Help with crashing observatory please!

[michaelmorris]

The PC in my observatory has suddenly started crashing. There's no blue screen of death, the whole thing simply turns off without warning.

Sometimes it tries to reboot and then goes to 'Bad BIOS Check Sum', sometimes it doesn't try to reboot, but will start fine if I start it up again, sometimes it doesn't try to reboot and won't restart for a few minutes.

I've tried unplugging the internet connection, running anti virus and anti spyware software, unplugging all the peripherals except the keyboard and mouse and replaced the BIOS battery, but it still does it.

Sometimes it will run for a hour before turning off, sometimes it won't even get through boot up.

HELP!

[insomnia]

I assume the obs is watertight? What about condensation getting into the system?

Check this site, it might help you.. but it looks like it might be a cmos battery issue

CMOS Checksum Bad Error

[davew]

Hi Mike,

It's as if you were describing my PC except I can't remember seeing the Bios bit.

Mine was not a software problem but hardware. After doing all the usual things I started taking out and cleaning all the connections inside the PC. Memory then Graphics card and then success, the hard drive.

Not missed a beat since. Hope this helps.

Dave.

[brianb]

The usual problems that cause this sort of unreliability issues are, in no particular order, power supply; memory gone bad; overheating. Check that the fans are running in particular the CPU heatsink cooler fan and any fan fitted to the northbridge chip on the motherboard. If so it's probably a good idea to try running a memory test program ... memtest86 is a good one. If the memory is going bad you will get screensfull of messages telling you so (interspersed with periods of "normal running"). If the PSU is on its way out then the computer will randomly reset itself without memtest detecing errors.

Most likely the PSU but the memory is easier to change ....

[Beyond_Vision]

I agree with Brian it probably isnt the CMOS battery as it would not cause a problem once booted cleanly. CMOS battery problem would only result in you loosing bios settings which may cause it to not to boot.

Regards

Kevin

[Bizibilder]

I'd also go with the plug/unplug everything route first - sometimes vibration from fans etc or a tight cable can cause problems of what looks like an intermittent power supply. JUST IN CASE BACKUP YOUR FILES FIRST!!!! "YOU NEVER KNOW, YOU KNOW!!"

(My 400th post!)

[George]

Its nearly always a memory stick or graphics card working loose in their slots, try re-seating them. Also check the PSU is not blocked with dust and fluff....same for the CPU heatsink and fan.

[beamish]

If it were the memory wouldn't you get a beep code ?

or is that just HP ?

[brianb]

If it were the memory wouldn't you get a beep code ?

You would if the memory was missing or completely broken. If the memory is sort of working intermittently it can pass the BIOS detection, the system will start to boot, but since the interrupt vectors get written into memory, when interrupts are enabled the system can do anything if the vectors get farkled.

[michaelmorris]

Thanks for all the tips guys, keep 'em coming.

I've run Memtest86 and the memory check out okay. Next I'm going to try one-by-one unplugging Hard disks, graphics card, DVD drive etc , cleaning the connections then reseating them.

Deep joy!

I'll let you know how it get on.

[derrickf]

I had a similar problem a few weeks ago with one of my machines; I tried substituting all the ususal suspects (memory, graphics card etc.) from an identical PC - it turned out to be the power supply unit that needed to be replaced.

Derrick

[markckram]

On a couple of occasions, the old ( well relatively, 2005 but made like a brick sh*thouse) Siemens Amilo A1630 laptop I now use exxclusively for driving the mount got caught in a rain shower, it also started acting perculiarly, shutting down, rebooting, etc at whim....the keyboard keys also acted up, not working, sticking, etc

After leaving it upside down near the heater for the electronics to dry out with it's screen slightly open in a V shape, it eventually corrected itself after a day or 2.

Amazingly, after all the abuse its had to forego, even the power supply lead being damaged and not being able to find a replacement, it still manages to do the job at hand.

[Catanonia]

I would say it is overheating, sounds very much like it.

[Space Bat]

You need to generate a health report - this will flag up all the issues to why your computer is crashing and what drivers or issues there are...

For Vista - but should be near enough the same process for other versions,

Open Control panel and then go into system maintanence - you can check out by going down the window to Problem reports and solutions and click on the view problem history on the right hand side - this may flag up software issues...

But I normally use the next tab down which is performance information and tools click on this and when the new window opens then click on advanced tools on the left hand side. When this window open you may see highlighted issues underneath performance issues...

Anyway you can run view performance details in events log and at the bottom generate system health report...

When you have captured all the issues covered above I normally then google the items causing issues and find the fix required...it is suprising how many are flagged up, and when you sort them out, your PC/Laptop is wickedly fast....

Hope this helps

Chris

[dark knight]

This can be the first signs of your power supply failing, is your power supply able to handle the draw of power put on it, unplug all things that draw power from the pc, printers, usb devices etc and see what happens/how long it remains stable. Also get a diagnostics of your memory/ram using the following program which is free

Microsoft Online Crash Analysis

[michaelmorris]

Well I've disconnected all the components (hard disks, DVD drive etc) cleaned the contacts and dried them with a hair drier. I've swept any dust from the mother board, CPU fan and vacuumed out the PSU. All seems okay so far, but we will wait and see!

However, I fully expect it to crash at any moment!

[Bizibilder]

Has it crashed yet?????

[michaelmorris]

Looking good so far, but I'm not getting my hopes up too much.

[TopHouse]

I disagree about CMOS battery. I was once in PC Extreme computing magazine (no longer in print) for running the UK's fastest air cooled PC, I actually only got beaten by people using vapochill units but that's another story. Anyway, I'm used to various different mobo manufacturers and bios settings and their various 'quirks' due to pushing very high tolerences.

The cmos battery 'hold's your settings when the machine is not powered, if the battery condition does become questionable, it doesn't always result in all bios settings being lost, what it 'can' do is cause only certain setings to be lost, ie memory timings, it's possible for it to reset to a default or strange memory timing that is just within the tolerences of the installed memory, meaning it becomes unstable in use, sometimes it boots, sometimes it doesn't etc etc.

As stated above, in this case, because the machine is in an obsy, I'm assuming outbuilding meaning it's exposed to quite large temperature and humidity shifts, so 'board creep' is a factor and removing mem & boards and reseating may well have done it. if it hasn't, and you're comfortable with setting up Bios I would replace the cmos battery and do a cmos clear then redo bios settings.

[michaelmorris]

Hi Guys. I had already done the CMOS battery replacement and restored the BIOS settings to default and it still crashed.

Anyway, it's been running for over 3 hours now with no problems so I guess it might be fixed. (famous last words). We shall see.....

[TopHouse]

Did you do a cmos clear before setting them to default though? if it crashes again that's the first thing i'd try since it costs nothing. Hopefully though you've got it figured with the board moving you've done.

Also, one to bear in mind, especially if you're into photography. I don't think anyone knows exactly what it is that causes it but some webcam software, most often 'Logitech' can have some strange effects, for instance you can get crashes with some software and unplugging the webcam can stop it (this one was first discovered by the hardcore gaming fraternity when running the top end games) Also some controller software can be affected by a registry entry that Logitechs put in, for instance it can completely kill midi control untl you remove the registry entry placed by the logitech.

[michaelmorris]

Well it's been running for three hours again this morning and I've just plugged in the USB hub, a webcam, speakers and telescope control cable and run several programs simulatously and it hasn't fallen over... ...yet. (fingers crossed)

[Euan]

I've had something like this recently with the obs PC and I had to re-seat the RAM, it must be a condensation thing as someone has already said, maybe the copper starts to degrade or get a coating of some sort

[brianb]

I've had something like this recently with the obs PC and I had to re-seat the RAM, it must be a condensation thing

No ... the contacts can become poor due to thermal expansion & contraction if the temperature is allowed to fluctutae wildly.

Running computers 24x7 with power saving disabled is a good way of keeping condensation out as well as making sure that the temperature remains stable. I have a linux system which is now coming up to 8 years continuous operation! Hard disks in particular hate being turned on & off ... power saving is one thing but the cost in terms of failed components, repair & restoration time is much higher ... in an observatory, if you think you may need to run a heater to keep condensation out anyway, then running the computer 24x7 makes lots of sense.

Give it something to do whilst it's not needed for astronomy - finding prime numbers, SETI or something - so it doesn't get bored.

[George]

Its probably cheaper in the long run as Brian as said not only in components but also in having to splash out on dehumidifiers etc, I know its not very green but neither is manufacturing replacements PC's. Mine has already survived the coldest winter in 25 years with no ill effects running 24/7....summer is a different kettle of fish as it hits 45C+ in the obsy during the day and no amount of cooling has worked for me, during the summer months the PC is switched off when not in use.