Please put my husband right once and for all

[Zakalwe]

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."

Winston Churchill

[yeti monster]

Let's leave the philosophical wrangling of what is reality and factual at the door please:icon_salut:

As if the links above are facts or not, then I suggest you have a good read and make you own mind up, and back your decision up with sceptical reasoning, the weight of evidence (only using your own personal experience will really limit you to small horizons IYSWIM) and a healthy dose of common-sense.

On the contrary, I feel that my understanding of my own 'reality' has broadened my horizons infinitely. I cannot argue about philosophy, as I know naught of philosophy. I paid no attention at school and took no higher education. Therefore I am in almost total ignorance of such things as scientific reasoning, physics, religion etc. I am, basically, a 'Sun reader', save for my scepticism.

I personally believe *faith* that the Apollo missions were as presented to us, I just have no proof. That is the point I failed to get across, I think.

Perhaps it is this that the Illuminati etc. suffer from.

[MikeWilson]

The "non-moon landing" lobby have a similar mind-set to "creationists". Instead of allowing facts/evidence to lead them to a conclusion, they start with the conclusion and rearrange the facts to suit their own beliefs. There's no point in arguing with them, because they've all got closed minds, and really, they just don't want to know.

Speaking as one who used to be a creationist, I appreciated (friendly) discussion and debate, especially on the internet as it presented me with alternative ideas that I had not previously considered. Needless to say, I was watching from the sidelines

[Zakalwe]

On the contrary, I feel that my understanding of my own 'reality' has broadened my horizons infinitely. I cannot argue about philosophy, as I know naught of philosophy. I paid no attention at school and took no higher education. Therefore I am in almost total ignorance of such things as scientific reasoning, physics, religion etc. I am, basically, a 'Sun reader', save for my scepticism.

I personally believe *faith* that the Apollo missions were as presented to us, I just have no proof. That is the point I failed to get across, I think.

Perhaps it is this that the Illuminati etc. suffer from.

Have a read of "The Demon Haunted World" and "Unweaving The Rainbow", which IMHO are two of the best books that I have ever read. The arguments contained within certainly helped me to understand how to think sceptically and to sift facts from fiction.

Faith has nothing to do with it. The truth is that which is the case.

[tom33pr]

Again I must say this is not so.

As a couple of us here have admitted, we were once moon landing sceptics, but because of our open mindedness, we took to finding out the facts, and realised we were wrong.

So MrsR should in no way give up on her husband.

Sure, it takes open-mindness... Hopefully he has his mind open enough to face the rationale at some point. At the moment (from what his wife says) he seems to be too bald to accept it, so let it be Noone is going to die because of that... The percentage of non-believers (moon landing) is so marginal it doesn't really matter.

[Debostar]

Back at school in 84-85, I remember we had a lecture by a moon astronaut, who is also a staunt evangelist, I forget his name but I think he was on apollo 16....I met the man...

[Zakalwe]

Back at school in 84-85, I remember we had a lecture by a moon astronaut, who is also a staunt evangelist, I forget his name but I think he was on apollo 16....I met the man...

That might have been James Irwin, LMP on Apollo 15

[barkis]

Back at school in 84-85, I remember we had a lecture by a moon astronaut, who is also a staunt evangelist, I forget his name but I think he was on apollo 16....I met the man...

Probably John Young then. I'm not sure Charlie Duke has been to the UK. I could be wrong though.

Ron.

[Debostar]

No, I looked him up, it was Charles Duke....I have his autograph on a book somwhere....

[ronin]

Best answer I saw was:

Do you think that the Russians and Chinese would not have been tracking the Apollo mission's every inch of the way. And that if they had found any evidence of the landings not being true would have kept quiet. They would have spread all the evidence all over the place, and still would.

Also it was probably easier to go then to make it all up at that time.

[Astro_Baby]

Even the Russians by the way, who of course lived in a much more controlled state than the USA couldnt keep the lid on the fact that although they kept saying they werent racing for the moon were in fact building a competitor.

They could keep a lid on it at least as far as the West was concerned for a while but like all these things it leaked eventually.

If even Russia under control of a police state couldnt keep a secret then what are the chances of NASA keeping the lid on a fake moon landing.

Apparently bits of the Russian N1 rocket are still around at Baikonur - I have to admit myself the N1 (although it failed) still looks the business - have a look on Wiki at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N1_(rocket)

I was also disappointed as a child that the NASA stuff just didndt look like Tin Tin on the moon

[Zakalwe]

Apparently bits of the Russian N1 rocket are still around at Baikonur - I have to admit myself the N1 (although it failed) still looks the business - have a look on Wiki at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N1_(rocket)

If you liked that, then you will love this site...the abandoned Buran site.

[Brinders]

As some I am sure are aware, Jodrell Bank has a number of radio telescopes and was able to track both Apollo 11 and the Russian probe Luna 15. The giant MK I (now known as the Lovell Telescope) tracked the Russian mission which was going on at exactly the same time as Apollo, while another telescope (possibly the Mk II) tracked Eagle.

This link gives a fascinating account of how Sir Bernard Lovell and his staff enjoyed a front row seat and listened in to the transmissions of both craft complete with audio recorded at the time:-

Recording of Russia's lunar gatecrash attempt released | Jodrell Bank Centre for Astrophysics

Brinders

[Astro_Baby]

That Buran site is bonkers Actually me and OH are thinking of taking a trip to Chernobyl - they are doing tours of the area and we figure we are so old that we arent really at much risk. We thought it might be something different to do

[John]

...I was also disappointed as a child that the NASA stuff just didndt look like Tin Tin on the moon

The Mercury-Redstone rockets did look just a little bit Tintinesque :

[Paliadon]

If someone really doesn't want to believe in it, they won't. Even if you do have a photo they will claim it's a fake:

BAH AHA HA HA HA HAAAAAA

BAZINGA!

[Astro_Baby]

They dont have the big fins at the back with the boosters on

NASA really should have employed someone with a bit of style to design this stuff - not the Germans - they may be efficient but they lack the panache. Should have gone with style. It should have looked like a Cadillac not a Volkwagen

[yeti monster]

They dont have the big fins at the back with the boosters on

NASA really should have employed someone with a bit of style to design this stuff - not the Germans - they may be efficient but they lack the panache. Should have gone with style. It should have looked like a Cadillac not a Volkwagen

I think they had the best looking (groung based) equipment during those 'minor excursions' of the 20th century. I'm more glad that they weren't quite so efficient enough at using it!

[Pakmoto]

BAH AHA HA HA HA HAAAAAA

BAZINGA!

Sheldon Cooper I presume?

Best show on TV

[Zakalwe]

The Mercury-Redstone rockets did look just a little bit Tintinesque :

I was lucky enough to visit Kennedy Space Centre a wee while ago, and I made sure to tour the old launch sites. The Mercury blockhouse was about 10 metres from the launchpad, and was protected by thick concrete walls. The windows were made of multiple sheets of glass and are about 250mm thick.

1959s technology!

In comparison, the Apollo blockhouse was situated nearly 5Km away from the launchpad, and was protected by walls 10 metres thick.

The flame deflectors (which deflected the exhaust from the rocket engines through 90 degrees) on the Redstone rockets stood 45cm high. The flame deflectors for the Saturn5 booster stood 12m high.

So, yes, in comparison to the lunar boosters, Redstone WAS a toy!

[Doug]

Hello Mrs R

If you get Sky at Night Magazine, in a few months there will show you a program on DVD from a few months back and Sir Patrick points out bases of the Appolo 11 on the moon so look out for it , and make him buy you that 30" scope;)

Doug

Essex

[Dazzio]

When I was younger, I never doubted the fact that we went to the moon, just that the pictures where faked. I also believed that Area 51 (Dreamland) has alien craft there. This was when I was about 12-ish. Later on I went to college done a course in engineering and realised the errors of my ways. However despite what the US gov may say, Area 51 doesn't exist, (I think they may have changed their stance on admitting it). But I believe it's nothing more than a testing ground for the various "black project" planes, for example the ones that where built at the Lockheed Skunk Works. The SR-71 Blackbird and F-117 Nighthawk being their most famous examples.

Now that I think about it, I did see a picture a few years ago with the lunar rover in it. It's tracks in the surface of the moon where weird. Now I'm not saying it was faked before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm not even sure if it was a real NASA picture, just that the tracks the rover had left looked very odd (anyone who drives will see where I'm coming from) I'm sure there was an logical explanation for it, like gravity or 4 wheel steer. I just never looked into it tbh. Although saying that I did hear a theory, which I don't believe, that the Russians landed on the moon first, but they thought it had air on it, so the cosmonauts took off their helmets and died. Anyone heard that one before?

I suppose if you really wanted to be pedantic and the theory about a planet crashing into the earth to make the moon is 100% correct. You could argue that we have defiantly been to the moon, as the earth and moon are made from the same stuff.

Dazz

[JamesC]

Believe it or not I had an open mind on this subject up to a few years ago. It might seem odd for someone that has been interested in astronomy since about 15 but I've never read about the space program. About the sum total of my knowledge up to a few years ago was some dreadful footage of someone allegedly descending a ladder I saw at primary school. I guess I'd also seen shots of rockets and photos and things, but nothing that made too much of an impression. When people started talking about conspiracy theories the idea that this kind of evidence could be faked did not seem out the question to me at the time. Then a few years ago, for whatever reason, I got a BBC documentary on the space race (I think it was called Space Race). It put the space race into the historical context of WWII, the cold war and ICBMs - and had good coverage of the soviet space programme too. I then watched the American Space Odyssey videos and it was just obvious that a programme of that scale could not be faked. Once you've built a behemoth like the Saturn V that could heft huge loads into space, you're a long way to going to the moon. Thousands of people watched these things take off. I liked watching the videos from a different era - people puffing away on cigarettes and bashing on typewriters! I really enjoyed watching these videos as I think they capture some of the excitement of these missions. Wow! They actually went to the moon. (I'm still yet to read a book about the space programme!) My advice - get some DVDs and watch them with your husband.

[Talitha]

When someone tells me to prove that we went to the Moon, i don't argue or try to convince them.

I calmly challenge them to prove to me that we didn't go.

After placing them on the defensive, i continually remind them that eveything they're saying is merely their own personal opinion, and will remain so until they prove what they're saying.

They can't prove anything of course, and it's amazing how long some of them try. Best of all, i actually see the light of recognition in their eyes when they finally realize that i've been toying with their ignorance by using their own tactics against them.

It's great fun, give it a go sometime.

[StephenK]

Thats brilliant