Advice for a newbie on a new telescope?

[JoeyFLL]

Greetings from Florida !

     I have been one of those "let me research on the topic and then buy " kind of guy for all my tech purchases but for telescopes, let's just say that I have been on research mode for 2+ years and still haven't bought my first system!

The reason is simple. I am looking for a system for both, observing with the family on the local dark site and when they get bored, strap my Nikon DSLR to it and start shooting the night sky. As an amateur photographer for 5+ years, it has always been my goal to be able to take shots of nebulae and galaxies !!

Now here are the requirements:

• My realistic budget is under $800 (not including accessories).
• The mount has to be GO-TO EQ or Alt/Az(w wedge) and as nimble as possible as I have a compact car and 2 kids (6,7 year old). Was looking into the iOptron Cube PRO or something similar
• I have no preference in OTA type but my mount requirement will limit my choices here
• I want to be able use it for Observation and Imaging  ( I am aware that Long exposures require a much steadier and therefore out of my budget, EQ mount, so short 30-20 sec exposures I am ok with)
• I would like to be able to use the OTA once I actually get into this and invest on a better, beefier mount

ANY assistance/suggestions/comments would be really appreciated !

Thank you for your time,

Joey

[Langy]

Welcome to SGL Joey.

I'm sure the wise on here will soon offer plenty of advise on what you need. However the main thing as you mention imaging (AP) is all about the mount. As you are spending a lot of time researching get yourself a book called Making Every Photon Count. It will tell you all you need in capturing Deep Space Objects (DSO).

Good luck, I know as soon as you get your first scope you will get bit by the bug and soon will be dipping in the pocket for more, we all do. 

[JoeyFLL]

Indeed I will thanks for the recomendation!

[GuillermoBarrancos]

$800 budget pretty much pushes you towards the second hand market tho.

You comment about investing in a beefier Mount later on, is "exactly" the kind of mistake a lot of people make and keep making.

With DSO imaging (as you are interested in) the mount is the most critical piece of equipment. There is no avoiding it. The book that is recommended here, will immediately point you out on that.

Now, there are People here on the forums that have some success in imaging with motorised GoTo dobsonians. Tho as these are Alt-Az, your exposure times are limited to the latitude you live at, before Earth rotation kicks in. As I see you live in Florida, which is pretty South compared to us here in Northern Europe...this might not be the best option to go sadly.

The recommended minimum for DSO imaging (most galaxies and nebulas sadly need longer exposures than 20-30 Seconds. Especially with an unmodified DSLR) is a HEQ5 Pro or Advanced VX mount.

You could also have a look at the old Celestron CG5-GT Mount, as it´s dropped in price now (and plenty of People put it up for sale these days). It doesn´t have as good gears/motors as the HEQ5 Pro and it´s successor the Advanced VX. Leaving you at the mercy of the Mount and the state of the motors how long exposures you can take, before PE (Periodic Errors / tracking errors) ruins your exposure.

Ofcourse Perfect polar alignment is an absolute must for unguided imaging as well.

Then on to the Scope.  DSO imaging and Visual observation sadly don´t exactly go hand in hand. At least not at an affordable price.

An APO refractor like the 80ED is the "recommended" starter Scope to start with, due to it´s short focal length and being more forgiving.

An 80mm APO refractor like the 80ED will give nice widefield views on a dark site tho! But due to it´s small aperture it´s limited to the brightest objects in the sky and won´t offer very high magnification on planets.  So keep that in mind with your expectations.

Hence, why I said that DSO imaging and Visual observation don´t exactly go hand in hand at a very limited budget.

It´s not my intend to put you off, but for what you want to do, is extremely difficult to get at your projected Budget.

Realistically, with the budget you have, maybe focus on visual observation with the Family for now? Especially if you are completely New to Astronomy, this might be the best way to start out with.

In this case, you could look at a Nice motorized GoTo dobsonian. Something like this:

http://www.telescope.com/Telescopes/Telescopes-with-Free-Shipping/Orion-SkyQuest-XT8g-Computerized-GoTo-Dobsonian-Telescope/pc/-1/c/1/sc/465/p/102019.uts

These are around $1000 new, but should come up second hand quite often and perhaps some shops in US have offers on these from time to time as well.

an 8inch dobsonian will give fantastic views at a dark site and will give both you and your family years of enjoyment. And with a proper adapter you can always try to Connect Your DSLR onto it and experiment and see how long exposures you can take on various "brighter" Objects in the sky. Especially the moon is a nice target to start out with, as it only requires very short exposures. 

[AstroAdam]

One of the worst things to do is go into imaging with a budget that's not enough to get a stable setup. It'll put you off for good when you can't get any decent results. I'd go for a non goto dob with a larger aperture myself, that gives you the impetus to learn the night sky, and how to star-hop to find objects. It'll also give you the biggest aperture for your money. It's how I started, and I'm so glad I did!

[GuillermoBarrancos]

One of the worst things to do is go into imaging with a budget that's not enough to get a stable setup. It'll put you off for good when you can't get any decent results. I'd go for a non goto dob with a larger aperture myself, that gives you the impetus to learn the night sky, and how to star-hop to find objects. It'll also give you the biggest aperture for your money. It's how I started, and I'm so glad I did!

The difference is tho, that he has a family with small kids. Then it´s better to go for a motorised dob that tracks the targets and keep them in view.

[AstroAdam]

Okay - I can see your point there in some ways  I still think that nudging a dob isn't too much of a hassle for the increased aperture (got family with small kids myself...), but it's a tradeoff I suppose.   Both ways are good

[ronin]

Florida, nice. Out of interest which bit?

Concerning your setup I will assume that you intend to do as said and get a beefier mount later - I assume if you get more serious.

The scope is my concern, how good a scope for observing do you want?

As in most aspects of this the bigger the aperture the more that comes apparent.

For general observing, and not to see the origins of the big bang, you will find an 80mm covers most aspects. With the budget and the mount, iOptron seems fine, that would mean an ED 80. Which at this time I cannot see.

Astro-Tech do a 72mm ED would do imaging, just a bit small for observing. Astronomics at $379.

Stellarvue do an 80mm ED but it is $699 so uses most of the budget on the scope alone.

Canadian Telescopes do a WO 71 on the iOptron EQ mount for C$863 which should just about be US$800, but I think 71 or 72mm is just a bit too small. I really would hold out for an 80mm. Other then that you would get it all at once and an EQ as well. One of the US retailers I am sure do the same.

There was a scope mentioned on CN as good, but CN appears to be undergoing change and I cannot therefore find it. It may have been out of the budget as well.

Update:

Optcorp do the Orion ED 80 for $500. it is I think the same as the Skywatcher ED80 here.

It is only the OTA so you would need a diagonal and an eyepiece or two - suggest the Astro-Tech Paradigm's.

[JoeyFLL]

Florida, nice. Out of interest which bit?

Concerning your setup I will assume that you intend to do as said and get a beefier mount later - I assume if you get more serious.

The scope is my concern, how good a scope for observing do you want?

As in most aspects of this the bigger the aperture the more that comes apparent.

For general observing, and not to see the origins of the big bang, you will find an 80mm covers most aspects. With the budget and the mount, iOptron seems fine, that would mean an ED 80. Which at this time I cannot see.

Astro-Tech do a 72mm ED would do imaging, just a bit small for observing. Astronomics at $379.

Stellarvue do an 80mm ED but it is $699 so uses most of the budget on the scope alone.

Canadian Telescopes do a WO 71 on the iOptron EQ mount for C$863 which should just about be US$800, but I think 71 or 72mm is just a bit too small. I really would hold out for an 80mm. Other then that you would get it all at once and an EQ as well. One of the US retailers I am sure do the same.

There was a scope mentioned on CN as good, but CN appears to be undergoing change and I cannot therefore find it. It may have been out of the budget as well.

Update:

Optcorp do the Orion ED 80 for $500. it is I think the same as the Skywatcher ED80 here.

It is only the OTA so you would need a diagonal and an eyepiece or two - suggest the Astro-Tech Paradigm's.

I live about 15 miles from Alligator alley and the Everglades, andabout8 minutes from the Fox Observatory in south Florida. I do have a very nice dark site to go to!

Thanks for the suggestion

[JoeyFLL]

What's the U.S. equivalent of theHEQ5Pro, Orion?

[GuillermoBarrancos]

What's the U.S. equivalent of theHEQ5Pro, Orion?

Yes. And I think it´s this one:

http://www.telescope.com/Mounts-Tripods/GoTo-Mounts-Tripods/Orion-Sirius-EQ-G-Computerized-GoTo-Telescope-Mount/pc/-1/c/2/sc/36/p/24336.uts

[JoeyFLL]

Found this online : https://www.astronomics.com/celestron-6-newtonian-advanced-vx-mount_p20046.aspx

But I can't find information on the performance of that nwet for AP. For $899 its basically a $100 scope. But at least I have a mount!

There two other options. Get the mount for $799 and theAstro-tech ATN6 newt for $299 or get the 6" SCT with the mount for $1,199.

Now its becoming difficult again!!!!

[Langy]

Now its becoming difficult again!!!!

Keep going and you will soon be up to $3000 or more and have everything you need! 

Sorry, it is hard. You have to try and keep your feet on the ground and have a definite limit as to how much you will spend. Obviously getting the best of the mounts will be a priority as that is the part which will cost the most to upgrade later.

If only we could see in the future to what we really will use.

[GuillermoBarrancos]

Found this online : https://www.astronomics.com/celestron-6-newtonian-advanced-vx-mount_p20046.aspx

But I can't find information on the performance of that nwet for AP. For $899 its basically a $100 scope. But at least I have a mount!

There two other options. Get the mount for $799 and theAstro-tech ATN6 newt for $299 or get the 6" SCT with the mount for $1,199.

Now its becoming difficult again!!!!

If you want to do imaging and just starting out. Stick to a fast Newtonian, instead of an SCT. People do very Nice stuff lately with the Skywatcher 130 and 150PDS. It's the cheapest Scope to start out with. After that it's the 80ED APO refractor.

The Advanced VX is a very good Mount. It gets a lot of praise currently and is on the same Level as the HEQ5 Pro.

[JoeyFLL]

The 6inch new here is marketed as an imaging newt https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=MR0ZU4yxDcmS2AWBnYG4Dg&url=https://www.astronomics.com/astro-tech-6-inch-imaging-newtonian-optical-tube_p18868.aspx&cd=1&ved=0CDIQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNGNzkX4f8HlpXIDTGXHxe1vKWbCFQ

My budgets limit is $1,300 (after convincing a very [removed word] off wife) lol

[JoeyFLL]

Im decided on the mount.! Getting the Celestron Advanced VX. now I need to save up for the OTA! 

Tomorrow is star party at sundown so I'll harass someone there on advice as well heh

thanks for the suggestions guys.

[GuillermoBarrancos]

Just make sure, if you go for the newt, that the next thing you need to save up for, is a coma corrector.

Oh and ofcourse don't forget to buy a collimation tool, like a chesire, when buying the newt. (they are cheap) As a fast newt needs very good collimation.

[JoeyFLL]

Thank you