Embarrassing Jupiters webcam clinic

[Russe]

And I don't mean using it on Jupiter - as there won't be diffraction patterns.

I mean to ask - I struggle with getting the right focus with my webcam sometimes. Could a bahtinov help for taking Jupiter pics?

[Russe]

oh, and - webcam = 6mm on a 127mm Mak gives me ~ f/20, right?

Is it possible to use it with a Barlow x2 and expect to get focused pics?

Cos, I'm failing miserably with this...

[Russe]

found the answer on Bahtinov and ordered one for 15 quid from FLO.

http://stargazerslounge.com/discussions-scopes-whole-setups/143205-bahtinov-mask-worth-while.html

[Cornelius Varley]

oh, and - webcam = 6mm on a 127mm Mak gives me ~ f/20, right?

Is it possible to use it with a Barlow x2 and expect to get focused pics?

Cos, I'm failing miserably with this...

The f ratio = focal length/aperture = 1500/127 = 11.81. With a 2x barlow you will have a f number of 23.6 which should be about right for your telescope. The reference to 6mm is an approximation of the field of view of a webcam compared to a 6mm eyepiece.

Peter

[dazmoraz]

Hi all.

I wish i had your problems!

If anyone could tell me why mine goes like this as soon as i touch the wavelet settings

in registax i would be forever grateful.I try to do it all by the book eg:cooling down,collimating but 9/10 times it does this!!!

nice shots by the way DrRobin and i cant get on with registax6 either.

jup test.bmp

[DrRobin]

Hi Daz,

How many frames was your image stacked with?

If I compare your picture with my best from a SPC900 and 2x Barlow, I think you have the edge on me. My best pictured you have seen on here used about 2000 frames with a Televue 5x Barlow 250mm scope and a DFK camera, so quite a jump over an SPC900.

In my early days of using Registax 6 I used to get fractals (crazy paving) all over my images as soon as I touched the wavelets, but I found where the frames were good quality (stacked at over 90% quality) it actually worked okay. Prior to that I used Registax 5. Is that what you are experiencing?

For some recordings, especially where there is a lot of movement, I still find that Registax 5 makes a better job than v6, perhaps it's worth a try?

I have sold my 250 dob now, so have been trying a 200mm newt, but it's a short focal length so even with my 5x Barlow, Jupiter is quite small and the images I am getting are no where near as good.

Best suggestion is grab as man frames as you can, try different exposures and frame rates and stack the best frames (say quality over 90%). If Registax 6 doesn't make a good job try Registax 5.

[badgers]

I've been reading this thread and learning a lot....

My first attempts on Jupiter were with static shots from a DSLR on a 2x barlow, stacked without any clue of what I was doing.

Then I started making AVIs with eos movierec, but still didn't have a clue how to use registax properly. At least things improved a bit.

Finally, I spent an hour doing a registax tutorial and finally got this.

I think I'm making progress, I'm not sure but it seems like I might have got the red spot and possibly the shadow of one of the moons on the last attempt ?

I'm also not sure how much I should be able to resolve with my scope on a 2x barlow. Do you think I could push it to a 3x Barlow or higher ?

Thanks for all the advice on this thread and any other pointers appreciated!

Badgers

[DrRobin]

Hi Badgers,

You have captured a lot of detail there, which camera did you use? I have found that it takes me several goes at each image with Registax, trying different settings, multiply that by several AVIs in one night and it takes me the rest of the week to process. However, I seldom save my settings and have now started noting everything down, like which frame I used, the number stacked etc to help reduce time.

Regarding your scope you could easily use a 3x Barlow, probably get away with a 5x as well. The maximum magnification factor doesn't really hold true for webcams used in this way and it's better to go on F number. A 3x Barlow will give you F15, a 5x will give F30.

A 3x won't be much difference to your 2x, it might be worth getting a 4x? If you go for a big Barlow, I would recommend getting the best one you can afford, by the time you get to 5x it needs to be really good quality otherwise it's too hard to get focus.

If I was you I would go for a Televue (or similar) 3x Barlow and an extension tube. With the extension tube between the Barlow and your camera you can get 5x and the quality will be about the same as a Televue 5x, but more usable.

Mind a 5x also reduces the light by 5x, therefore increasing exposure times, making focussing much harder and more susceptible to tracking errors.

With my F5 scope I use a 5x Barlow when the atmosphere is stable (not much shimmer) and a 3x at other times. It's a 250mm dob so it gathers more light in the first place than your 150.

[dazmoraz]

Cheers Robin.

That image was x5 with very few frames just as an example.

generally i do 10fps for as long as i can without a motor,about 1.30mins.

x2 ,x3 Barlow,different settings doesn't make much difference,still happens.

Is getting quality over 90% a matter of keeping the object as steady as you can on

screen or a mixture of everything together?

I have had some half decent images like this one and some OK with not much detail so maybe it was just luck!

Cheers for the quick response.

[badgers]

Hi Badgers,

You have captured a lot of detail there, which camera did you use? I have found that it takes me several goes at each image with Registax, trying different settings, multiply that by several AVIs in one night and it takes me the rest of the week to process. However, I seldom save my settings and have now started noting everything down, like which frame I used, the number stacked etc to help reduce time.

Regarding your scope you could easily use a 3x Barlow, probably get away with a 5x as well. The maximum magnification factor doesn't really hold true for webcams used in this way and it's better to go on F number. A 3x Barlow will give you F15, a 5x will give F30.

A 3x won't be much difference to your 2x, it might be worth getting a 4x? If you go for a big Barlow, I would recommend getting the best one you can afford, by the time you get to 5x it needs to be really good quality otherwise it's too hard to get focus.

Thanks for the feedback DrR,

I'm using the Canon Eos to record movies from a portion of the sensor at about 20fps. Given that my movies are relatively short and untracked, I think its been doing a pretty good job.

I did find a logitech quick cam pro 4000 in a drawer this week, and I'm tempted to test that out too. Are there distinct advantages to using the webcam over recording from the dslr sensor ? The resolution and frame rate seem about the same.

I guess the extension tube idea is one, as I'd not be keen on having my canon hanging off an extension tube.

The televue barlows look fantastic, definitely a good investment.

But I'm not sure whether to invest in getting the webcam adapter and extension tube, or going down the DSLR sensor recording route with a bigger barlow.

Thanks again,

Badgers

[DrRobin]

Hi Badgers,

Sorry, after hitting submit, I guessed you were using your EOS in movie mode. I am guessing that you won't see much improvement with a webcam over your DSLR, but I haven't seen a comparison.

There was a 3x TV Barlow on Astrobuysell for sale, but a quick check now and it looks like it has gone. I have hung my Nikon on the end of my scope before, but I do regularly hang my Atik on the end and it weighs (and costs) as much as most SLRs.

The other barlows which always get a good mention are the TAL, they are a good deal cheaper than a TV but seem very rare. Even new supplies seem a bit thin on the ground you might try Green Witch.

Have a look on this site for a review of a TAL.

[msinclairinork]

Hello,

Need some help here. I'm a complete Jupiter/planetary/registax noob been only doing DSO's before...I'm finding that much easier!

I've tried Jupiter twice now over the last few nights, but can't seem to get much detail out of it.

I looked at this thread before attempting my second go last night for recommended settings - which made a bit of a difference. The part I think I'm really struggling with is the processing and possibly focus also..I did try my best to over expose first to get the moons and focus on them, but it's not easy when the atmosphere is doing its thing!

I know I don't have the ideal scope for this (ED80) and I only have a cheap/stock 2x barlow at the moment. But I'd like to know if it could be possible to get a good detailed surface or should I stop wasting my time and buy a 127 mak or something?

I can't remember the settings for my first attempt (with moons).

Second attempt (no moons):

ED80, SPC800, 2x Barlow

2500 frames - 1400 stacked

WXastrocapture, Registax, PS CS3

1/50, 30fps, gain 50, gamma 0, auto colour, brightness 50, saturation 60.

Any help or advice would be great!

Thanks,

Michael

[Russe]

One thing that id say is use 1/25 or 1/30.

SoRry, no time right now...

[msinclairinork]

Hi Russe,

I have actualy got a AVI at that setting also. But not seeing much of a difference really. I would even go as far to say it was beggining to look over exsposed?

Thanks,

Michael

[Space Cowboy]

The spc webcam wont do 30fps without causing serious video compression. 10fps is the optimum. All the other settings look ok. With your little scope a 4 min avi will be fine. Alas with Jupiter becoming smaller and seeing not being good its going to be tough unless you have a larger scope.

[Yidoboy]

I have out a post out regarding this...before I came across this little beauty of a thread!

This seeme to be the same sort of image I get every time I video Jupiter. I've only got the kit listed on my signature and am using WxAstrocapture and registax...but I don't really know what I'm doing. If I'm honest I run out of patience really quickly and would love to be told the answers in simple, fool proof terms!

Thanks very much in advance for all your help.

Object_20120202_2009_07.bmp

[Stargazer Jack]

I would suggest turning the brightness or contrast up so the image is brighter as it is too dim at the moment. It might not help but always worth a go

[badgers]

Are the images that dim before you go into Registax ?

wxastrocapture has got controls for adjusting the gain and brightness of the input images before you start recording.

Your image looked fine when I whacked up the brightness in photoshop, but you'd be finding it hard to focus well on an image that dim.

Badgers

[Yidoboy]

Brightness adjusted in photoshop express...

[dag123]

Yidoboy.

I use wxAstroCapture and would suggest you play a bit more with the gain and other settings. I switch to auto settings while I locate Jupiter and then fine tune the focus on the moons, then I re-centre the planet and switch to manual mode. These were the settings I last used with my x3ED barlow, bright=33, gam=19, gain=20, shutter=1/25, fps=10. These settings resulted in a pretty good visual image and I also noted that the RGB levels seemed to be about the 128 level which also seems to be something to aim at.

Hope this helps

dag123

[Russe]

Has anyone here tried making LRGB pics of Jupiter?

If so, how would u do that?

[tich]

All I will comment is that I'm quite new to all this imaging & still have plenty to learn. But patience is the key I've only owned my scope since the beginning of December & managed to use it a handfull of times. But this is what I managed to get last Friday night using my webcam, two Stacked 2 X Barlows & my scope. I did a bit of tweaking in registax & I'm still learning my way round that but have come up with this image, my best so far as it shows the great red spot.

Stick with it & you will get there....

[Yidoboy]

I don't have a motor with my 'scope and therefore have to try and manually control image. There is obviously a fair bit of movement because of this....could this be one of the biggest problems?

[dishmop]

I don't have a motor with my 'scope and therefore have to try and manually control image. There is obviously a fair bit of movement because of this....could this be one of the biggest problems?

Doesn't look like it based on your earlier shot.

I have an astromaster 130eq and was doing the same manual wobblycam captures for a while, after some practise with:

a) focus

slow-motion cable adjusters

c) webcam "shutter speed", gain (max), brightness (50%) and gamma (0%)

I was able to get to this: jupiter-26-december | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Buuut, to start with it was looking more like: Jupiter in colour, 10th November | Flickr - Photo Sharing! which is remarkably similar to your first attempts.

Just keep at it and try adjusting the camera settings, your biggest two problems with be focus and getting the camera properties right. Once you've got that sorted out you can do some wobblecam manual tracking to get longer runs of video for stacking.

Hope that helps,

[tomlines]

THIS IS SUCH A GOOD THREAD

THANKS GUYS. MINE IS A VERY SIMPLE ONE

IM USING A 130P GO TO AT THE MOMENT AND HAD SOME JOY WITH JUPITER

IM UPGRADING TO A 200 AUTO DOB FLEX TUBE. SHOULD I EXPECT A NOTICABLE DIFFERENCE WHEN IMAGING PLANETS?

FOR BARLOWS, WHAT WOULD YOU RECOMMEND FOR TEH 200 AUTO? HOW HIGH COULD I GO FOR PLANETARY IMAGING?

THE PICK WAS WITH MY 130 GO TO, STILL A BIT OF A NEWBIE BUT ITS SO ENJOYABLE WHEN YOU GET BACK AND STACK EM ALL AND FIND SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE A PLANET!! :-)