GO-TO Scopes?

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Quite so. I now use a webcam for imaging planets, and get better results on bad nights than I ever did with an SLR on good ones. Don't tell me that is cheating.

In the case of goto system, one might argue that you cannot perhaps claim to have found a particular object, as someone or something found it for you. However, you have certainly seen and observed it, but this distinction is perhaps rather futile.

[yesyes]

As for learning to navigate the heavens vs. go-to...

Most of the time I still take the time to see where the scope is pointing after go-to has slewed to the object. I'd still say I learn my way around the sky a bit this way.

[Bigdaddyjeff]

I agree yesyes...i actually think i'd learn more with a goto

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I agree yesyes...i actually think i'd learn more with a goto

Then go for it

BTW, the standard finder scope on many cheaper scopes are not that good, and make finding things really hard. On my old scope a built a 10x50 finder by stripping apart a broken pair of binoculars, that made ALL the difference, as I could actually see M81 and M82 through the finder. The little 6x30 that came with my C8 was much less useful than my home grown one. I now have a 16x70 with 4.4 deg FOV. Star hopping is much easier now.

[chrisshillito]

In the case of goto system, one might argue that you cannot perhaps claim to have found a particular object, as someone or something found it for you. However, you have certainly seen and observed it, but this distinction is perhaps rather futile.

By that reasoning it would seem to me that only if you stumble upon on an object without knowing it was there can claim to have found it. If you star hop, use setting circles or use a goto makes no difference, you are simply attempting to revisit a position that others have previously cataloged for you.

Of course if the difficulty of the challenge is a key factor then folks could always maximise their potential satisfaction by only undertaking blindfolded "one shot" manual slews

Chris.

[malc-c]

I've had both. My first scopes were manual and I spent hours looking for specific objects the hard way, often failing along the way. I found this incredibly frustrating. Now I have a good accurate goto scope I am having an absolute ball.

I have to agree with the above. My last venture into scope ownership became frustrating in the same way. OK Goto scopes were only found on very expensive scopes 25 years ago, and probably out of my price range then, but with goto scopes being so affordable now is why I went down that route. I like the idea of having the scope find the object and thus it's teaching me where it is in the night sky, helping me learn the night sky in the process.

It's also facinating to watch people's expression (especially children) when having selected an object the scope slews round under computer control and finds the object in the field of view... .

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

By that reasoning it would seem to me that only if you stumble upon on an object without knowing it was there can claim to have found it. If you star hop, use setting circles or use a goto makes no difference, you are simply attempting to revisit a position that others have previously cataloged for you.

Of course if the difficulty of the challenge is a key factor then folks could always maximise their potential satisfaction by only undertaking blindfolded "one shot" manual slews

Chris.

Fair enough, and, as I said, the distinction is rather futile. I do however see the point made by the guys at the Messier Club, but only because a plaque or award pin is involved.

Regarding just finding objects at coordinates previously determined by others: Many objects in Messier's list were actually first found by Pierre Méchain. Even in those days astronomers shared observations .

[yeti monster]

I've recently upgraded from a homebulid Dob mount to an Autostar mount. The idea behind it is to afford motorised tracking for my webcam imaging, as manual tracking is tedious to say the least.

Thus far I am very please with how it runs. I'm looking forward to when I can also use the 'goto' functions and take a leisurely tour of the skies, as opposed to the star hopping and squinting at star charts and guesstimating and more star hopping and more squinting at charts and then the clouds roll in.

I'll be retaining the Dob mount for when I fancy a quick scoot about the skies in a rather random fashion as I have really enjoyed a good many sessions where things have been found easily, and I have become quite familar with the constellations, or at least was until this months and months of drab, featureless, grey cloudage drifted in.

Each method has it's merits I say, perched securely on my fence...

[Bigdaddyjeff]

Then go for it

BTW, the standard finder scope on many cheaper scopes are not that good, and make finding things really hard. On my old scope a built a 10x50 finder by stripping apart a broken pair of binoculars, that made ALL the difference, as I could actually see M81 and M82 through the finder. The little 6x30 that came with my C8 was much less useful than my home grown one. I now have a 16x70 with 4.4 deg FOV. Star hopping is much easier now.

Great mod idea Michael

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Great mod idea Michael

More details here

http://stargazerslounge.com/equipment-discussion/123929-16x70mm-finder-prostar-22mm-erfle-illuminated-cross-hair.html

[Bigdaddyjeff]

thanks squire

[smudgeball]

For me, a goto scope allows me to setup and observe in a short space of time.

The learning will come over time, but for now I just like to use features like the tour button and just see what's up there.

As I learn more then I'll start planning my evenings viewing.

Until then I'll just go to.

Neil

[philj]

Are setting circles cheating, is your star atlas cheating?

No, its already been said its a means to an end and anything that makes finding objects quicker and easier is a benefit because of the lack of clear sky time we have.

There was no such thing as goto when I was a lad so I learnt the skies and when I did eventually get a scope I star hopped.

My 1st goto mount was a blessing, all of a sudden I had more time for looking at the objects.

However I do enjoy taking a non goto (altaz or eq) manual mount out to keep my hand in so to speak.

Philj

[swamp thing]

What exactly is someone with a goto scope supposed to be "cheating" at?

Can you "cheat" at astronomy?

How?

Is there a winner out of, who finds things quickest?

Will somebody get a prize if they find more objects in a night?

Am i somehow caught up in a competition that i didn't even know i was in?

Am i losing this competition?

Am i winning:)

Puzzled Steve

[Nexus 6]

Best to not play cards with GO To owners, bunch of cheats

[brantuk]

For observing I'm a firm believer in learning the skies - then it doesn't matter which you use. For imaging though I reckon a goto and tracking must be more time efficient what with having to set up cameras and other stuff.

[malc-c]

Best to not play cards with GO To owners, bunch of cheats

Ouch !

[Nexus 6]

Ouch !

don't take that literally, just making light of the thread, happens all the time then this topic pops up

[smudgeball]

bunch of cheats

Right that's it...I'm taking the batteries out of my scope right now

[metz]

GO-TO scopes teach newbies and children the basics and then if they want to take it further with the hobby then thats great and then once they know there way round the nite sky might go for a bigger scope as the years roll on

[MorningMajor]

I often find, particularly at the end of a session, I will just go mooching around the sky using the arrow keys, ignoring the goto, just to see what is there.

100% agree - that's exactly what i do - I think that Goto is an aid which can be used when you want it but as long as you don't become slavish to it you still get to "learn" the skies the natural way - often after i've "gone to" a certain site I'll have a go at finding it another night on my own, unaided as it were

But at the end of the day who cares? this is a hobby for enjoyment and I reckon you should enjoy it any way you like!

[Astro_Baby]

I started out with high hopes of learning the sky but with the UK weather its hopeless. So far I have had this year virtually 45 days of cloud bar one night.

Learning the sky under those conditions would be like trying to learn the works of shakespeare if you could only look at the book for two hours a month.

When you add in other commitments the amont of time you may have to spend can be reduced to a very tiny number.

Endless sessions finding nothing will put a lot of people off.

As to the aperture argument 6" of aperture on a target you can find via GoTo will always trump 18" on a target that you cant find without GoTo.

The "learn the sky" view is ok if ou have tons kf time, live in a dark sky area but for an urban astronomer with limited time its not realistic.

In the end I bit the bullet, ate humble pie and bought a GoTo upgrade.

[great_bear]

I agree yesyes...i actually think i'd learn more with a goto

I certainly did - but then I'm driving my GoTo with an inexpensive netBook rather than a hand-controller, so you see the sky "live" so to speak, in Stellarium whilst outside looking at the real thing.

[smudgeball]

Hang on....I've just put the batteries back in cos it's a goto scope

[Astro_Baby]

Actually I think anyone who uses anything more than a scope the same as Galileo and does it using star charts or similar aids is cheating.

You should all be ashemed of yourselves for cheating by using star charts and other such inventions of Satan you should all attempt to recreate Flamsteeds work from scratch.

Everyone should wear hair shirts and underpants and grind their glass from scratch

That would teach you all a lesson.

A sound spanking and sent to bed early without any supper for having the cheek to use anything invented after 1700 would also be a good idea