Telescope Planet ceases trading

[andyhicks]

I had the same problem with TP as everyone else I've read about on forums so I didn't hesitate to take them to small claims court. They will have recieved my claim on about the 24/4, it deemed to be served on the 28/4 and they have untill 12/5 to respond. For mine and anyone elses sake who's owed money I hope they've not got into admin! I don't count on getting anything if they have. I don't know much about it all though, all I know is TP didn't want to resolve my issue so I did something about it. This new development is new news to me so I've no idea where I stand or what will happen. I hope 'simon and debs' are just on holliday! And if they are looking for a new job then they can join me at the jobcentre on Tuesdays, I can teach them something about customer service! I was good at it.

[nibbo]

One of my friends lives just a couple of miles away and went round on my behalf earlier today. He said the shutters were down on the building. I went there approx 3 months ago and the few staff there were extremely helpful, but you could tell that the place needed a few more bodies.

Most companies drop ship - I tried to buy a Camberwick Green DVD box set at Xmas (dont laugh), and bought one off ebay, then had my money returned as not in stock, this was repeated twice more, one Amazon & another ebay. Finally I found one guy who had stock, I emailed him first and he said he felt it immoral to advertise stock available when it wasn't, common practice with most firms he said, and I had the last one.

[Astro_Baby]

Daz - I take your point about libel (quite seriously actually) but it seems a shame that when retailers get a drubbing on web boards their first priority is to start making legal noises about libel RATHER than sorting the problem out.

Many years ago I was stictched up by a supplier and gave them some nice publicity about their service on a website I was then running. I never made any libelous statements, merely stated the facts. They spend a good part of 9 months trying to sue me rather than simply sorting out the problem. I mean for Petes sake it probably cost them 100x what the product cost on lawyers fees. In the end they agreed to settle if I would remove the website castigating their company and its products. By that time I was so annoyed I simply told them 'its gone beyond money now - all I want to do is damage is your business'.

Rather like certain retailers talked about in the astro world they eventually folded and its nice to know I played a small part in that. Normally I find company closures sad things. I have closed a few companies down in my time and its nvere a happy feeling, BUT, in some cases they are authors of their own destiny and in a few cases its well deserved.

When I ran an electronics company if I had customer complaints I took them VERY seriously and we made adjustments to make usre whatever the issue was it didnt happen again. Its a shame that some retailers have enough time to spend trawling forums and writing nasty missives about libel instead of asking 'what are we doing wrong ?' and trying to fix it.

The problem is as ever bad retailers dump price and mess up the market for the people who really want to do a good service. I suppose as consumers we are all to blame - we are often pressing on price rather than value.

[simon84]

Well you can't stop firms going bust, but if you use a credit card (NOT a debit card) then at least you won't lose financially - the card company will absorb the hit.

Hi Brian,

Just to let you know that I bank with RBS and have a Visa Debit card with them and I have buyer protection the same as a credit card.

RBS have just upgraded from Maestro Solo to Visa Debit so its a fairly new thing but useful to know.

Cheers,

Simon.

[TheThing]

Just to let you know that I bank with RBS

You're a brave man to admit that!

I believe that most debit cards now offer this kind of protection.

[ollypenrice]

A_B says 'I never made any libelous statements, merely stated the facts.' Now I may be quite wrong, but is it not the case that in English law, rather oddly, you can still perpetrate libel even what what you say is quite true? It seems crazy to me so is there a lawyer in the house?

Olly

[simon84]

You're a brave man to admit that!

I believe that most debit cards now offer this kind of protection.

I dont have much money tied up in accounts with them, I dont have much money fullstop.....lol.

[Demonperformer]

A_B says 'I never made any libelous statements, merely stated the facts.' Now I may be quite wrong, but is it not the case that in English law, rather oddly, you can still perpetrate libel even what what you say is quite true? It seems crazy to me so is there a lawyer in the house?

Olly

Libel is defined as defamation in a permanent form, defamation being defined as "the publication of a statement which tends to lower a person in the estimation of right-thinking members of society generally, or which tends to make them shun or avoid that person" (Byrne vs Deane, 1937).

There is no burden of proof on the plaintiff to establish that the defendant's statement is untrue; all the plaintiff has to do is to prove publication plus the defamatory nature of the statement. However, the essence of defamation is a false statement; a defendant may always plead the truth of the statement as a defence in civil libel (this is not true in cases of criminal libel).

In English law, if a statement is true, no injury is done to the plaintiff's reputation; it is simply reduced to its true level. It does not matter if the statement was made maliciously or even that the defendant did not believe it to be true; so long as it is true the defence of justification is complete.

In a defence of justification, the defendant must show that the words are 'true both in substance and fact'. He must show that the words are both literally true AND that there is no significant omission which would affect the truth of the statement taken as a whole.

The defence of justification really amounts to a positive charge against the plaintiff, and if it fails the damages may be increased, since the original wrong has been aggravated. The defendant's honest belief that the statement is true is no justification, though it may reduce damages. Nor is it justification to prove that a quoted statement was made, if the quotation cannot be proved to be true.

[condensed from Smith & Keenan's English Law 9th edition]

[Capricorn]

Seem to have lost sight of the fact that a telescope retailer has gone out of business. One less to buy from. Hinds stopped retailing a few months back. Guessing that in national terms we could have less then 10 specialist telescope retailers now.

Personally I would like to see the practise of slam a retailer removed from the site. Doesn't really help and I see perhaps 1 post a week added but how many items has the retailer sold/dispatched? If 5 items then 1 in 5 then is poor, if 1000 then less then 0.1% problems.

A-B asked if are we are partially to blame, we only look at the cheapest and cheapness comes at shaving off of other areas, staff being the obvious, another being delivery costs, the person that maintains a web site of say 10,000 items.

Also I have looked at the good sites, seen some items and rang up to be told we don't have any in stock - wait 2-3 weeks. Items were on the web site and remained on the web site and remained "In Stock". GW advertise WO SWAN's but when I rang they said they don't bother with them, so none at all there.

[steve_bham]

Seem to have lost sight of the fact that a telescope retailer has gone out of business. One less to buy from. Hinds stopped retailing a few months back. Guessing that in national terms we could have less then 10 specialist telescope retailers now.

Personally I would like to see the practise of slam a retailer removed from the site. Doesn't really help and I see perhaps 1 post a week added but how many items has the retailer sold/dispatched? If 5 items then 1 in 5 then is poor, if 1000 then less then 0.1% problems.

A-B asked if are we are partially to blame, we only look at the cheapest and cheapness comes at shaving off of other areas, staff being the obvious, another being delivery costs, the person that maintains a web site of say 10,000 items.

Also I have looked at the good sites, seen some items and rang up to be told we don't have any in stock - wait 2-3 weeks. Items were on the web site and remained on the web site and remained "In Stock". GW advertise WO SWAN's but when I rang they said they don't bother with them, so none at all there.

Its a shame to see any business fail but at the end of the day the good company's listern to its customers and responds if there is a problem. With the internet the world has got much smaller buying stuff from europe or usa is just a click away. Ive got alot more than 10 companies on my favs list so think there is more than 10 in uk to buy from with confidence.

Steve

[Macavity]

Libel is defined as defamation in a permanent form, defamation being defined as "the publication of a statement which tends to lower a person in the estimation of right-thinking members of society generally, or which tends to make them shun or avoid that person" (Byrne vs Deane, 1937).

Now there's a scary thought! (My emphasis). Just reminded of the little foibles of some "right-thinkers" 'round here. Useful info tho'.

But then I'm normally quite careful what I say on the internet. Heck, I was an acquaintance of some of the parties involved in: Free Speech, But Whose?. I guess I was too BUSY at the time to care about such things...

I can understand why ISPs and Forum providers get nervous though.

[brianb]

Guessing that in national terms we could have less then 10 specialist telescope retailers now.

Umm, there are quite a few small dealers who specialize away from the "mass market" - thinking particularly of Modern Astronomy & Ian King Imaging, both of whom are excellent.

Anyhow, 10 is enough ... competition is good but I'd rather have a choice of half a dozen good dealers than a couple of dozen bad ones.

Personally I would like to see the practise of slam a retailer removed from the site.

I would like to see the end of trading practices which give rise to the slamming threads. OK, everyone makes mistakes, but when the same companies are giving bad service time & time again I think it's fair that prospective customers should be warned about what they may be dealing with.

[johninderby]

There are more specialist telescope retailers operating in the UK this year than there were last year, so the amount of choice has actually increased. There are now a number of retailers to choose from that give outstanding service and customers have come to expect that. Telescope Planet didn't address it's customer service & relations problems adequately so customers voted with their wallets and went elsewhere. It's a shame to see a business fail but at the end of the day unhappy customers = failure.

Is Telescope Planet trying to refinance, looking for a buyer for the business or is it for some other reason. Only they know.

John

[Astro_Baby]

I never like to see a business fail. At one time in my life it was my sad duty to close a business down. I was appointed as a consultant to asses their prospects of survivival and regrettably had to advise its bank and its backers that they were a very poor risk. I was mindful the whole time that staff would lose jobs, suppliers to the company would not be paid with the subsequent knock on effects to their suppy chain BUT at the end of the day it would have been irresponsible to let them carry on running up debt.

If only someone had applied the same thinking to the banks

The management of that company had in essence run the company to the ground and for them I felt no pity at all. The staff are another thing as are the innocents - their suppliers, customers etc.

I have also in my time had my own company busted by a VC investor and believe me theres nothing more painful to me that seeing someone go down the tubes. Companies are more than products, they are people, dreams, aspirations and it hurts to see one go. These days I work in commercial property and even though I scarecly know some of the tenants when one of them takes a dive I feel pangs for the loss. Its not about the rent its about someones hopes and dreams because thats what all companies start up with.

Bet when alls siad and done when companies are willing to allow bad vibes to happen through negelect of the customers they really should, as I said up top, look to themselves to see whats going wrong. When the dont then they have no one to blame but themselves.

To be honest I dont see a slot of 'slamming' what I do see is unhappy customers. I have always said that all companies have problems (the one that doesnt is either lying or just arent aware of them) but the REAL test of a company is how it responds to those problems. Do they jump in, take responsibility and help the customer or do they promise to return calls and never do, tell you how tough THEIR business is or utter meaningless statements or, in some cases, simply ignore you.

I have seen retailers on here get a hit from a wound up customer and have posted back to say 'whoops, soory we'll sort it out ASAP' and they have. Others have chosen to start talking legal and suffered the consequences in lost sales which is the result. You can shyt people up on a web board but you cant stop them talking to each other and passing on bad service stories. When a customer and a company start talking lawyers the relationship is over and something has already gone badly wrong. To me the fact that a company is talking in terms of libel, in many cases, just tells me they are rogues or bullies and have no intention of resolving their poor service. Sometimes they are in denial, mostly they are lying to the customers and themselves. Johnson said that 'patriotism is the last refuse of the coundrel' I'd suggest the last refuge for the rogue is law.

Personally I'd not be worried if we were down to 10 dealers, it might allow the ones left to make a decent living AND provide good quality support along with showrooms etc.

I learnt long ago to put value to service and not argue the price down too much because the end result is a poor service and it behoves us all as customers to remember that. If its 15% cheaper somewhere else theres often a reason - usually the service is worse.

People may remember my little tantrm with Skywatcher some time ago. Did they ignore it, did they come after me with a lawyer. Nope - they made the effort to get in touch, ask how things could be put right and were reasoanble, straight talking - honest. They did put it right and sorted it all out when the dealer wouldnt. THATS a good company and I have never slagged skywatcher or OVL because of it.

I used to see a problem as an opportunity - its an opportunity for a company to really show what its made of and a chance to truly impress the customer.

The people I feel sorry for in all of this are the customers who may not get their cash back - if its been over 70 days (I think) the card company may decline to act to recover the cash, thats because they have passed on the money to the dealer - when you pay via card the card company gets the cash and only passes it on after about 60 days to the dealer - the money is held by the card company to ensure the good behavour of the merchant in most cases.

I think its safe to assume TP have gone though.

[Jamie]

Seem to have lost sight of the fact that a telescope retailer has gone out of business.

Sorry Capricorn but i beg to differ, This thread is here BECAUSE a telescope retailer has went out of business.

Personally I would like to see the practise of slam a retailer removed from the site.

I am sorry but i take exception to that remark.

I don't know what site you are looking at Capricorn but this site DOES NOT have a practice of retailer slamming.

All retailer reviews are moderated BEFORE they go live. We try our best to only allow "factual" retailer reviews to be posted on SGL.....

[Robert Gordon]

Seem to have lost sight of the fact that a telescope retailer has gone out of business. One less to buy from.

Personally I would like to see the practise of slam a retailer removed from the site. Doesn't really help and I see perhaps 1 post a week added but how many items has the retailer sold/dispatched? If 5 items then 1 in 5 then is poor, if 1000 then less then 0.1% problems.

I stood to loose £370 had my credit card company not refunded not to mention the hassel and frustration of dealing with TP. I'm teacher in a Secondary school and ordered the camera to be used as part of a science festival. The camera was to be the key attraction (solar imaging). In spite of leaving a 2 month lead time

I had to cancel this part due to Telescope Planets inability to honour their part of the contract. Now a few dissapointed kids will soon forget, but some of us stand to loose a significant amount of money, one poster across on Sky At Night stands to loose £2953 of his hard earned money.

As far as I am concerned the more information that is posted on forums like this on suppliers the better - consumers are intelligent enough to filter out what needs to be filtered out. £2953 for crying out loud, if teh guy looses that amount of money then how does he recover from that. So lets let's not get all tied up about offendng sensibilities about "slamming retailers" ! Rather, let's get information and support out to those who need it to get their money back.

[johnkirkpatrick]

We still do not know for sure they have closed for sure, There could be many different reasons, I would like them to stop trading but if they do cease trading as Telescope Planet there's nothing to stop them re-naming there company and continue on with there awful services a just feel sorry for anyone who has gave them money.

[George]

one poster across on Sky At Night stands to loose £2953 of his hard earned money.

TBH anyone spending this sort of money should be putting it on a credit card just for safety reasons, any purchase I make over £150 goes straight on the CC whether I have the money or not......why risk your own cash?

[TheThing]

Wonder what S@N will be doing for a first prize for Hotshots next month?

[johninderby]

Wonder what S@N will be doing for a first prize for Hotshots next month?

Telescope Planet (the whole company that is)

John

[TheThing]

Like that one!

[Robert Gordon]

TBH anyone spending this sort of money should be putting it on a credit card just for safety reasons, any purchase I make over £150 goes straight on the CC whether I have the money or not......why risk your own cash?

Reading the post I don't think use of credit card was the issue. The guy lives in France where it appears consumer law only gives a 70 day window to make a claim. I think his greater mistake was not researching the reputation of his chosen supplier before comitting that sum of money. Hence my point, the more feedback we have on suppliers the better.

[Demonperformer]

TBH anyone spending this sort of money should be putting it on a credit card just for safety reasons, any purchase I make over £150 goes straight on the CC whether I have the money or not......why risk your own cash?

Because some of us (a) don't have a credit card, and ( could not get one with the credit rating we have. Not to mention the financial mess we got ourselves into when previously owning one, resulting in the above, which would make us think twice about getting one even if we could.

[jigsaw]

I was in the shop about a month ago and the person who served me can't rember his name told me the owner was moving out of wales and was probably closing down

[Tim]

Well you can't stop firms going bust, but if you use a credit card (NOT a debit card) then at least you won't lose financially - the card company will absorb the hit.

Well, technically, the companies who pay the card companies for the privilege of using the PDQ machines end up financing the hits, which is then passed on to the consumer They just raised the interest rates on my machines.

Good advice though, Credit cards are the way to go when shopping, as long as you can afford to pay the balance before the interest builds up.