Afew questions about autoguiding

[LunarLight]

Hey guys

Im posting this here as I got no replies in equipment help, so im hoping in the imaging section someone can help

So I have been using my scope for a while now and have been practising with astroimaging with some nice results. I am currently using a skywatcher 200P with a RA tracking EQ5 mount together with a Nikon DSLR camera. I have had fun imaging with this set up but have noticed I can really only take 1 minute subs before star trailing becomes and issue. This interferes with deep sky objects which require much longer subs.

Its time to get into auto guiding I think but I am pretty clueless about the equipment and so I have a few questions.

Do I need to replace my mount with say a heq5 pro synscan (because it comes with a port for the auto guider) or and EQ6 synscan to deal with the extra weight of a guide scope etc?

As I dont know ...well anything about auto guiding can someone tell me what equipment I would need? preferably at the budget/moderate end of the scale

Also I dont own a laptop so I cant use that to control the systems. are there systems which dont require a laptop or do I also need to purchase one of those to?

Thanks for any advice anyone can give it is much appreciated.

Mark

[lukebl]

With a Skywatcher 200, I would say that the minimum mount would be an HEQ5. I successfully autoguided my Skywatcher on one, with an ST80 scope in guide rings for guiding. I think it was at the limit of its weight capacity, but it worked absolutely fine for me.

So, the extras you would need for a budget option would be a guidescope (Skywatcher ST80, say £80), guide rings (say £80) and an SPC880/900 webcam as a guide cam (say £30 inc nosepiece). Oh, and a coma corrector (c. £110). Plus the cost of the new mount, of course!

Actually, I'm after an old EQ5 mount myself, so that I can use my old 200P when the other scope is busy imaging ....

[ollypenrice]

I would have recommended an HEQ6 but will gladly bow to Lukebl's practical experience. A good guidescope is indeed the ST80 from FLO, cheap and very effective. Take out the lens from the Barlow, hurl it at the nearest annoying street light and use the rest as an extender for...

Guide cameras - Skywatcher Synguider Autoguider

I don't know of any other modern standalone, PC-free, autoguider. I very much doubt that you would need guide rings. I don't have any because I always find a star in the f5 ST80s. I just have them fixed rigidly, though could nudge them left or right in extremis and that would surely cover all eventualities. A rigid fixing is better for avoiding flexure, too.

It is just possible that a netbook, maybe second hand, and webcam with finder guider improvised, might be cheaper. However, you would need to do a fair bit of homework to work it all out.

Olly

[LunarLight]

Thanks for the reply, so to clarify I attach the guide scope to my 200p with the rings. The auto guider to the guide scope and that feeds into the motor controls for the mount? and I dont need a laptop to use this?

Seems straight forward enough which means I probably dont understand it ha ha

As for the EQ5 mount, I would offer to sell cheaply but due to a moment of stupidity I broke the dec motor cog which sucks.

[LunarLight]

just seen your reply olly

I was looking at the Synguider do you know if its any good?

I do have a netbook but I am unsure if they posses sufficient capability to autoguide. If they do that would extend my options a fair bit. I will do some research thanks

[themos]

The Syntrek versions of the mounts support ST-4 guiding, which is what you want if you don't want a laptop in the loop.

The Skywatcher autoguider camera will directly drive an ST-4 aware mount:

Guide cameras - Skywatcher Synguider Autoguider

An ST80 refractor should be big enough to find guide stars with

Startravel - Skywatcher Startravel 80 OTA

If you want to try a homebrew solution, you could keep your EQ5 handset and hack it so that it becomes ST-4 aware (guiding only in RA, I guess, but that's enough to counteract so called periodic-error in the tracking - the declination drift you counteract by accurate polar alignment). Google SimpleGpUsb to get an idea how it's done.

So, guide-scope+guide-camera+mounting-rings+some-mount-enhancement = autoguiding!

I hope that's correct.

[astroimpulse]

I studied the Synguider at length because I didn't want to have to get a laptop/netbook.

However, after weighing up the costs and the benefits I decided to go the netbook route as this also allows me to use software such as EQMOD, PHP, APT which makes things far more accurate. Yet to try out all my gear in anger but the things EQMOD alone can do are well worth it.

The netbook will be here next week, hopefully, but it will run what I need very comfortably.

[ollypenrice]

My netbook handles autouguider and image capture without difficulty. I even do some preprocessing on it while it is on the go, sometimes, though nothing too demanding.

In theory you don't need to guide in Dec with good polar alignment but even with a very high end mount I have found a vast difference between theory and practice...

Steve Steppenwolf, a reliable and expert soul, reviewed the Synguider quite favourably and there was a thread on the subject recently which I did not follow myself. See if you can find it.

What would I go for? Netbook. You want to be using a larger off-camera screen for focus, framing and organizing. With the Synguider you have a fair bit of faffing if a cloud passes over and you lose the guide star. And you have to grovel around in the mud to see the screen if shooting high. But no one said imaging was easy! (Or that you were out there to enjoy yourself!!!!!)

Ignore my sense of humour. I was quite normal till I started imaging...

Olly

[lukebl]

Thanks for the reply, so to clarify I attach the guide scope to my 200p with the rings. The auto guider to the guide scope and that feeds into the motor controls for the mount? and I dont need a laptop to use this?

No. You will need a laptop to control the autoguiding. Unless, of course you go for the synguider. But I prefer the laptop option myself.

[LunarLight]

Thanks for all the replies guys. Seems like there are two options.

First get the ST80 guide scope with skywatcher synguide autoguide cam that will run the mount its self

Secondly get the ST80 and use my netbook to run a guide cam, though I dont know how to go about that. I imagine the programs that have mentioned would handle that.

Before I make a decission though a few more questions. The ST-4 autoguide system is compatible with the HEQ5 Syntrek systems. Does this apply to the PRO synscan systems to? I have read the descriptions of the mounts on FLO and they say they use the same software and both have guide ports but one has the synscan GOTO handset the other doesnt. I would still be able to use the synguide cam with both the syntrek and synscan systems right?

Also given that my setup would consist of my 200p with finderscope, a ST80 together with the guide cam and my Nikon D300 would the HEQ5 be strong enough to hold it all or would I need an EQ6 mount instead? Just to clarify before making purchase decisions

Thanks

Mark

[lukebl]

.....Also given that my setup would consist of my 200p with finderscope, a ST80 together with the guide cam and my Nikon D300 would the HEQ5 be strong enough to hold it all or would I need an EQ6 mount instead? Just to clarify before making purchase decisions

Thanks

Mark

Not sure about the other question but, as I said in my earlier post, my HEQ5 managed it but was probably at its limit. I now use an NEQ6 and I'm much happier about its capacity. It really is a much bigger beast than the HEQ5

[LunarLight]

yeah I just wanted to be sure is all, it would suck to spend 700 pound on something that couldnt hold its weight ha ha! but if yours worked fine then it should be cool

[ollypenrice]

It is not a great idea to be 'undermounted.' My own instinct would be to go for a bigger mount or a smaller scope. I never take our mounts to their limits because it is hard enough as it is.

An ST4 port is an ST4 port, I would have thought. I would check this out with a good supplier like FLO.

Go To is a big bonus in imaging because time is incredibly precious. Also you are very likely to be imaging things that you have no hope of seeing at the eyepiece of any amateur telescope. But it is not essential.

Olly

[themos]

My understanding is that the only difference between the Syntrek and the Synscan versions is in the handset and that ST-4 guiding does not require the Synscan handset. BUT: I haven't actually tried ST-4 guiding with my Syntrek. Your supplier should be able to answer the question definitively.

[kookoo_gr]

in order for deep sky astophotography i would suggest for an eq6 mount in order to handle weight. as for guiding you can also modify a 9x50 finderscope in order to reduce weight. also an altrnative to synguider is the lvi smartguider both of these cameras make you indipendent from a laptop if you take photos with a dslr

[LunarLight]

Thanks for all the replies guys

I figured that saying as I would be investing a large amount of money in this I might as well future proof myself and go for the heavier mount. So I ordered a NEQ6 figuring its cheaper to get that from FLO than get a EQ6 with syntrek and have to pay out an extra 293 in future for the Synscan GOTO handset.

Never had a goto mount before and I am really excited about the possibility of not having to search for objects in a light polluted city, should make things much easier

I also bought the ST80 as a guide scope and the skywatch autoguiding system

I will have to read all the manuals though as I dont even know how to do the three star alignment having never used a computerised mount

[astroimpulse]

The handset new is about £170. The £293 you mention would be for the upgrade kit with motors etc. You wouldn't need that for the Syntrek...just the handset

Anyways...you bought well and will have definitely future-proofed yourself

[LunarLight]

lol sorry guys I have just one more question. Its just come to my attention that I will need a dovetail to attach my guide scope to main scope. For the SW explorer 200p how do I do this and what size do i need to get?

[planetdnb]

i have 200PDS, HEQ5 pro, EQ66 and synguider. Its absolutely at the limit I worked it out to be about 12.5Kg of weight. I had to buy an extra counter weight too.

GET THE EQ6. I'm gutted I didnt spend the extra £180 or whatever it is, and an EQ6 is definatey my next major investment.

That said, when all is working well, the setup works very well!!

[LunarLight]

Yep I am currently awaiting delivery of a NEQ6, decided it was best to go for the bigger mount following alot of advice and research. Expensive but unless I either get a HUGE scope or break my mount it should keep me going for many a year

[planetdnb]

Nice one. I am now jealous!

[chrisshillito]

My understanding is that the only difference between the Syntrek and the Synscan versions is in the handset and that ST-4 guiding does not require the Synscan handset. BUT: I haven't actually tried ST-4 guiding with my Syntrek. Your supplier should be able to answer the question definitively.

ST-4 guiding is independent of the handset however you will most likely want to set/change the guide speed at some stage and this can only be done using the handset or EQMOD

Chris

[LunarLight]

I got my equipment through today! the NEQ6 is a BEAST so much heavier then my EQ5 and so much more sturdy.

How do I attach my guide scope to my main scope rings. The EQ6 came with an additional long dove tail bar however there is only 1 screw on the top of my rings. Also the holes drilled into the bar are wider then spacing provided in the rings that came with the ST80.

Should I just buy some guide scope rings and will that come with the required screws etc?

[planetdnb]

i bought a longer dovetail and had to get some of the right screws off ebay. i then attached my scope rings to the second dovetail.

[starstuck]

great thread! wish i wasnt skint!