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Tantalus

Oh No! Double Summertime!?

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Conservative MP Rebecca Harris wants to advance clocks an extra hour for all or part of the year! This could mean BST would become GMT +2 :p

We certainly will look at it,” the Prime Minister said. “The argument will be won when people across the country feel comfortable with the change.”

Full story Give me sunshine: David Cameron considers double summertime - Telegraph

IMO, it's bad enough having just one extra hour in the summertime, but if Ms Harris gets her way, then I think it will have a serious impact on observers between March and Oct with fewer hours of darkness in the evenings. Whilst it may not have an impact on some, there are many amateur observers who have to be up early in the morning for work, and they will be hardest hit.

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I'm against summer time (or daylight savings time). Hasn't it been proven that it accomplishes exactly nothing at all? Now they want to try if maybe 2 hours instead of one will change that? Pathetic.

And imagine the confusion with international flight times, train times and so on if only the UK would go 2 hours ahead.

The whole idea of summer time is flawed. Get rid of it.

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I think it's often forgotten that gaining an hour of sun in the evening means you lose one in the morning...

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The new goverment are just great, if there not taking milk from the school kids its darkness from the astronomers........

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This has been tried before, and failed. But my main concern is that a cash-strapped government will push the tourism arguement, and 'Mr Cameron... after delivering a speech in London promising to boost British tourism, and signalled he was willing to consider the switch.'

The Bill is to be debated later in the year, but apparently already has the backing of conservative MPs and others, and the article gives the impression that this is the best chance to date to get the bill passed. There is a lot of resistance to the move in Scotland, but I'm not sure that that would be enough to defeat the bill. And I, for one, am not sure that we can leave it to chance. I intend to write to my MP and make my feelings known.

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Oh dear! Devil's Advocate time.

I've read and understand all your points, I'm still not decided. How many of you are able to sleep in the early evening, before your observing/imaging? Double BST would give you longer beauty sleep! But maybe this accounts for only a small minority.

Another plus point: you may have fewer light-polluted hours, if your neighbours are in the habit of switching things off at midnight.

And: there are often interesting things to be done just before dawn, especially in the autumn (comets; appearances of Mercury, etc.). I generally miss them since I can't get up that early!

But I know I may be in the minority here....

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And: there are often interesting things to be done just before dawn, especially in the autumn (comets; appearances of Mercury, etc.). I generally miss them since I can't get up that early!

Keep in mind that the objects don't change their schedule according to British time. :p

We'd have to set our gotos to other time zones in summer. Their software does not have a 2 hour summer time option. Although this could probably be added with a firmware update.

There's just so many implications with a 2 hour summer time difference.

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Oh dear! Devil's Advocate time.

I've read and understand all your points, I'm still not decided. How many of you are able to sleep in the early evening, before your observing/imaging? Double BST would give you longer beauty sleep! But maybe this accounts for only a small minority.

Another plus point: you may have fewer light-polluted hours, if your neighbours are in the habit of switching things off at midnight.

And: there are often interesting things to be done just before dawn, especially in the autumn (comets; appearances of Mercury, etc.). I generally miss them since I can't get up that early!

But I know I may be in the minority here....

No you are not in the minority.

I happen to love daylight as well as night - and cannot stand those dreary, "non-weather" winters, where all you get it grey cloud...you go to work when it's dark and come home when it is dark. Our British winters a long, dark and often depressing, especially when our clear skies are so few.

Often observation sessions in the early part of the evening in October/November/December onwards can be ruined by the lights from passing cars as people rush about to clubs/coming home from work, and light spilling from neighbours' houses can diminish our dark skies even more. I guess most of us prefer to observe from our garden and not many take their scope out to a darker site.

Bear in mind also, that the optimum time for observing is when the atmosphere is still - which is around 12am.

Edited by Beulah

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GMT +2, i am totally against this :p. Why cant they just leave things as they are. GMT work perfectly as it is, an equal amount of light at AM and PM, but just going off the subject of astronomy for the moment, it would go dark 2 hours later, but what about the morning when kids are on there way to school, and it's pitch black, i suspect the amount of kids getting knocked over by cars in the rush hour would increase, plus other danger's i dare not write about, this has not been thought out at all, what are they going to do, open schools at 10 or 11am.

I too will be writing to my MP about this.

Edited by Si W

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This was tried in the 60's, it didn't work then, and it won't work now.

It proved very dangerous for kids going to school in the mornings.

eta: yes Si W, that's exactly how it panned out.

Edited by Ogri

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661-pete - I absolutely detest going to sleep when it's light, though I understand that some forum members do get up early to observe. I prefer to stay up, then go to sleep later. If there's a reason to be up very late, i.e., 04 - 05am, then I'll pull an all-nighter. Not sure I get your point about fewer light-polluted hours, an extra hour is not going to change peoples lighting habits.

Beulah - I agree about the long depressing winters, Sam, but an extra hour will mean longer depressing mornings on your days off, and an extra hour in the winter is not going to give you much extra light at night, depending on what time you finish work. Up here (Lat 51.5), by the end of December it's already getting dark by around 15:30. And it also means you'll still get those annoying headlights later in the evening, and the light spilling from neighbours homes will still be a problem when you want to observe.

I can see that an extra hour would be less of a problem in the winter, but does that not also diminish the arguements for adding that extra hour?

Edited by Tantalus

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I've had a long think about this - humble pie is being consumed at a rapid rate here.

Got to say I have changed my opinion...reading some internet articles, I discovered that if double summertime was put in action, some areas of the UK may not see a sunrise until 10am! (Scotland). When this issue was raised, it was rebuffed - and even a suggestion of different time zones was rejected because we are a United Kingdom (yeah, right...)

The flagrant disregard to how this may affect other people in the UK was enough to put me off the idea.

If it ain't broke, why fix it?

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when I read this, i had to check the date just to make sure it wasn't an april fool! What a ridiculous idea, I'm no expert on all this temporal malarkey, but wouldn't changing the time forward one hour affect all the time zones, seeing as time is measured from Greenwich, or would we just be in a time zone twice as wide as all the others in the world?

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Ridiculous!! That's all I can say. If it ain't broke then don't fix it.

Or is it just another ruse to keep us awake longer, work longer, and ultimately pay more into the government coffers?

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Well, I knew my view would get a bit of stick, and I'm not really decided about this anyway. Indeed I can see many arguments against DBST.

Just to answer a couple of points:

We'd have to set our gotos to other time zones in summer. Their software does not have a 2 hour summer time option. Although this could probably be added with a firmware update.
I don't have goto, and don't control my 'scope with a computer: I just use my watch for timing. My watch has an alternate time zone display, so I just set that to GMT and work everything to GMT wherever and whenever. Simple! But I appreciate, some may have problems. Perhaps set location to 'Portugal'?
Not sure I get your point about fewer light-polluted hours, an extra hour is not going to change peoples lighting habits.
I was thinking of those neighbours who've finally realised - what they ought to have done years ago - that their exterior lighting and Xmas decorations are costing a bomb, so they switch them off at bedtime, or whatever is bedtime for them (probably when their fave TV programme ends). If bedtime is an hour earlier, so is switching-off time. :p

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Defenatly not in favour of this, I look forward to the winter because of darker evenings, I'm not a morning observer.

Edited by Tddun

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There seems to be a number of people jumping on this bandwagon, ones you'ver never heard of and never will again, professor so and so from somewhere comes out of the woodwork just to to justify their job by getting their names in the media. Unfortunately there appears to be a web site where people can vote their support for the idea,(no I'm not going to provide the link!) have looked but unfortunately can't find one to vote against.

Neil

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Just found this. We need a bit of organised opposition to this so it doesn't sneak through via the back door. I've emailed my regional CFDS coordinator to ask if they are launching a counter-campaign.

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We should hold an SGL Petition. Can't a mod set up an online petition for us all to sign. Seeing as we are all pretty randomly spread across the nation I think it would illustrate how 'United' we can be to Mr Cameron.

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We'd have to set our gotos to other time zones in summer. Their software does not have a 2 hour summer time option. Although this could probably be added with a firmware update.

/QUOTE]

No, you don't.

Just leave the scope time to GMT, and if you use a computer to control the scope, leave this on GMT also.

I do this and never change to summertime etc, and my goto is pretty spot-on :)

Cheers

Rob

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I always have difficulty relating time changes to the practical consequences. I do remember a previous "experiment", that entailed us, as skoolkids (sic) in the late 60s(?), turning up in total darkness. The whole thing had a slightly bizarre feel: Teachers armed with torches, chasing errant schoolboys around in the dark. LOL. Though, from the perspective of the latter, the "evil possibilities" were many and tempting? :)

Edited by Macavity

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I always have difficulty relating time changes to the practical consequences. I do remember a previous "experiment", that entailed us, as skoolkids (sic) in the late 60s(?), turning up in total darkness. The whole thing had a slightly bizarre feel: Teachers armed with torches, chasing errant schoolboys around in the dark. LOL Though, from the perspective of the latter, the "evil possibilities" were many and tempting? :)

I hate getting up in the dark, having to scrape all the frost and icea off the car, and I will be doing it a month longer every year if this lot get their way! :)

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I think you can set up a petition on the No10 government website, I have vague recollection of signing one for some other purpose some time ago. Obviously the problem here would ensuring that enough people know about it and sign it or it could backfire.

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I think you can set up a petition on the No10 government website, I have vague recollection of signing one for some other purpose some time ago. Obviously the problem here would ensuring that enough people know about it and sign it or it could backfire.

Yes, I remember doing something like that too, but some time ago. I suppose that is where SGL comes in - I'm sure most of the people on here would sign, and we have families, friends etc.... (provided they haven't deserted us after us spending all our free time alone and in the solitary dark, neglecting them lol). I'll try to remember to look into it tomorrow.

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