suspect the more one does this the easier it will get. I may even consider replacing them at some point.

It was getting cold so I called it a night. All in all very happy with the ASIair interface and the AM5 in general so far. (But, of course, I haven't acquired any images yet....) Next steps will be to tweak the focus on the guider, and then acquire some data.

To be continued.

11 hours ago, rickwayne said:

Fundamental recommendation: Buy and read Bracken's The Deep Sky Imaging Primer, Lodriguss's Catching The Light, or Richards's Making Every Photon Count.

Seriously. It's fulfilling to try stuff but you will  make better images sooner if you equip yourself with the prior-art science and engineering involved, much of which is not intuitive. Or at least  it wasn't to my brain, which is that of a software engineer originally trained as a photojournalist. For example you'll have a really good grasp of the Barlow question (well-explained here, to be sure!). You doubtless are familiar with signal/noise ratios but perhaps not with the sources of noise specific to astrophotographs and how to balance off the techniques for dealing with them. Or how to diagnose guiding and tracking problems. Or...well, read Charlie or Jerry or Richard for many, many more.

I ordered Bracken last week - should be here soon. Thanks! 😀

The learning curve is steep, but not unreasonable. Why, just yesterday I learned the (real) difference between a "dark" and a "bias" frame. It amazes me how many different types of noise have to be compensated for.

But I suspect when you're "collecting photons" (where few exist) - that's life in the big city.

17 hours ago, Lee_P said:

It's great to see you're having a good time already reproducing my Askar FRA400 setup

......................

I recommend a ZWO 2″ Filter Drawer with M48 / M42 connections. (This one, but maybe you want to find a supplier local to you).

Lee - your write up on the FRA400 has been invaluable, and a good start for any absolute beginner .

Filter drawer ? Damn - I want one of those !! 😀

I saw a tutorial where the initial focus was being done with the mask. I though it interesting enough to get an inexpensive mask and give it a try just to understand the principal. I ultimately will use (and compare) the EAF auto-focus routine. it's all good.

I will include a progress report below. Thanks again for your help !

22 hours ago, iantaylor2uk said:

I would use it in equatorial mode rather than alt/az if you plan on taking photos.

Absolutely (alt/az is all I know - EQ will be a whole new thing!) - I will post a progress report below. Thanks! 😀

OK, so the AM5 and pier are here, set-up and it seems to be working fine. (articulation free of cabling interference snags, but have yet to attempt alignment or focus verification for either scope)

My Bahtinov mask and 'flat hoop' are ready to go, as I continue to familiarize myself with the ASIair application.

So, on my journey to understand frame types and purposes - 2 immediate questions:

1. Do all frames (light, dark, flat, & bias) need to be acquired at the same temperature? (think +65F indoors and +10F outside) a 55F swing just seems like a lot to me.

2. You can reiterate the polar 'alignment' until the cows come home, but what would be a preferred error? Some of the videos suggest < 5' on az/alt, which again seems like a lot.

Thank you in advance ! 

Jim

1 hour ago, michael8554 said:

A few observations.

Adding a 2X PowerMate will double the focal length - good for those smaller targets.

But will double the f/ ratio to f/11.2, which will require much longer exposures.

You might be better off just cropping the f/5.7 images.

Why are you putting a 2X Barlow on the guidescope ?

Michael

 

 

Frankly, I just like to experiment - I have a good collection of TV Barlows & Powermates so I thought I'd give them a try (at some point). Surely, lots to learn before messing around with that.

I've also been reading a bit about "pixel scaling" in guiding, and though it might be interesting to see this phenomena in actual practice.

I definitely understand the f-ratio and exposure time relationship (2x Barlow ~ 4x exposure time). I also have the Askar reducer (0.7x, f/3.9) and will probably start with that as well. I'll lose FL but as you suggest it will decrease exposure time quite a bit.

With or without the reducer, cropping images will definitely be a good starting point. 😀

Jim

Very good - thank you !

My wife is a graphic designer - so Photoshop has been around the house here for literally decades. 😀 It may be of use but like I said - we'll take it as it comes for now.

I agree though that acquiring the images is one thing, but getting the most out of them with processing is entirely different !

Jim

11 minutes ago, AstroMuni said:

Welcome to the AP club, Jim. Have you decided on a software for the post processing of the images?

Good question. 😀 Any suggestions - please, be my guest !!

Coming from an engineering background - I'm pretty comfortable with most software products I've come across, so I've looked at several. I suspect I'll start with something like Astro Pixel Processor, while at the same time plowing through the rudiments of PixInsight.

PixInsight appears to have the best long-term bang for the buck, but might demand a longer learning curve to master all the bells and whistles. And there appears to be no lack of those.....

Additionally, I need to understand the limitations of this hardware (Stellarium "image sensor frame" mode and error tracking software may help) and get the basics down on frames and exposures also, how many frames, what type of frames, etc. and then go on to post processing from there. There's no rush - so I plan to meander my way through it picking up as much as I can along the way. Luckily there is a LOT of information right here if one looks closely enough.

Jim