Telescopes in Schools

[Ad Astra]

Hi Folks,

A friend on another site posted a question, and I though it was of value, so I'm bringing it over here to see what you folks think. I am posting this in the beginner's forum, because it concerns beginners in the most intimate way - introducing our youngsters to the wonders of the sky. Someone, somewhere did this for every one of us here on SGL; they were patient, welcoming, and invited us to look through their telescope and see Saturn or Orion's nebula for the first time. Even so, I would be willing to bet that very few of us found that first experience in school with a regular teacher. How sad is that!? So I wanted to ask the beginners here, as well as the experienced observers who hang out here and help regularly answer questions and do outreach:

1. Did you have any astronomy education in school when you were younger?

2. Do you know of any astronomy education (with telescopes or binoculars) going on in your local schools today?

Yes, I do teach astronomy (physics and chemistry, too) at high school, middle school and college level. There were no high school astronomy programs at all that I was aware of in California before I wrote the first astronomy class for high school level after teaching it informally and as a club activity for several years - this was in 1989 or so. In my own high school, we had a telescope rusting in a courtyard - but now one was ever allowed to use it. At college when I wanted to take an astronomy class as a part of my physics degree, I had to do it as a 'special session' - essentially a self-guided class of 1, supervised by a tolerant professor.

I have since started astronomy programs in quite a few schools and districts across several counties here in SoCal. But as someone here has said, it really takes someone who has passion to drive the program forward; sadly, administrators and state level education bureaucrats see no need for astronomy or space education. Short sighted of them, I guess!

We have quite a lot of equipment on the three campuses I teach at regularly, I also help coordinate some of the astronomy activities of our local science/math charter school for 6th-8th grade. We try to have weekly observation labs (Mon. - Thurs. only - no Friday nights!) and it is not uncommon for me to have 75-100 people out for lab at a time.

We also do outreach regularly. My students will take equipment out to a local middle or elementary school on request and do a star party for kids, parents, and faculty. My students are the astronmers here - they share their knowledge, operate the scopes, and answer questions. They get to be the experts for the evening, and the realization that they have something of value to teach to another really boosts them up! We (mostly my kids) have been responsible for many teachers getting a small starter scope to share with students and several small school astro clubs starting up.

I will be making an inititive this fall to encourage local middle schools to set up astronomy clubs, with the idea that these "club members" will get to come out and observe with the 'big kids' several times per year.

Hundreds of teachers across the US and Europe use my curriculum now, and schools across a dozen states use my book "Maurice on the Moon" to teach astronomy and space science to middle school kids. (you can find it on Amazon). Many kind folks here on SGL (and on CloudyNights as well) have taken my curriculum materials to their local teacher and said: "I have a scope, you have kids - let's do something great together!" Some others ARE teachers, and have been kind enough to take my materials and incorportate them into their classroom.

There is still loads to do. It's kind of frustrating, really. I know I have a really great product (astronomy education); kids and parents want it, administrators love to show it off as a 'special feature' of their schools - but I have problems getting in touch with those that want it or need it. SGL members must be the real workhorse here - I'm not on your side of the pond, as they say, but I am totally on your side when it comes to helping you improve local astronomy education. Let's face it, with your help, your local science teacher can really beef up astronomy education for the kids - and do something life changing for them. Put them in touch with me, and I'll set them up with curriculum and astro activities. Some require binos or a small scope, but others can be done with the naked eye. These activities are designed to be easy to use, most are 1-page and self-explanatory. Virtually any teacher or club member doing outreach can use them easily. If you want to drop my name to other teachers you may know, they can contact me at the email below.

I guess I could list my equipment set here - let's just say that after 25 years in the biz, I've got plenty, and a wide variety of equipment too. The workhorse instruments are still the 6" dob (12 in service), and 7x50 binos (over 40 pair in service), and the planisphere. Yeah, the CGEM-1100, the Orion 120 ED EON refractor, and the JMI RB-10's (60 x 250mm bins) are the show pieces of the collection, but the basic equipment gets far more use.

People have described me and my quest for better astronomy education as Quixotic, one fellow referred to it as "trying to push wet cement uphill with your bare hands." And at times, I do feel a bit like a salmon swimming upstream, and you might wonder if it all is worth while. Let me just say that I get emails every month that usually begin in the same way:

"Hi Dr. Barth, I don't know if you remember me, but I took your class years ago and now I've decided to buy my first telescope and I wanted to ask you...."

I don't just teach astronomy - I create astronomers!

Dr. Daniel Barth

Associate Prof. Astronomy / Physics

Mt. San Jacinto College

San Jacinto, CA

DBarth@msjc.edu

[RogerTheDodger]

Dan, from here in the UK...

1) No. Just books and an inquisitive mind. I was fortunate that I had two great science teachers, Mr. Fenn and Mr. Hutt who encouraged my interest and kept it going in spite of the inner-city school I went to.

2) Not that I have heard of, more's the pity.

I wish stuff like this had been available when I was young (in the '70's), I would have probably knuckled down and taken higher learning to get that place with Harwell I missed due to one poor grade.

[Peter Drew]

Absolutely no mention of astronomy at school (however, that was a long time ago! )

We used to have regular school visits to the Astronomy Cente but the current fixation on risk assessment, health and safety and security vetting etc has put an end to that as a viable option. We do, however, have children visit "off school" accompanied by their parents.

[brantuk]

Edwin Hubble visited my High School when I was just a wee brat - that's when I first found out that the light from stars has travelled so far and long to get here that they may no longer actually exist any more

[Viv]

Nothing in school - when I was there (which was a long time ago).

My son is 14 - unfortunately no, there are after school club, but for either sports or additional maths / english / homework.

I don't think I've seen adult evening classes either.

[Pug]

1, We did the very basics on the solar system in physics. My 6 yr old has been learning about space last term, probably learnt more than I did at 15!

2, No.

[barkis]

Absolutely no Astronomy in any of the schools I attended either.

It took a Physycs teacher from another school to get me really into astronomy. He introduced me to a local Astro Society, which was a big step forward for me. That guy too had enthusiasm aplenty, and devoted a lot of his time giving talks on the various sciences that astronomy embraces. He finds time to write books on local history, and hill walking. The man's a human dynamo.

Ron.

[Beulah]

1) No

2) No

[Ursa Major]

Im 17,

1. Yes, i can remember lots of space projects that we did about space and the solar system. When Venus transited the sun we all got outside and projected the sun with bins on to paper. We also used solar glasses. It was amazing.

2. Yes, we have a physics teacher who is very passionate about astronomy and it is offered to everyone to take for GCSE.

[Ad Astra]

I find it really interesting that so many of the responses (from many different decades, seemingly) all have the same response.

"I like it! I wanted it! But no one had it available for me!"

So the question becomes two-fold.....

1. Are we going to allow the next generation to suffer from neglect in the same way?

2. If you answer "NO!" to that one, what are YOU willing to do to help me help our your local school??

Of course, we have a long tradition in this country of not tollerating governmental indifference gladly - but then, we come from the same stock, so to speak, don't we! Let's do something to make it better. Think about the person who gave you your first taste of astronomy - isn't it time to pay it forward?

Just thinking.....

Dan

[Orion_the_Hunter]

No. We did have a visit to Jodrell Bank (it was only 10 miles away). Nothing after that though.

Now my kids are at school in France, I'd really doubt they'll be taught astronomy; I'll be teaching them science myself.

[rowan46]

To be frank we barely had books for the basics in our school. it was a school of 2700 it had an honour roll of people who went on to university I noticed that in the 16 years it had been open whilst I was there 42 people went on to university so thats what 42 out of a total of 40500 possible candidates. I hear that its even worse now.

[Ad Astra]

To be frank we barely had books for the basics in our school. it was a school of 2700 it had an honour roll of people who went on to university I noticed that in the 16 years it had been open whilst I was there 42 people went on to university so thats what 42 out of a total of 40500 possible candidates. I hear that its even worse now.

I don't know what else to say. Rowan, is there anything we can do to improve that for the kids who are there now? I've taught in plenty of urban locations where the majority of kids aren't interested in school, much less science, but there have to be more of them that could succeed than 0.1% of the school population! Sometimes it is just wading in and doing the little bit you can that can make the critical difference in a youngster's life.

Dan

[rowan46]

actually maths was never my strong point so its quite possible Ive used the wrong mathematical model hence the sums may be wrong suffice it to say that in 15 years 42 people went to university from a school of over 2700 and none of those went to oxbridge actually doing a different sum makes that 8100 possible school leavers so thats much less calamitous, you see how good my school was?

[AndyUK]

I can recall at the school I went to (in the 70's) that they did have a small refractor telescope and I remember it being used once out on the lawns for sun projection when there was a partial solar eclipse, but it was never introduced during our Physics or Chemistry lessons and even during O and A level physics no mention was ever made of astronomy back then.

However, it's changed now - It's now taught at GCSE "O" level and is also included within a module of the A level syllabus, with one of the lessons now being taught including making your own 100mm reflector...()

There was also an Observatory on the grounds (since the 1920's) but again it wasn't something that was really "advertised" when I was there. I found this link about astronomy at the school up until 1994 (if it's of any interest) 1994JBAA..104...36M Page 36

However, my old school now has a "science park" all of it's own (including its own scanning electron microscope ) - It's VERY impressive, and I REALLY wish I could have afforded to send my daughter there...!

Coming back to modern day, all is not quite as dark as it seems in our area either (Bath, UK) as the enthusiastic Physics teacher at my daughter's school has recently persuaded the "friends of the school" to purchase a DOB so that he can start to teach Astronomy initially as an extra-curricular subject.

Bizarrely enough (considering my lack of experience), he's asked me (via "The Friends") if I can also assist with my kit so that the girls can get to use and understand EQ mounts and also later on the dark art of astrophotography and guiding - Hopefully my own enthusiasm will make up for my lack of experience, and the Physics teacher will be able to field the "tricky" questions!

[BinocularSky]

2. what are YOU willing to do to help me help our your local school??

Much as I have already done. When I was teaching, I ran an astronomy club in school. I currently do astro-outreach (which includes schools plus public events) with my local AS, and I teach adult evening classes. Still room for more, of course.

[lguise]

1 Yes an observatory with an old 8.5inch Refractor and a very keen Physics teacher, Mr Dyson, who helped me pass 'O' level Astronomy in 1975. This in turn helped me in the interviews for Natural Science at Cambridge.

2 Encouraged Bedford School, where I now teach, to build an Observatory and Planetarium for the benefit of the School and local Community. It took several years of fund raising and building in stages as the money came in, but we now have a great facility.We host the local Bedford Astronomical Society, Community groups, run evening classes etc all with out charge.

Linton

[Hobbes]

I was fortunate enough to go to a private school in my youth where the students had built an observatory in the 1950's. Sadly when I was there it was little used although I was a member of the very small astronomy club for a couple of years I seem to remember that the main attraction was that the observatory was a great place to have an illict ciggy!

I was pleased to see though that the school (Ardingly College) has recently installed a 10-inch Meade LX200 SCT with a GPS receiver and several other smaller scopes and that they got Guy Consolmagno to unveil the new kit.

Echoing AndyUK's sentiments I would love to give my children the opportunity of going to a school with this kind of facilities but at the moment unless I have a lottery win it's not going to happen.

[ollypenrice]

Nothing astronomocal in my past or in the school in which I taught.

It is such a lost opportunity because kids are inherently fascinated by space. Astronomy could make a great hook on which to hang much science.

I have also argued for the teaching of History of Science as well as or optionally instead of 'pracitioner science' as taught at the moment. Buy almost any good 'popular science' book (terrible term but never mind) and it will take an historical approach. Why not do likewise in schools? Science is the driving force behind our cultural evolution yet we continue to treat politicians as if they were in the driving seat of history. They are not. You can get all the political history you want at school (I was learning about Colbert's fiscal policy) but I could have been learning about the history of ideas, Galileo, Newton, Einstein...

This arises, I guess, from our ridiculous division of education into 'the science side' and 'the arts side.'

Olly

[nicnac]

the science department in the school i attended was very good

biology, chemistry and physics where all catered for, Alas, no telescope (boo)

i do find it a real shame too

[BinocularSky]

I have also argued for the teaching of History of Science as well as or optionally instead of 'pracitioner science' as taught at the moment. Buy almost any good 'popular science' book (terrible term but never mind) and it will take an historical approach. Why not do likewise in schools?

This is exactly what I do, both when I was teaching in (independent) school and now that I teach evening classes. I find that adults often tell me that they thought they wouldn't like it (they want to learn modern astronomy, not history), but come to realise that it is through following the trains of thought that led us to where we are that they understand why we have the models that we do. (Which, of course, is why I teach this way.)

[FraserClarke]

1) Don't think so. I think there was an informal astronomy club at the school, but I didn't go

2) Yes. We (as a University department) host 2--3 schools a month for open evenings where they get to look through the telescope (assuming it's clear), talk about astronomy/physics and do other activities. It goes down very well and gets very positive feedback. A big key though is tying it somehow to whatever the teachers are trying to focus on that year/term/month.

I'm surprised you say that this been become unviable at the Astronomy Centre Peter -- that's a real shame

Edit: to respond to the thread title -- one of the problems of getting kids looking through telescopes is the clear sky fraction. Here in the UK at least, it's about 20-30% usable. That means that 4 times out of 5, you have to have something else to do!!

[BinocularSky]

That means that 4 times out of 5, you have to have something else to do!!

That was a problem we faced with our school astronomy club. I have a booking to lead some star-gazing (at a camp at a dark site) next month (yes, I know what time twilight is!) -- my fall-back in case of cloud is story-telling, astro-myth-related, of course.

[AWR]

I had no formal astronomy education whilst I was at school (a boarding school in Suffolk) but I did find a 6" Newt in the Physics store room. I borrowed it but I had no idea what I was looking at.

I now teach Physics in an inner London comprehensive. There is a little bit of astronomy in the GCSE syllabus (stellar lifecycles) and we teach the Astrophysics option as part of the IB syllabus in the sixth form. Neither of these courses involves any observing however.

I have mentioned to the powers that be that I would be interested in setting up an astronomy club and I have sixth form students who would be willing to help organise. The Head liked this. I said that I would be willing to loan my 12" dob to the school (I don't get a lot of use from it at home) and the Head liked this too. I mentioned that obviously we would need access to the school site after dark and this did not go down well. Observing in a public park is NOT an option I would wish to pursue.

Every viewing evening would have to be organised as a school trip. THis means paperwork in triplicate submitted to the borough at least two weeks before the event and permission needed from them and from the SLT (Deputy heads etc). If (and obviously this is a big if in this lovely climate of ours) it's cloudy then the whole cycle needs to be repeated.

So far I've taken in my Mak with a white light filter and we've done a bit of solar viewing. The bureaucracy of evening viewing is just proving too much of a headache.

I have also argued for the teaching of History of Science as well as or optionally instead of 'pracitioner science' as taught at the moment.

I wholeheartedly agree! Many of us (in my vast experience of two schools) try to include as much as possible but we are always feeling under the pressure of time too complete the syllabus.

Andrew

[mcro89]

From what i remember there wasn't much astronomy done in school.

I was in high school between 2000 - 2005 and i think we only had two lessons in science that looked at the basics:

Our solar system , names of the planets, how many days it take the earth to go round the sun .etc.etc

This was in year 7 i think so I was 11. As far as i know i think it is the same. It is a shame as i think because of this lack of education not many youngsters look into a career in astronomy.

Mcro