hal9550

30 minutes ago, Bivanus said:

Of course , because the long FL your telescopes have , there is also the other step too - 13mm to 16mm - with something like this because we are in the EU:  https://www.teleskop-express.de/en/telescope-accessories-5/eyepieces-295/eyepieces-1-25-inch-with-big-field-70/ts-optics-1-25-ultra-wide-angle-eyepiece-uwan-16-mm-82-field-of-view-8990  At 159 euro and with decent results ( but not a fast scope EP for certain)

The 17mm Nag is out of production since (I think) end of 2021  😥 SH only , and not often.

Yea the 16mm TS looks very much like the Astrotech UWA, and the Skywatcher Nirvana, which are not well rated at 16- i had this entirely family on my list, at one point. Ernests tests, which iv referenced multiple times, would seem to suggest it isnt the best. I debated this family of brand siblings for a while actually but decided to shelve it - 

49 minutes ago, Bivanus said:

😂 Well now , since you list the ES 18mm 82deg as being in your wanted list , let me ask you what do you think about this comparison:

	FL	ER	D	W
MORPH	17.5mm	23mm	1.25/2"	76°
DELITE	18.2mm	20mm	1.25"	62°
ES	18mm	13mm	2"	82°
NAG	17mm	17mm	2"	82°

That is a TWO INCH eyepiece with a 13mm eye relief.... 

 

Of course thats a notable difference - and from what i have gathered it will be slightly less - perhaps a 3mm subtraction would be more accurate - so roughly 10mm

You are correct thats a serious con AGAINST Explore Scientific in that focal length

Pros

• from what i have seen in the other focal lengths - reported as 16mm ER sop we can assume 13mm actual- thats in the 8.8, 11, and 14
• iv taken out a scope and set it up for a day time test of my Eye Relief tolerance - and my 12.4mm omni is acceptable - and its manufacturing specs for eye-relief - is 8mm - i find this acceptable

I suppose the final pro is

Morpheus 17.5mm  285euro

Delite 18.2              392 euro

ES82 18                  219 euro 

Nagler 16mmT5      519 euro (you mentioned a 17mm, i cant find this  - the 16mm is closest, and its manufacturer stated ER is 10mm - same as the ES82 subtracting 3mm for measure as we said)

Putting it differently i could buy a morph and an ES82 for the price of the nagler so - Delites intrigue me given the reviews of Ortho Sharpness across the range, with 62 Degree AFOV - but less intriguing when considering the price

This is a learning curve for me, and of course, i appreciate the feedback.

Currently its hard for me to argue against the 8.8mm, the 11, and the 14mm in the explore scientific line with aprox 16mm ER (subtracting 3mm for good measure is fair i guess) - I have also added the Omegon Redline 22mm to my list  - its 70 degrees, but gets a hell of a right up from several users.

Between 22 and 14 - im looking at 

• Baader Morpheus 17.5 (17.2) - 72 degree
• ES82 18mm -82 degree
• Omegon Redline 17mm -70 degree
• nothing, and just step down between 22 and 14

I delved deep into eye-relief discussion today, and also set up a day time test of my tolerance so (also explaining to neighbours what i was doing with a 6" Refractor during the day, and why i was looking at trees!)- iv learned a lot - 

OK so im gonna ask another question, about eye relief on the Explore Scientifics. The only Eyepiece i have that is comparable to these is my Meade UWA 5.5mm. In describing the eye relief, i would say its fine. I dont use this eyepiece that often, but this is unrelated to eye relief! It is based on viewing conditions where i live, and the fact i tend to live between 10mm and 30mm - 

When i use the UWA5.5 eye relief has never been an issue. Its a great EP which i was lucky to get in a swap a few years ago (two starguiders and a symmetrical Ortho - the person has a smaller 4" scope, and valued getting moderate but very usable EPs). But suffice it to say, il be keeping this Meade, and wont be seeking to replace it in this 70-82 degree purchase. It is one less focal length for me to worry about. 

When it comes to eye relief 

Great Eye relief: Probably my plossls from about 17mm upward - no issues at all, i regularly use them. In this catagory i would also include my Baader Hyperions, which have excellent ER.

Acceptable Eye relief: 12.4mm Plossls, a 10mm Ultima, my Meade UWA 5.5 - im slightly closer to the lens, but not uncomfortable at all. And to see the full field of the moon using my Meade UWA 5, i actively want to get close - 

Poor but usable Eye relief : - Plossl 10mm, ortho 9, ortho 7 (just about) - rarely use the 7 but they are just about usable, the 10mm more so

Unusable/pointless/junk: plossl 8, 6, 4 -Ortho 5 i find it difficult enough to keep my eye that close to an eyepiece. I find i am even closer than anything above, and way closer than the UWA 5.5- and to add insult to injury, im looking through a tiny hole - i never use these - i got the 5mm ortho in a recent purchase and il keep it, But nothing in this range is usable to me - mostly stuff that came free with scopes - paper weights really, if im honest

Iv asked the same question in a few places, but the main thing im trying to understand, is the negative opinion on the ES82 series eye relief. Despite glowing reports for the 8.8, 11, and 18mm ES82 - there is a solid complaint on eye relief. I guess, without looking through one it is difficult to know - but given my experience above, with eye relief in general - where do you think the ES82s stand for me. does eye relief increase as you move up the focal lengths in this series? 

Thanks in advance, i greatly appreciate all your help

EDIT  - included picture of my 5.5 for consideration - would be curious to know if this is/was ES82 sibling - iv seen varying reports about different Meade UWAs

1 hour ago, cajen2 said:

Me too, though I'd be very surprised if the CUE (=UFF)  was trumped.....I can find no fault with it.

Yea everywhere i have looked it is praised - the honorary morpheus - iv been really trying to grade things on a cost Versus Quality equation - it doesnt really apply here, because the difference in price between the UFF and the Nirvana is about 30 euro - i expect il probably end up with a UFF despite not being 82 degrees

The equation does come into play when comparing ES82s, Morphs, and other EPs - so im still reading!

38 minutes ago, cajen2 said:

Sure....I'll be taking the CUE.

I would love to know how a shootout between these two works out! 

1 hour ago, Louis D said:

I've directly compared the original mushroom top ES82 30mm decloaked against the APM UFF 30mm.  Both are quite flat of field, but the ES82 has slightly more bloated stars across the field.  Also, the ES82 has the Nagler T5 design's ring of fire.  At night, this manifests itself as a chromatic splitting of bright objects in the last 10% to 15% of the field.  Jupiter had red and blue images that separated more and more the closer it got to the field stop.  There is none of this in the UFF.  It is just sharp stars to the edge.

The only reason I ever use the ES82 is due to the wider AFOV and slightly tighter eye relief that combine to produce a pronounced spacewalk effect.  If you always look at the center of the view, you'll never notice the so-so edges.

I would think the Nirvana 28mm would be very similar to the ES82 30mm since both are Nagler T5 clones.  It really depends on your use case whether the Nirvana or UFF is right for you.

I did compare the UFF to my Panoptic 27mm, and I thought the central stars were a tiny bit more pinpoint in the latter, but it was close nonetheless.  However, the tight eye relief and field curvature of the Panoptic are its main negatives that keep me from using it more.

This is where i will undoubtedly display my ignorance! What do you mean by De-Cloaking! Im assuming it has something to do with recessed lens placement which robs us of some eye relief? But i really assumed this was just a fact of life. And when doing my research i tended to deduct some ER from each ES82 eyepiece under consideration!

23 hours ago, Don Pensack said:

Just a note: The details for the 17.5mm turned out to be not true on that spreadsheet.

I suspect that was the original specs from the factory, but 3 prototypes later, the eyepiece turned out to be:

Actual specs:

Focal length 17.2mm

Field stop  21.6mm

Eye relief 19.0mm

Apparent field 72.2°

Hey Don, 

Thanks for all the info, i really appreciate it. I probably sound like a broken record, but i have pages of notes, with eyepieces being added to lists, and then taken off, depending on the feedback I get.

My question is about the Omegon Red Line Eyepieces (AKA Olivon 70s) in both 22mm and 17mm - at 70 Degrees. I have seen fab reports on CN from yourself and others regarding the 22. Given that im leaning strongly toward at least some of the Morpheus line, im contenting myself with the fact that an aprox 70Degree Afov, with excellent eye relief, is going to be worth having. 

I know that the 22, and the 17 are the best in that line of eyepieces - and on the 22mm iv seen nothing but glowing reviews. I wanted to ask you about the 17mm, is it worth considering over the Morpheus 17.5 (17.2) - my think is the specs over lap quite a bit; both in or around 17mm, both with reasonable eye relief, and both being 70 odd degrees - 

The 22mm has jumped on to my list, and barring getting some crazy deals on cut price second hand EPs, i think im just going to buy the 22. So i just wanted to ask RE the 17. I know its possibly heavier (unsure), but beyond that, the only difference is price. I can get the 17 Red line for 150+10pnp, versus 275+10pnp for the morph - its more expensive than the states for the redline, but not by much

Thanks in advance, and thanks to everyone who has replied - really appreciate it! im driving my wife crazy doing this research atm! lol but im off work, and tbh i like reading and learning so

1 hour ago, John said:

I did a comparison between the 28mm Nirvana, the 31mm Nagler and the 30mm Pentax XW a few years back (the 30mm UFF was not available back then):

3bigeps.pdf 448.39 kB · 3 downloads

The ergonomics of the 28mm Nirvana might be it's drawback - the eye cup is almost a face cup due to it's size !

Today I'd strongly consider the 30mm UFF as well on the basis of feedback I've read on it from experienced observers.

Thats a really fantastic review John, thanks for that. As it stands im formulating a list of EPs at various focal lengths - once the list is complete (with back up options) il probably begin acquiring the new ones, and selling my own stuff

8 hours ago, Astronomist said:

How well do you cope with that massive eyecup? I have the new version with a more normal sized non-adjustable eyecup, which is still quite large.

16 hours ago, Don Pensack said:

At f/10, it's essentially perfect right up to the very edge.  

Il tell you what it is folks - probably a touch of mission creep on my part - i was//am aiming to cover 82 degrees up to around the 20mm mark - but perhaps thinking of getting 1 PERHAPS 2 in the 20-30 mark- im just trying to get a feel for what is decent within that range. There is nothing morpheus beyond 17.5 - so candidates would be ES82 at 24mm and 30mm - this 28mm seems like a dark horse which i will keep an eye on (pardon the pun) - i know i can get these from Astroshop under a different brand sibling

But it is mission creep

In terms of eyecup placement Harry, i just took out some of my pieces - i have a wide range of different eyecups, from very large and long (my 2" Kellners)  to none at all, on some of the hyperions, and a silver top - Its not something that would impact a decision - iv never gawked at using an eyepiece due to eyecups - with the barely usable plossls which i really only take out occasionally, i tend to fold it back or temporarily remove it 

Im sorry for all the questions!! But here is yet another question!! 

Older Second Hand Tele Vue Naglers do appear some times in various locations - for example, theres a 16mm Type 2 on ebay at the moment. An impulse buyer would just lunge straight at it for the price. Im wondering are there certain Nagler 'types' to avoid?

My reading for the last few weeks would suggest the older the type (with some focal length conditions), the less eye relief - with kidney beaning being a problem on the original ones (type 1?). Again for me it comes to a trade off between Price and quality. I dont want to buy older second hand (slightly cheaper) TV eyepieces, which, comparatively speaking, could be out performed by modern ES82 equivalents. That would be fruitless as im losing performance, simply for brand and name. I have noticed a few post on CN and elsewhere that would suggest the ES82s do outperform older Naglers. And by out perform, we may be talking about kidney beaning and eye relief. And weight too of course. But i would be curious to get opinions here. 

My gut instinct, at this stage, is that Morpheus fills the gap across the board, given that they are newer, with exceptional eye relief. Its hard to argue against them beyond the initial expense.

2 hours ago, Ratlet said:

The 17.5mm has an impressive eye relief at 23mm and I think folk might just getting too close to the eye lens and getting blackouts.  At least they aren't complaining about Kidney Beaning as this is the other way people interpret it, again with long eye relief.

But even compared to the rest of the range you need your eyeball a fair distance away.  It comes with an extension which I used to use but now I can get away without it now since I can use my bushy eyebrows to feel for the cup.

Seeing that chart brings up a question, which i think i know the answer to, but here goes, just in case.

The Morpheus i assume, behave the exact same way in 2" and 1.25" mode? They dont do a 'hyperion' do they? they arent modular?

The chart just reminded me of my Hyperion experience. The Hyps are lovely, but expensive too. I have a 36, 21, and 13, and i originally intended to buy the full set, possibly down to and including the discontinued 3.5. And this chart played a massive part of it for me: (its my first upload so, hopefully you can see it)

My thought process was:

• The Hyperions being modular presents a rare opportunity to get 4 eyepieces for the price of one.
• By having the set, along with some fine focusing rings,  im covering a huge amount of focal length

• 21, 17.6, 17, 15.5, 14, 13, 10.8, 10, 9.2, 8, 7.1, 6.1, 5, 4.0, 3.5, 3, 2.5, 2.1, 1.8 - Bold Underlined, is the base EP, and the rest of the focal lengths are achievable using the fine Focus Rings

• When removing the rings, and the 1.25" module, i have a wide field 2" eyepiece roughly 20-22mm

Even typing it out, i remember the excitement, the thought process, and the enthusiasm in general.

The reality was, when you begin half dismantling a 150 euro eyepiece, outside in the dark, its a nightmare! Luckily i didnt have any falls, or damage. But I think i did it once, or twice and then quit! I did use them in 2" form which was fine, but that is where i ended the project. The 21mm, and 13mm are lovely but, i was just disappointed when the reality didnt match the theory on paper. Had it worked i may have just stuck to 68 Degree AFOV, as an upper limit

Perhaps some people did follow through, but i dont have the confidence to dismantle eyepieces in the dark!

Anyway, just t confirm the Morpheus are standard, single focal length eyepieces, in both 2", and 1.25"!

Just wondering what you think of the 28? How does it perform? it would be for a fast F10 SCT 

10 minutes ago, bosun21 said:

The classifieds become available after 30 days and a minimum of 25 posts in astronomy related threads I believe. It also used to be 250 posts to place a for sale item. I am unsure wether the later has changed.

well i have a few up elsewhere anyway - but if i have to wait, i just have to wait i guess. Certainly im a bit of a waffler, so!

23 minutes ago, Bivanus said:

🙂 As @Ratlet said "tangentially related" I can confirm my 13mm T6 Nag is a bussy little EP , if by chance you find a good offer as second-hand please don't disconsider it just because is green 

Absolutely - i wouldnt turn away the option of buying second hand Tele Vue. Im not anti TV at all - quite frankly its amazing that they have such a reputation, and im sure its thoroughly deserved. If someone put up a large bunch of Naglers, second hand, i would certainly take a shot at them.

Iv been watching for weeks though and the second hand market is very small in Ireland. Very little action on ebay too,this side of the pond. I would appreciate any links to BuyNSell type sites in europe -

hopefully il have access to the classified section on here soon enough.

Buying New TV Glass is almost entirely out of consideration though - its simply to expensive this side of the atlantic

I will be selling my Baader Hyperions and perhaps some other EPs too so - the proceeds will simply be reinvested in the hobby though. So roll on my 50 posts i guess, and then classifieds will be an option

13 minutes ago, Bivanus said:

Hello Liam and welcome. I started with Plastic-Fantastic 50° graduated to ES 68°/82° currently main line is TV (mostly NAG/PAN with first DeLite as of today) and APM (30mm UFF/3.5mm 100°) with one ES (20mm/68°) and one Lacerta (4mm/82° )

Yes, TV are expensive , only went there because chance and second-hand market. Please note that ES are - by my eye seeing - verry close to TV just not 100% there. Would said chance not happen I would still be happily using them.

As others already mentioned , eyesight is HIGHLY subjective, so my opinion would be to try some second-hands ES and Morpheus ( don't let the 6° difference detter you, you might be plesantly surprised)  Aplso , do try the 30mm UFF in one of it's guises ( APM,TS, Stella Lyra etc) it may be 70° but man does it delliver !!! 

Yea its basically ES82 or Morpheus - i havent seen too much in the way of alternatives so - that is where the decision has to be made. And i agree, i probably do need to simply get hold of one of these and see how they perform. I do really appreciate all the help and advice. In terms of the ES, is there a focal length that is considered Best In Class, which i could aim to get,  in order to try? Furthermore are their focal lengths to avoid? In terms of morpheus, if i go down that route, i would probably aim for 9 and or 12 - 

I feel my 5.5mm UWA Meade is fine in that higher power slot so

6 minutes ago, Elp said:

I had the Morpheus 14mm, I didn't like the orange tint it had due to exit pupil I believe, the actual fov wasn't coloured, just the edges for my use.

Also had the Meade 8.8 UWA 82, I liked that EP a lot, but same issue with ER, the ES was it's replacement.

The XWs are the only ones I've had which I havent felt the need to change.

That is interesting, its probably the first time i have heard that about any morph - supposedly the 14mm is the odd one out - perhaps focal length specific issues - 

Iv heard nothing but praise for Pentax, without a doubt - the price is what is keeping from them. Even limiting myself to 3 focal lengths (which probably would work) id be looking at 1000 odd - and these are 70 degree, as opposed to 82. I know they have 2 focal lengths in the 80+ range but they are well outside my price bracket. i think they are 23 and 16 - wihich kinda leave a gap between 16 and 5 - 

They may just be a bridge too far for my budget -

Similar to my decision on Masuyama, despite wonderful write ups at F10 - they just cost too much at my focal length needs (the masuyama supposedly has awful Eye relief too)

10 minutes ago, cajen2 said:

Hi Liam

All EP comparisons and recommendations are extremely subjective and depend very much on personal taste. I've found the Morpheus range to be by far my favourite in quality v £££, so much so that I've given up even thinking about upgrading them. I have the opportunity of comparing them with a TV Delos 8mm which I own: I much prefer the Morph 6.5 and 9. I find it easier to achieve good eye position with the Morphs and AFOV is wider. I've also compared them to ES 82° items and still prefer the Morphs.

Needless to say, your mileage may vary!

Iv heard nothing but the best RE Morpheus, that is for sure. And the eye-relief seems to be the deciding factor - Il tell you what it is, i tended to acquire EP's over the last decade - and kinda half avoided touching the 82 degree ranges, until i landed the Meade UWA 5.5 in a swap with someone. I wouldnt exactly say i was hooked straight away - but every time i use it, i come away debating getting more 82s, at different less powerful focal lengths. I was chatting on CN last night, and i kinda live between 9 and 30 mm - and spend a lot of time between 10 and 25 - so there is room for some 82 degree fun, for sure. I have the oddest feeling that if i pick up an ES82 - il love it - and then some time later, il have the chance to use a morph - and bang - il be hooked on them. But i have to be conscious of budget of course

I have heard it said the 17.5 mm Morph isnt actually 76 degrees - and i have seen at least two different users complain about black outs - can you comment on this? Blackouts would annoy me a bit - i deal with them on several basic WA EPs that i use, but i content myself with the fact these werent expensive - But the Morphs will obviously cost a bit more

Hi everyone

This is my first post proper, after posting in the welcome page. I dont have a signature yet, but suffice it to say i have 2 8" Meade Schmidts, one is ACF. Both mounted on an LXD75. I also have a Helios 6" F8 Refractor/Achromat 

I have a decent inventory of Narrow to Moderate EPs, but currently only have one 5.5 Meade UWA - which is lovely. My list is on my welcome post, if anyone is interested.

Im going to be in the market for 82 Degree EPs, and i wanted to get peoples thoughts on this. I have posted in other forums, and am really just researching this at present. Having given careful consideration, i have decided not to pursue Tele Vue Naglers, or any of the Tele Vue line. While i fully acknowledge the high quality nature of Tele Vue Eyepieces, i cannot justify the expenditure. They are clearly very good. But compared to Explore Scientific, et al, the price difference is just too great. Im based in Ireland, so the price for TV tends to be double that of the equiv ES, to say nothing of other brands

I do have some Specific questions:

Skywatcher Nirvana

Iv seen conflicting reports on the quality of these, ranging from them being second to only TV at certain focal Lengths - to them really not being in the mix at all compared to Explore scientific and Baader Morpheus. Id be really curious about this communities thoughts on this range. Its certainly the lowest Price, per EP. How would you folks rate them compared to ES82, and Morpheus? And indeed are they comparable by any degree to TV

Explore Scientific 82 Degree

Again i have heard conflicting reports. Some would seem to suggest these as neer peers for TV, while this is vehemently contradicted elsewhere. I know there is an issue with regard to Eye Relief - which may not be that much for me to worry about. I have started using Reading Glasses, but it hasnt caused me great difficulty using tight ER Eps thus far. One thing i have heard many times, is that they perform poorly at some focal lengths, in faster Scopes. As i have 2 F10s, and plans to get a Grab-and-Go Maksutov which would be F12+ - is this something i should be concerned about? Id be curious to know how people rate them in comparison to TeleVue - is there a vast difference? Any tips on focal lengths to look out for would be greatly appreciated. Equally what to avoid!

Baader Morpheus

I know these are gathering a following. They are a good bit more expensive but still (just about) within my price bracket. What do people think RE Price V Quality compared to my other candidates. 

Other options!

If there is another family of EPs that i have not considered, please fire away and let me know. I have heard poor reports on Celestron Luminos, and other brand siblings. That said, im always open to suggestions

My intention is to acquire these over the next 6 months - 1.25 is preferable at certain focal lengths as the Mak i intend to get wont have a 2" focuser - but im aware that above 16mm it tends to be exclusively 2" territory. Im also not particularly fussed on sticking to one family.  A mish mash of different brands is fine. The goal would be to have something focal lenths aproximate to 7, 10-12, 14-18, 20-24 - im aware that focal lengths vary brand to brand but roughly speaking - thats what i am aiming for - im open to getting about 5 or 6 depending on the quality and price - beyond that focal length my Orion Q70s serve me well for lower magnification situations. 

Im aware i dont have access to classifieds yet, but when i do, and as i start to buy, i will be selling some Baader Hyperions, possibly some moderate AFOV 2",  and various other mid range AFOV eyepieces - perhaps swaps, who knows!

Thats really all i can think to say - its great to be here. Look forward to hearing what you folks have to say, and debating the finer points of our hobby! Im not an expert by any means - i am now, and will remain, an enthusiastic novice! 

Sincerely with Thanks

Liam!

Hi everyone, just wanted to say hello!

Great to be a member! 

My current set up is as follows

• Meade LXD75 8" ACF SC
• Helios 6" Refractor 150/1200
• Meade LX10 8" SC
• Meade LXD75 GOTO Motorised Mount

In terms of eyepieces i have 

• Celestron Tawainese Plossls 32/15/10/6/4
• Celestron Chinese Plossls 40/12/25
• Celestron Ultima 30mm
• Celestron Silvertop 45mm
• Celestron Volcano Top Orthos 18/12/7/5
• Celestron Erfle 20mm
• Celestron X-Cel 18mm
• Meade Series 4000 Japanese 32/26/15/12.4/9.7/6.4
• Meade UWA 5.5mm
• Orion Q70 38/32/26
• Baader Hyperion 36AS/21/13
• Omegon 56mm Plossl
• Omegon Kellner 2" 40/32/26
• SVBony Red Line 20/15/9/6
• SVBony Aspheric 23/10
• SVBony 16mm 72 Deg
• Antares Elite 7.5
• Vixen 12.5mm Ortho 

Oddly enough despite all of those, i am currently on the hunt for some 82 Aprox degree EPs, and will probably post about that shortly!

Great to be here, anyone have an questions on my setup please fire away (Pictures are in About Me of Profile, and should be visible now)