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Eyepiece dilemma again!


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Hi all

I have just sold some books and have just about enough to buy a new 26mm Nagler (£361 in the sale). I'd set my sights on a 27mm Panoptic (£212) as this would fit within my current kit better and I do like the 68 degree field. The Nagler is obviously a lot more expensive. A further spanner in the works is the 22mm Nagler (£280) which has the same field as the 27mm but would make my 22mm Pan redundant.

There's obviously nothing wrong with Panoptics and I love my current ones, but somehow I feel I am missing out on the 82 degree field by getting the 27mm Pan over the 26mm Nag.

I only use these in my 12" dob (focal length 1600mm) and will be using them in my 18" dob (focal length about 2000mm - which keeps moving further and further away as such great offers keep coming up!) and see there are a few options as follows (FOV for 12" and 18" given):

1)

35 Panoptic 1.4 1.1

26 Nagler 1.3 1.0

22 Panoptic 0.95 0.7

13 Ethos 0.8 0.64

new cost to me £361

2)

35 Panoptic 1.4 1.1

27 Panoptic 1.1 0.87

22 Panoptic 0.95 0.7

13 Ethos 0.8 0.64

new cost to me £212

3)

35 Panoptic 1.4 1.1

22 Nagler 1.1 0.89

13 Ethos 0.8 0.64

new cost to me (selling the 22mm Pan) £130

4) (thanks John)

26 Nagler 1.3 1.0

13 Ethos 0.8 0.64

new cost to me (selling the 22mm and 35mm Pan) £0

5) (thanks John)

26 Nagler 1.3 1.0

22 Panoptic 0.95 0.7

13 Ethos 0.8 0.64

new cost to me (selling the 35mm Pan) £170

What would you do and why? My logic is that I want to combat the light pollution at home by having a smaller exit pupil for my widest field eyepiece. Therefore the 35mm Panoptic will really be saved for dark skies and the new purchase will be my main home finder eyepiece. I might even end up selling the 35mm Panoptic (and possibly the 22mm) depending on how it goes.

Cheers!

Shane

Edited by Moonshane
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All I can say Shane is, with my scopes and observing conditions, I've never found eyepieces with focal lengths over 32mm too useful because of the grey background sky they seem to deliver. I've tried quite a lot but always ended up selling them because of this.

If I could fund a 21mm Ethos that would be where I'd go but for now the 31mm Nagler is the one for me though I've been mulling over replacing it with a 26mm Nagler as I'm over 50 now. If I do that I could not see me having much use for my 20mm Nagler as, even now, I find myself stepping from 31mm to 13mm (Ethos) much of the time.

Hope that helps a bit :o

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cheers John

I think you may be right.

Perhaps I should buy the 26mm Nagler and put the 22mm and 35mm Panoptics in their box. If I don't miss them then I can sell then to recoup most of the money I spend on the Nagler.

I know a couple of people have a 26mm and will be at SGL6. Hopefully they'll let me have five minutes with their 26mm for a jaffa cake bribe.

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Hi Shane

I have the 31mm and 20mm Naglers and don't personally feel the need for any eyepiece in between.

So if i were you I would go for option 3

Plus I'm a cheapskate.:o

Regards Steve

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Early days for me, but 13mm Ethos -> 22mm T4 Nagler seems an awfully nice progression. From there I have the 34mm Meade SWA for very wide fields (broadly equivalent to your 35mm Pan in focal length etc., if not in quality :o ).

So i'd give a thumbs up for

3)

35 Panoptic 1.4 1.1

22 Nagler 1.1 0.89

13 Ethos 0.8 0.64

with the expectation that the 35Pan doesn't get a ton of use in the big Dob as the 22T4 covers a lot of targets very well...

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The 35 mm Panoptic is giving you a approximately 7mm exit pupil, which wastes about 50% of all the light, if your own pupils dilate to no more than 5mm. Replacing it with a shorter FL EP such as the Nagler 26 is a very good idea. I have a Paragon 40mm, which is fine with the C8 at F/10 (4mm exit pupil) but the 69 deg FOV is nice, but a bit restrictive when compared to the 22mm Nagler (which is one of my favourite EPs). The Paragon does not do that well in the F/6 APM 80mm, but is useful as a replacement for a finder scope, yielding 5.6 deg FOV. It does clearly lose a lot of the light with its 6.7 mm exit pupil. Thus, replacing the 35 mm Panoptic by a 26 Nagler is a good idea. The 22 is also highly recommended, as it has a very comfortable eye relief (some 4mm more than the ethos). It would be a great direct replacement for the 22 Panoptic. Whether or not you would want both the 22 and the 26 (or 20 and 26) Naglers is another matter.

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Whether or not you would want both the 22 and the 26 (or 20 and 26) Naglers is another matter.

This is something I went through before deciding on the 22T4, as I also have the 13mm Ethos. My conclusion was that it really depends if you're happy with the 26T5 as a 'max TFOV' eyepiece. If so, then 13E -> 26T5 is a great pair and there's no real need for anything in the middle (although the 20T5 is very nice if your budget can stretch to it), but if you do want a longer focal length EP - either for the Dob or another 'scope - then the 22mm Nagler probably makes a nicer progression to very wide fields.

So in my case I wanted to keep my 34mm SWA, and 26T5 ultrawide to a 34mm superwide didn't make a sensible jump in TFOV, while 22 -> 34 worked much better.

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Of course the 34 Panoptic is fine with Moonshanes 6" F/11. With multiple scopes, you often need multiple (overlapping) EP ranges. I must say that in my last deep sky jaunt, I did feel the need for something in between the 40mm Paragon and 22mm Nagler. As the 31 mm Nagler or 30 mm Explore Scientific would be ideal as a max FOV EP for the F/6 scope, I am seriously considering one of those, even though a 28mm might fit in between the 22 and 40 mm EPs better.

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I would save for a little longer then sell the 22 and 35 Pan and buy a 21E to go with your 13E.

Not much help am I :o

That sounds like the logical route to me if you have the money. :(

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The 28mm UWAN/Nirvana is a terrific ultrawide too - i'm trying not to think too hard about it :o

I have the 28 Uwan and it's awesome in every way except the face cup, but I'm used to it now and think it's a wonderful eyepiece.

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Hi Shane

I have the 31mm and 20mm Naglers and don't personally feel the need for any eyepiece in between.

So if i were you I would go for option 3

Plus I'm a cheapskate.:)

Regards Steve

cheers Steve

The 22mm Nagler does fit perfectly between my 13E and my 35P and would have the same field as the 27P too so it's a good EP. My one concern is that there's a couple of reviews referring to the 26N being sharper overall.

Early days for me, but 13mm Ethos -> 22mm T4 Nagler seems an awfully nice progression. From there I have the 34mm Meade SWA for very wide fields (broadly equivalent to your 35mm Pan in focal length etc., if not in quality :) ).

So i'd give a thumbs up for

with the expectation that the 35Pan doesn't get a ton of use in the big Dob as the 22T4 covers a lot of targets very well...

cheers Ben. thinking forward (albeit somewhat far away) my dream 18" scope would have an exit pupil of 5.8mm with the 26N but only 4.8mm with the 22N. my own (measured using my non scientific point the camera at my open pupil) is 5mm approx so the 22N would be better then too.

I would save for a little longer then sell the 22 and 35 Pan and buy a 21E to go with your 13E.

Not much help am I :o

you filthy temptress! :D

The 35 mm Panoptic is giving you a approximately 7mm exit pupil, which wastes about 50% of all the light, if your own pupils dilate to no more than 5mm. Replacing it with a shorter FL EP such as the Nagler 26 is a very good idea. I have a Paragon 40mm, which is fine with the C8 at F/10 (4mm exit pupil) but the 69 deg FOV is nice, but a bit restrictive when compared to the 22mm Nagler (which is one of my favourite EPs). The Paragon does not do that well in the F/6 APM 80mm, but is useful as a replacement for a finder scope, yielding 5.6 deg FOV. It does clearly lose a lot of the light with its 6.7 mm exit pupil. Thus, replacing the 35 mm Panoptic by a 26 Nagler is a good idea. The 22 is also highly recommended, as it has a very comfortable eye relief (some 4mm more than the ethos). It would be a great direct replacement for the 22 Panoptic. Whether or not you would want both the 22 and the 26 (or 20 and 26) Naglers is another matter.

cheers Michael. this all makes sense and with my 5mm pupil the 26mm Nagler fits my current scope perfectly. interestingly something I have been considering today is a paracorr when I get my dream 18" f4.5. this would give an exit pupil of 5.8mm which is not bad, but if I got a paracorr too if funds allow, this would enable me to reduce the exit pupil to 5mm, again smack on to mine - it would also generally improve the view.

This is something I went through before deciding on the 22T4, as I also have the 13mm Ethos. My conclusion was that it really depends if you're happy with the 26T5 as a 'max TFOV' eyepiece. If so, then 13E -> 26T5 is a great pair and there's no real need for anything in the middle (although the 20T5 is very nice if your budget can stretch to it), but if you do want a longer focal length EP - either for the Dob or another 'scope - then the 22mm Nagler probably makes a nicer progression to very wide fields.

So in my case I wanted to keep my 34mm SWA, and 26T5 ultrawide to a 34mm superwide didn't make a sensible jump in TFOV, while 22 -> 34 worked much better.

more great points Ben.

Of course the 34 Panoptic is fine with Moonshanes 6" F/11. With multiple scopes, you often need multiple (overlapping) EP ranges. I must say that in my last deep sky jaunt, I did feel the need for something in between the 40mm Paragon and 22mm Nagler. As the 31 mm Nagler or 30 mm Explore Scientific would be ideal as a max FOV EP for the F/6 scope, I am seriously considering one of those, even though a 28mm might fit in between the 22 and 40 mm EPs better.

I tend to only view planets in the 6" in truth, although the 22P frames the moon beautifully. I really don't want to give up any EPs but needs must!

The 28mm UWAN/Nirvana is a terrific ultrawide too - i'm trying not to think too hard about it :D

if only we could win the lottery!

That sounds like the logical route to me if you have the money. :D

this is the problem really, I could just stretch to it if I sold the 35P and 22P but I do like my options. also I really want to put some money back in my dream scope pot!

I have the 28 Uwan and it's awesome in every way except the face cup, but I'm used to it now and think it's a wonderful eyepiece.

I think I am edging toward the 26mm again. If I do, I'll put the 22P and 35P in their boxes and see if I ever miss them. If not then at least one will be sold and I suspect it's likely to be the 35P. The thing with the 22P is that they are a bit scarcer and also I really like it.

The final option is to buy a paracorr instead of another eyepiece. this would make my 12" f5.3 into a 12" f6.13 so the exit pupils of the 35P would reduce to 5.7mm and the 22P to 3.6mm. Maybe then I'd get improved performance with all my current EPs, a little darker sky and better exit pupils and not have to sell anything........I would also be able to use it with the big dob if this happens and maybe only then sell the 35P and replace with a 26N in due course - and around we go again!

thanks everyone for your time in commenting on this dilemma!

:(

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well, I finally dragged myself out of 'analysis paralysis' and bit the the bullet.......and the winner is........a 26mm T5 Nagler. This is the first expensive eyepiece I have ever bought new. It ended up at about £60 more than a good used one so not too bad really. I am predicting that I'll sell my 35mm Panoptic and if I got £185 for that then the price to swap is 'only' £175.

The 26mm gives me a respectable 1.3 degree field, the same as a 21mm Ethos, and only a touch less than the 35mm Panoptic (1.4) and 31 Nagler (1.5) both of which give too large an exit pupil in my 12" dob; this will be even worse in the 18" f4.5 when this happens in a year or two.

It also means that it makes sense to retain the 22mm Panoptic as this sits well between the 26mm and the 13mm Ethos.

As others have predicted though the 22mm might not get as much use with the 26mm in place now so again this might be on the block too if I tend to go from 26mm Nagler to 13mm Ethos which is certainly possible if not likely. I'd be loathe to sell this though as it's such a great EP.

thanks for the advice everyone and here's hoping it lives up to expectations!

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26mm Nag VERY NICE!!! Shane. I suspect the 22Pan will be on UKB&S soon. This 20% off deal I bet has seen some serious amounts of cash changing hands!!

You will have to give a first light report when you get chance :)

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ha ha - resistance was futile. I managed to sell some more books (it's shocking how much I spent on books in the past) and it was burning a hole in my pocket.

I will be really loathe to sell the 22mm Pan as it's such a lovely eyepiece.

One reason is it's light and frames the moon perfectly in my 6" f11. (ok that's two).

Plus all I can find online is positive praise for it and people saying 'never should have sold it'. The only criticism is that it has 'only' 68 degree field. I have done some comparisons of field size and if I 'ignore' the 100 degree field of the Ethos and 'pretend' it's a 13mm Nagler the field of views run nicely in the 12" dob from 1.3 to 0.9 to 0.6 so I am hopeful I'll use it enough to keep it. the 35mm Panoptic is another matter though and I am fairly sure I'll sell it (and may have a buyer lined up already).

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17T4's too close to the TFOV of the 13mm Ethos. 20T4 spans the gap nicely :p

Is it :( Those 13 ethos are something else!:) Would be going over old ground again Shane but at least you already know how the 20T5 performs in your scope.

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Is it :( Those 13 ethos are something else!:) Would be going over old ground again Shane but at least you already know how the 20T5 performs in your scope.

Just like the 22mm Panoptic! B)

The fields are very similar and the mags too close to change for me. Especially as I'll almost certainly go from 26mm N to 13E anyhow for many things.

I'll see how it goes......;)

FedEx delivered it to the wrong depot :p so delayed a day. should have it before 12 tomorrow.

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Well Shane you eventually bought the 26mm Nagler :) - it is a great EP. If you follow my course I sold my 35mm Panoptic and although I really like my 22mm Panoptic it was not being used so I sold that as well.

I now only use 4 EPs the Nagler Zoom, the 8 and 13 Ethos and the 26mm Nagler.

See you at SGL6

Mark

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Just like the 22mm Panoptic! :p

The fields are very similar and the mags too close to change for me. Especially as I'll almost certainly go from 26mm N to 13E anyhow for many things.

I'll see how it goes......:(

FedEx delivered it to the wrong depot :) so delayed a day. should have it before 12 tomorrow.

You never know, Tom Hanks might personaly bring it for you ;)

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Well Shane you eventually bought the 26mm Nagler :( - it is a great EP. If you follow my course I sold my 35mm Panoptic and although I really like my 22mm Panoptic it was not being used so I sold that as well.

I now only use 4 EPs the Nagler Zoom, the 8 and 13 Ethos and the 26mm Nagler.

See you at SGL6

Mark

I did indeed Mark! :p In the end it was only a bit more than I'd have paid for a good used one so I could not resist. Looking online I could find only praise for the 26N and many people that have it concluding that for anything less than f6 it's probably the best widest field Nagler you can buy.

The 22N comes a close second though but there were a few comments about kidney beaning and sharpness (not many) which made me prefer the 26n.

Re the 22P, you may be right but I do like my options and am pretty sure I'll keep it for now but when it comes to pay for my mirror time, it may well be a casualty.

I am reasonably sure I'll sell the 35P but really want to try it at Lucksall (let's hope we get a chance!) to see if it has any advantages (apart from a little bit more field) over the 26N.

I must admit that having worked so hard to buy these wonderful eyepieces, I really am having a struggle concluding I need to sell them. The trouble is I want to keep them all!:)

Looking forward to meeting you et al at Lucksall.

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