My new / old scope

[philj]

The guys and gals of the Classic Scope sectionknow I have been biting my fingernails over this scope all week. I spotted this Broadhurst Clarkson 3" Refractor (circa 1920 Starboy I think) at a local auction viewing day in the corner together with a monster of an eq mount in bits. Cos I wouldnt be able to get along on auction day I placed a commission bid for as much as I dared - AND WON IT :D

Only got it tonight so havent tried it but its all there together with terrestial ep and a set of 5 astronomical eps all with "sun caps" fitted. The mount is MASSIVE!. Cast iron sections and beutifully machined RA worm and sector wheel, the clutch is ingenious to say the least.

The side of the mount block shows signs of having a makers plaque but this has long gone so if anyone can identify it. I think the cradles are home made for this scope and the scope is strapped into them with 2 ginormous leather straps. Anyrode less of my waffle and heres some pics. Hope to show somemore as I investigate further

Philj

[philj]

Some more

[philj]

And some more

[Doc]

Very impressive Phil. It looks rather heavy, do these scopes have good optics?

[philj]

Pretty good optics for their age Mick,although this one needs a good strip and clean. The scope itself is surprisingly light, on a par with the Towa I reckon

But the mount is incredibly heavy all cast iron/ brass and walnut. I reckon the mount was originally intended for a pier as there is a threaded socket in the base, I reckon it would collapse any tripod

[Astro_Baby]

OMG whats a find - its beautiful and I hate you very much

[Beyond_Vision]

What a great find it looks fantastic

Regards

Kevin

[AndyH]

I hope Mel doesn't know your address Phil. She was talking about bludgeoning people, with her Tal 1 earlier............

Amazing looking scope. Brasswork looks in good nick.

Andy.

[AndyH]

I.R. Poyser still make brass scopes n stuff to order, so if you were wanting a brass item or whatever, they could help out.

I. R. Poyser Telescopes - Welcome

Damn that's a fine scope. Nice pics.

More pics of the mount too, when you've got time. Looks a beast.

Andy.

[yeti monster]

Lovely scope Phil, I love proper old scopes. Won't ask how much (but I want to.....)

[RobH]

Ooooh, I am really jealous

Both the scope and the mount are beautiful.

Cheers

Rob

[philj]

Thanks Guys and Gal I am well pleased. Woke up this a:m really early and just couldnt get it out of my head so I was in the garage at about 0600 looking how I can fit the mount to my CGE Tripod. The mount weight for weight is similar to the CGE and as the CGE is in the obs permanently mounted to a pier so its tripod has just been gathering dust. It will gather no more though cos its gonna be used for this mount

Im still playing:D so a few more pics in the pipeline soon.

Ahh yes Andy, Poysers I must have a word with them re RAS to 1 1/4" adapter, thats too much for my basic lathe skills.

Oh and as for the price, well Ill just say it was cheaper than some mid range 80mm apos out there, but my commission bid was much much more because I wanted to blow the dealers and posh types who just want it for show out of the water.

Phil (Auction Man) j

[philj]

Heres some more especially of the mount, if anyone can identify the mount I would be most grateful. You can se where the nameplate was on teh side of the wood RA wedge.

The only tripod that would handle the weight of the mount was the CGE. It looks the part I reckon:D. I bolted the mount cast iron base plate direct to the CGE top with 3 off 8mm bolts so that isnt going anywhere in a hurry.

The RA drive is really novel. The worm is on a hinged and sprung bracket that holds it onto the RA sector worm. You can adjust the worm seating pressure as well. The manual slow motion rod is my favourite bit on the mount. Its turned makogany with a universal joint at the mount end.

[philj]

Here it is fully assembled plus a right poser standing next to it for scale:D

I set it up between showers to test it out terrestially on some trees a couple of miles away and all is well optically, veryclear and sharp and I havent even cleaned it yet.

The finder is interesting. Its r&p focusiing but the knob is in the middle of the tube. It has a good cross hair but the views are very milky so I have a little investigating to do. I dont think the finder or brackets are original BC Starboy as the period adverts I have seen . show what look to be cast brackets and push focusing on the finder. The brackets are not cast but hand cut from pieces of solid brass and screwed and soldered together, superb craftsmanship.

All RAS thread eyepieces are good even though the one marked 120x has an opening bthe size of a pinhead to look through.

I reckon this scope is F13 with a clear 73mm apeture so should give nice lunar and planetary views.

OK thats it for now, Im going to do some cleaning. Hope you enjoyed the pics

Philj

[lunator]

Phil

Very nice

It looks good

Cheers

Ian

[F15Rules]

Hi Phil,

That's a truly beautiful scope and looks to be in fabulous condition..and that MOUNT!! It looks like it would hold me Beast (the AE frac!!LOL)...you must be chuffed to bits with it...

Tell me, how did you manage to smuggle yourself outside at 6am on a Sunday morning??? I gotta know THAT secret!!!

[Tony.S]

Thats a lovely looking bit of kit

[AndyH]

Know wot Phil ?

That mount suits the tripod.

Very pleasing to the eye.

Look forward to reading about it's first light.

Cheers,

Andy.

[philj]

Thanks again folks glad you like the pics. I have been playing with it all again today and made a bracket so the scope fits on an old Gitzo heavy duty altaz I modified agaes ago, this then sits on a vintage ash tripod, it works but is a bit shaky. Even though the scope isnt that heavy its loooong especially with the terrestial eyepiece tube which is all of 2ft long.

This is now my major project I want to get a period type tripod and mount somehow so I may just be buying some brass and new hacksaw blades soon:D

Dave, sneeking out at all times of the night / early morning when clear skies are forecast without disturbing the other half becomes second nature after 35 years of marriage:D:D so 0600 was a doddle;)

Philj

[philj]

OK so after a bit of research and info from other folks, teh mystery mount may have just given up its history. It is very similar in details to a T Cooke and Sons Hull Portable Equatorial Mount of circa 1886, see illustration from 1886 TC catalogue.

I reckon its their pier mount version of the mount due to the separate cast iron plate on the base for levelling and the spirit levels.

Wow!

[philj]

It seems strange writing a 1st light report on equipment with an average age of 100 years but here goes a few notes from last night:

The moon was 1st quarter and very high, therefore observing with no diagonal facility was going to be a little awkward, but hey, the astronomers of yesteryear had to observe this way so this was going to be an authentic observing session. I fitted the mount onto the CGE tripod and mounted the scope.

A few cushions on the ground and an observing chair at its lowest made life slightly more comfortable

The scope came complete with a set of RAS eyepieces of various focal lengths and a previous owner had provided a key to the magnifications achievable with them

Finer - 6x

T.E. - 20x

A.F.1. - 25x

A.F.2. - 110x

A.F.3. - 120x

After a few observations with these eyepieces I was not quite convinced as to the accuracy of this key so a little investigation is required on this.

With TES eyepiece to give a possible 20x the terminator on the moon was very sharp and clearly defined in the centre of the FOV but getting softer towards the edge of field with some colour creeping in.

Not having an RAS to 1 ¼” adapter I hand held my 24mm Vixen Lanthanum ep to the draw tube as an experiment and all colour and softness disappeared, the image was striking in its clarity and lack of colour. I subsequently tried other RAS eps with the same problem therefore it was the RAS eyepieces that were letting things down slightly. However I pressed on and used the RAS eyepieces for the rest of the session.

The mount was rock solid with just a little backlash in the RA which was adjusted out by tightening the worm spring tensioner. After that I could not fault the mount, basic but solid and easy to use. Even though the declination had no slow motion controls I found it easy to control by adjusting the locking screw to provide enough resistance to allow push control with just a little pressure applied to the eyepiece end of the scope.

Using the AF1 eyepiece; the most striking thing I found was the sight of the Apennine Valley, this was very contrasty and sharply defined. Also the peak of Mount Pico nearby was just catching the light shining like a beacon in the terminator shadow, the contrast in the scope gave the effect of the peak floating in the shadow.

Trying the “Finer” eyepiece fitted the complete moon in the field of view easily but there was a great deal of colour evident therefore I chose not to use this eyepiece much for this session.

Higinus Crater was clearly discerned with the Rille very pronounced as a thin crisp black line. The dusky markings of the Mare around the Higinus region was very striking. The Rille could be followed easily right into Mare Vapourum using the AF2 eyepiece and was that Higinus F crater I could see? Not sure because my neck was aching then.

OK so how does the scope perform on DSOs? This is not a DSO scope nor was it the best night due to the high and bright moon but I just had to try a few.

The Pleiades central 4 main stars just fitted in the field of the Finer eyepiece but the FOV of the TE eyepiece was just too small to appreciate the cluster.

A quick look at M42 and the AF1 eyepiece showed all 4 main components of the trapezium very sharply. The focuser on this scope is very smooth and precise even after 90+ years, testament to the craftsmen who built it. The fishes mouth was clearly defined but conditions did not really allow fainter nebulosity to be viewed.

The Perseus Double Cluster fitted nicely into the FOV of the Finer eyepiece but the view was nothing special. However the AF1 provided a much more pleasing view.

Alcor Mizar, you could drive a bus through the gaps between components:D

By this time I was suffering from the cold and was tiring quickly (got a few health problems at the moment) so I decided 2 hours was enough and I needed a rest.

Conclusion

The 1st clear nights observing with any scope is always special but what made this one extra special was the chance to use astronomical equipment of an average age of 100 years. My hat is off to the craftsmen that made this equipment because it performed far better than I expected.

The scope is only let down by the old RAS eyepieces. The doublet objective in my opinion is on a par with the quality I have experienced using the 50 years junior Towa 339. I have an RAS to 1 ¼” adapter being made at the moment therefore I hope to back this claim up with some more testing.

The mount, well its basic and only has slow motion controls on the RA but its solid and performs perfectly, I couldn’t fault it.

Phil

[F15Rules]

Phil

That's a great first light report on your new scope, many congratulations!! Just think you only got that as SWMBO "made" you go to that auction:D..maybe you should start doing that every week?? (fast track to bankruptcy, I know!).

Yes, those old guys knew how to built stuff, and that lens looks just like new. Once you can use your "proper" eyepieces with your new adapter the views should be amazing.

Can you post a picture of the adapter as soon as you have it? I may be interested in getting one like it done, if it is slim enough..my AE frac has a rather bulky one which I reckon loses me a good inch of back focus, so it makes it impossible to use a diagonal with anything other than my 32mm plossl - but I think another inch would make the difference..

great report, thanks:hello2:

Dave

[Peter Drew]

Nice "first light?" report Philj. I still have a brass 3" F15 refractor by Davies of Cheltenham engraved on the backplate and mounted on a pillar and claw mounting might be worth a session as a comparison. The tube is of seamed construction and probably predates your instrument.

[philj]

Oh that sounds nice Peter, any chance of a pic or 2?

The mount that came with the BC is too heavy and big for displaying in teh house so I am after a tripod and altaz of the day or even the pillar and claw. I was going to make something up but it really needs something contemporary.

If you are near Derby / Burton On Trent we can try your scope on my mount and have a comparison session as you suggest.

Cheers

Phil

[Brass n glass]

Very nice buy Philj. The mount is similar to one that was supplied for their astro refractors by Watson and Sons. Their main business was making microscopes, but they also made refractors up to 5 inches from about 1890 to 1940. Their 1905 catalogue has a picture of a mount similar to yours on a pier with a box housing for the clockwork drive. I've no idea if they made the mounts; all the old companies supplied equipment to each other - Hugh