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Spending Challenge - vote to turn streetlights OFF


Dangerous-Dave
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Hi peeps, dunno if anyone has mentioned this yet but HM Treasury has launched a website inviting comments from the public about how we can reduce costs:

How can we re-think government to deliver more for less? — HMT - Spending Challenge

This might be a good opportunity to suggest some LP-reducing cost-savings, eg:

1. turn off all residential streetlights at midnight

2. remove unnecessary lights from motorways

3. turn off all unnecessary floodlighting

4. more energy efficient streetlights with better shielding

This has to be the best opportunity we've had for years. I don't know about the Tories, but the Lib Dems have shown support for dark sky campaigns and better lighting in the past.

:)

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THanks for the tip. Been on the site and voted for the proposals - unfortunately lots of people seem to be making the same proposal, so the votes are going to be split...

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Very good idea and considering how many members we have on here its everyone's duty as an astronomer to bombard them with light reduction ideas :):D

Here's what I sent:

1. Turn off all residential streetlights at midnight

2. Remove unnecessary lights from motorways

3. Turn off all unnecessary floodlighting

4. More energy efficient streetlights with better shielding

5. All government & council buildings to have a lighting curfew after office hours

6. Ban the sale of halogen lighting which is extremely wasteful and inefficient

7. Force all businesses to have a lighting curfew after business hours

8. Accelerate & subsidise LED lighting technology

We can only try :D

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Judging from that site its poplutade by the barking mad and I'll not put anything on it. I know this is lapsing dangerously close to politics on here but I reckon our masters will simply use every idea to cut services and anything else and then say 'well you voted for it'. As much as anything the whole thing is undemocratic. After the event when the Government cuts stuff you need yhey will be able to say 'oh it was on our message board' and you'll have no proof if it was or wasn't - IO dont much like the idea of being ruled by faceless people on a web board.

Sorry but I wont be voring for anything on that no matter how worthy it may seem.

Apologies for getting into politics on this one. Mods feel free to delete this if you think its too toxic.

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Well Dave I sent it off I work in London and if you know London you will know the waistage on lighting there and down the motorways

we can not aford this any more

Doug Essex

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Judging from that site its poplutade by the barking mad and I'll not put anything on it. I know this is lapsing dangerously close to politics on here but I reckon our masters will simply use every idea to cut services and anything else and then say 'well you voted for it'. As much as anything the whole thing is undemocratic. After the event when the Government cuts stuff you need yhey will be able to say 'oh it was on our message board' and you'll have no proof if it was or wasn't - IO dont much like the idea of being ruled by faceless people on a web board.

Sorry but I wont be voring for anything on that no matter how worthy it may seem.

Apologies for getting into politics on this one. Mods feel free to delete this if you think its too toxic.

Well yes, if you want to be cynical about it, then maybe its just a PR stunt like the Number Ten petitions site, to give the illusion of consulting the public. A lot of people have obviously interpreted it as such and posted their insane ramblings for a laugh.

All the same, there is a possibility someone from HM Treasury will be wading through the poo for workable suggestions and find a body of public support for curbing street lighting, take a look at what's going on in Norfolk, Suffolk and elsewhere and think "maybe this one has legs?".

Surely having an internet brainstorming site is more democratic than listening to political lobbyists, or making policy based on the vested interest of your sponsors which is what has happened in the past?

D

Edited by Dangerous-Dave
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Well Dave I sent it off I work in London and if you know London you will know the waistage on lighting there and down the motorways

we can not aford this any more

Doug Essex

Hi Doug, I studied astronomy at UCL then lived in London for ten years. I completely lost interest in the hobby after Uni because the skies were so dismal. Is it any surprise people don't value astronomy or space exploration, when they are so rarely able to experience the wonders of a dark sky? Seeing the Milky Way running overhead, horizon to horizon is always a profound experience for me and I think everyone has a right experience that!

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if you sort by "votes" order then the most popular only have 5 votes each... and they are at the moment all NHS related...

Now if we vote for all the seperate light off ideas then they should take up the first few pages...

Billy...

Edited by Psychobilly
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I share Astro-Baby's concern over the government's tactics (dammit, we elected these people to take the responsibility to make decisions on our behalf - that's what democracy is - not to lazily abrogate that responsibility by relying on weblogs or the Daily Mail for their policies) but I think that the street lights issue 'has legs'. Primarily because it will demonstrably both save public money, and be good for the environment. Win Win.

Of course, the naysayers will winge on about increased knife crime, etc. etc. True, in some areas you need street lights for personal security, but do we really need them at 3 am in most residential areas?

Edited by lukebl
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I'm amazed at the amount of negative comments on this thread :)

It may or may not be PR, and it may or may not have an effect, but we have nothing whatsoever to lose by supporting this proposal, and everything to gain.

We have thousands of members here and it is our responsibility to do all we can to reclaim our dark skies. If even half of us support these proposals, that will put an awful lot of support behind them.

The forum is littered with comments about unnecesary lighting, andd here is an opportunity to have a say.....maybe it won't make any difference, but doing nothing certainly wont.

Rob

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I'm amazed at the amount of negative comments on this thread :)

It may or may not be PR, and it may or may not have an effect, but we have nothing whatsoever to lose by supporting this proposal, and everything to gain.

We have thousands of members here and it is our responsibility to do all we can to reclaim our dark skies. If even half of us support these proposals, that will put an awful lot of support behind them.

The forum is littered with comments about unnecesary lighting, andd here is an opportunity to have a say.....maybe it won't make any difference, but doing nothing certainly wont.

Rob

Agreed....we have absolutely nothing to lose, Im pretty sure they will have an automated script to highlight topics which have the most public support. 10000 members here would generate quite a peak in their interests graph.

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if you sort by "votes" order then the most popular only have 5 votes each... and they are at the moment all NHS related...

Now if we vote for all the seperate light off ideas then they should take up the first few pages...

Billy...

I really think this approach has possibilities rather than each person just setting up new 'ideas'. If the highest votes are 5, 10 members of SGL would make an impact if they all vote for the same 'idea'.

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It depends on how they are going to review the data...

I would say "voting" for say 10-20 lighting reduction posts which are energy / CO2 reduction related would cover most angles....

Up and runing again now.. im using PBS rather than the longform...

Peter...

Edited by Psychobilly
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(dammit, we elected these people to take the responsibility to make decisions on our behalf - that's what democracy is

I disagree. That's not what democracy is and I don't know how we were ever sold the idea that elections means democracy. The classical Athenians considered elections an aristocratic institution (after all, the rich, good-looking and well-connected have an inherent advantage there). The democratic tradition is self-rule via direct decision-making (as in Switzerland) and selection by lot when delegates are needed. It survives today in the jury selection system.

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I live in a busy part of London on a road, which acts as a kind of backroad from the main high street to all the residential streets and on any given night between the hours of 12am to 5am, there will be on average 7 people for which we have 22 street lights!

Edited by nitram100
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