Why is Mars such a *&"$(&! ?

[BrownClaw]

Historically we're told that hundreds of years ago, astronomers were studying Mars; mistaking details for canals, mapping it out, etc etc.

With the massive increase in optical technology since those early days, then, HOW COME IT'S STILL A PAIN IN THE "£$*(&? TO GET A DECENT VIEW OF IT?

I know Jupiter is bigger, but it's a lot further away; how come Jupiter is so easy to see detail on compared to Mars?

It's our closest planet. It's been mapped a long time ago by people without big observatories. But I keep reading how difficult it is to get good seeing with Mars.

Is it the current location that's the problem? Is it likely to get better later in the year? Or is Mars just being obstinate?

[brianb]

I know Jupiter is bigger, but it's a lot further away; how come Jupiter is so easy to see detail on compared to Mars?

It's 20 times bigger than Mars, and less than 10 times further away ... in fact, only four times, on average. And Mars is well placed for only a few weeks every other year, whereas Jupiter is well placed for a few months most years.

The miracle is that the pre-space-probe observations of Mars were as good as they were.

[BrownClaw]

Ahh, fair enough, I should have checked my numbers

Yeah, you're right; I suppose we've been spoiled by the quality of those early efforts

[Ibbo!]

Like all objects it needs practice

the more you look the more you see and the more chance you have of getting the fleeting moment of good seeing

you eye literally to get your eye in

Steve

[Space Bat]

I have got lovely views of mars with lots of detail - however these have been brief glimpses in a wash of poor seeing.

Chris

[russ]

Mars perhaps demands more patience than the other major planets but it does reward any effort. I find it fascinating to look from a far at another world that is a bit like ours rather than one of the gas giants.

There's been some good seeing in the last few weeks and plenty to see. Plus Mars will take a lot more magnification than Jupiter has been able to take the last few years. This helps increase the image scale somewhat. Mars really comes alive at 250x+ if the seeing and scope will allow.

I'm biased it has to be said, l'm very much a fan of Mars observing.

Russ

[BrownClaw]

Thanks; I must admit that my standard 10mm EP & Barlow isn't really up to much. Perhaps when my new 5mm eyepiece arrives I might be in with a better chance. I'll definitely persevere!

[russ]

Mars will be a tad small at 130x but you should get a glimpse of the polar cap and darkest markings.

The max limit for your scope is 255x (50x per inch), which equates more or less to your new 5mm and the barlow. Just for a laugh give that combo a try. There's nothing to loose. I pushed my ED80 to 200x back in December and even back then that was enough to see some features. It was a bit dim. But this hobby is all about experiment and anything is worth a go.

Russ

[BrownClaw]

Definitely. Even with the 10mm EP and the Barlow, using the focusser was like trying to use The Force.

[barkis]

An excerpt from an article about times when Mars got close to earth close to Earth. This was August 27th. 2003.

I was at Dalby Forest Starfest during this period, and sampling various views in different scopes.

One such experience, was looking through a 4.5" reflector at f8 with selection of filters, and the views of the planet were extaordinarily good. An exceptional set of circumstances I admit, everything was favourable, and may not occur again, but similar, if not as good will come around, and you have to take the opportunity when it does.

Ron.

The Red Planet is about to be spectacular!

This month and next, Earth is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The next time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter's gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only be certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last 5,000 years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens again.

The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to within 34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the brightest object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of - 2.9 and will appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye .

Mars will be easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east at 10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.

By the end of August when the two planets are closest , Mars will rise at nightfall and reach its highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That's pretty convenient to see something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So, mark your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow progressively brighter and brighter throughout the month.

Share this with your children and grandchildren.

NO ONE ALIVE TODAY WILL EVER SEE THIS AGAIN

[russ]

Definitely. Even with the 10mm EP and the Barlow, using the focusser was like trying to use The Force.

Is the focuser a bit of a pain to use? There's some tutorials around the web for stripping down the focusers and replacing the grease with a good quality lithium grease. Should make it smoother.

Also, I think the Skywatcher Autofocus unit fits your scope and this transforms planetary viewing. The focus is done with a hand paddle, so don't touch the scope. And the focus motor has enough torque to focus smoothly. That way you have a chance of getting a good focus with no jiggles.

[BrownClaw]

Oh, really??!? I haven't heard of any of that stuff!

Yeah, the problem is that with the 10mm and x2, the optimal focus is SO small that it's the easiest thing in the world to try and adjust and either go over or under. The manual focusser isn't the smoothest thing in the world and as you mentioned, causes massive wobble at high mag which isn't conducive to focussing when you're looking at a streak of red light moving back and forth! Thanks for the heads up!

[DavidB]

So when will be the best time and date to study Mars in 2010?

I have just upgraded my EPs in the hope of getting a better view. I must admit I thought you just pointed and "saw". Didn't realise you need to watch for some time in order to get a few seconds/minutes of polar caps etc. By the way, please can someone make the snow, minus temperatures and clouds go away.

David B

[DavidB]

Forgot to mention. Astronomers in the past did not have to put up with street lights, fluorated hydrocarbons in the atmosphere, carbon dioxide, space detritus etc. Human technology is making better and cheaper telescopes but balancing this is the grot in the air. Will now step down from soapbox and wait for the virtual rotten eggs and squashed tomatoes that might be aimed in my direction:D

[russ]

Best time is from now really, any chance you can. The features on Mars are subtle and the eyes need time to adjust. A quick glance at the eyepiece may reveal the polar cap, as that is most obvious but the dark markings are the bits that need patience.

Russ

[russ]

Oh, really??!? I haven't heard of any of that stuff!

Yeah, the problem is that with the 10mm and x2, the optimal focus is SO small that it's the easiest thing in the world to try and adjust and either go over or under. The manual focusser isn't the smoothest thing in the world and as you mentioned, causes massive wobble at high mag which isn't conducive to focussing when you're looking at a streak of red light moving back and forth! Thanks for the heads up!

This is the Autofocus unit:

Misc’ - SkyWatcher Auto Focuser

Worryingly it doesn't mention the 130P as a supported model. But reading the specs for the 130P AZ Goto and looking at a pic, that model has the bog standard 2" Rack & Pinion focuser which definitely accepts the Autofocus. Have a chat with Steve, i'd be surprised if doesn't fit. It would be the most worthwhile upgrade to your scope.

[Ibbo!]

I found that a bit of sketching helps concentrate the eye

LP should not stop you seeing Mars and planets(unlike deep sky) but darker skies help

Mars best this month and next

will be at its best/biggest end of Jan

Steve

[BrownClaw]

This is the Autofocus unit:

Misc’ - SkyWatcher Auto Focuser

Worryingly it doesn't mention the 130P as a supported model. But reading the specs for the 130P AZ Goto and looking at a pic, that model has the bog standard 2" Rack & Pinion focuser which definitely accepts the Autofocus. Have a chat with Steve, i'd be surprised if doesn't fit. It would be the most worthwhile upgrade to your scope.

Excellent, thanks very much for that.

The SW130P definitely has the 2" focuser, yeah; I currently use a 1.25" eyepiece holder in that but it's easy to swap out. I haven't checked your link yet; does that mean that to use the autofocuser I'd need to use 2" EP's in it? Actually I'd better read your link before asking

EDIT: Ahhh, I see, it just attaches to the rack. Excellent! Why do I keep spending money like this?

[russ]

I think (hope) you'll find that transforms the way the scope works. I have one for my 8" Skywatcher dob for when it's on the EQ5. Not touching the tube makes a huge difference.

Sorry for spending more of your money.....actually while you're at it you could order the Zeiss Abbe Orthoscopic eyepiece set....a mere $1180. Really nail those planetary views

[BrownClaw]

I think (hope) you'll find that transforms the way the scope works. I have one for my 8" Skywatcher dob for when it's on the EQ5. Not touching the tube makes a huge difference.

Sorry for spending more of your money.....actually while you're at it you could order the Zeiss Abbe Orthoscopic eyepiece set....a mere $1180. Really nail those planetary views

LOL. I just ordered an eyepiece for £80 and a filter for £70, that's about the limit of spending in one go I can get away with with Wife Central at the moment

[yeti monster]

Was it only as recent as 2003? I remember using my Prinz 86mm reflector to view it. I honestly thought it was earlier than that.

[brianb]

Astronomers in the past did not have to put up with street lights, fluorated hydrocarbons in the atmosphere, carbon dioxide, space detritus etc. Human technology is making better and cheaper telescopes but balancing this is the grot in the air.

Ummm, the air in the UK is generally cleaner than it was 40 years ago when most heating was coal fires & half metre visibility smogs were far from unknown. Rising CO2 levels may be causing problems but direct impact on astronomy is negligible ... the most problematic change in increase in jet transport bringing more thin high level cloud, derived from contrails.

Mars (and other bright planets) can be seen perfectly well with very large amounts of light pollution; the best view I've had of Mars in the last few months was actually made with the sun above the horizon ...

[barkis]

A light fog can be indicative of a steady atmosphere , and planetary views can be very good indeed under such conditions.

Ron.

[TheThing]

An excerpt from an article about times when Mars got close to earth close to Earth. This was August 27th. 2003.

It was this exact event that got me interested in astronomy. A cahnce remark on a car forum I used to belong to about the whole event and it being 'the only time you could see Mars' (seriously!) got me looking into and reading more about it. Then a scope then downhill from there!

I've had a pretty good view of Mars low in the east in mid-December so far. Going from memory, it's best placed around 20th/21st of this month, but anytime there is a clear sky get out and view it!

[DavidB]

Thanks for the info. on Mars viewing. Never thought of looking in daytime or mist. As to coal fires etc. I was thinking of the astronomers in the eighteenth century who would presumably not had smog to contend with either.

Hope BrownClaw found these posts as useful as I did. Have learnt so much since joining Stargazer's Lounge and still on the steepest part of the learning curve.

DavidB