£1000 to spend on a scope - any help or advice most welcome!

[Astro Adj]

Hi all,

After selling my car in order to buy something more practical (i.e. something the baby can fit in!) and buying a 'sensible' car I find myself in the happy position that I have £1000 to spend on a new scope. Woohoo!

The initial euphoria abated when I realised that I really didn't know what to go for. This scope will need to last a long time, and I've not really been observing long enough to have acquired enough experience to make a truly informed decision. So, I was hoping you lovely ladies and gents could assist me? Also, my budget is for the scope and mount - although I have an EQ2 I somehow doubt it will be up to supporting my next OTA!

I realise that the right scope will depend on several factors, so thought I'd list my preferences and dislikes to see if it helps make a decision easier.

First up, I really enjoy learning the night sky and discovering an object myself. I've never had a GOTO system and, to be honest, think I'd rather spend the cash on better optics. Second, although I've dabbled in astrophotography, I can't see myself getting into it seriously. Having said that, a scope that allows me to track my targets would be nice.

In terms of dislikes, I've found using the motor drive on my EQ2 a bit of a pain. Despite my best efforts to set it up correctly (balanced scope, accurately aligned it, used a spirit level to ensure the mount was level etc) I've never been able to keep an object in the FOV for long at all, even at low magnifications. I've also found storing the scope to be a little bit inconvenient. It's not so much the size, more the fact I have to dismantle it after each session and store the mount, tripod and OTA separately.

I mainly observe from home now, and my garden has a limiting magnitude of around 4.5. Transporting the scope is not too much of an issue as my new car has an enormous boot, but I would need to be able to carry the scope myself. As such if any individual component weighs more than about 25kg it might be a little awkward.

Finally, what do I like to observe? With my current scope I've spent most of my time looking at Jupiter, the moon and a variety of clusters. With the new scope I think I'd like to observe DSOs more than I currently do, but I would still like to get decent views of the planets.

I think that's about it - but do let me know if there's any more info I can provide that will help to identify the 'right' scope for me.

So far I've been drawn to a truss tube dob, as they seem to offer the best performance for the money. The fact they take up relatively little space when not in use is a bonus too. Specifically, I like the look of the Skywatcher 300P Flex tube Auto. Big aperture, tracking and reasonably portable.

One last thing - do scopes tend to come down in price in the January sales? Just wondering if FLO and maybe Scopes 'n' Skies / Pulsar Optical (they are not too far from me) might discount some scopes that would give me a few new options!

Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions!

[Doc]

I think you do not really need our help....

A 300P would be perect for you..

That would be my first choice, it ticks all the boxes.

[Astro Adj]

Thanks for the reply!

It does seem to be an excellent scope, but I wanted to check that I'd not overlooked any other options. The other scope that caught my eye was the Orion SkyQuestXX12i, this is out of my budget (unless it drops by £200 or so in the January sales!) but seems very well made.

I was also wondering about collimation on these scopes - should I factor a decent laser collimator into my budget?

[Chris H]

If you like the xx12i then why not go for the xt10i? I moved up from a 130p to to a 10inch dob and the views have been amazing in comparison. Then with the money left over get yourself a really nice eyepiece to use in, its f4.7 so you'll need something good to get the most from the scope. As for collimation I use a cheshire eyepiece.

[John]

One point I would make is not to spend your whole budget on the scope. Your signature lists some eyepieces but not the type / quality. If you go for a large, fast dobsonian you may well soon want some nice eyepieces to make the best of it. Personally I'd be splitting the budget 60/40 - with the smaller proportion put aside to cover some nice eyepieces and some other additions to make the best of your new scope.

John

[Astro_Baby]

I agree - keep some aside for decent EPs. You can pass on a laser collimator and just get a Cheshire instead which will be every bit as accurate.

EPs are intensely personal but if I were buying now I'd for sure look at the Nirvanas - I dont think there will be deals in January and remember VAT goes up to 17.5% in January as well so costs may go up. I;d look to get all the kit from one dealer and see if you can get a good deal OR get just the cope now and keep some aside when you decide what EPs you want.

[Phil Fargaze]

Don`t hold your breath for any January sales though, VAT is going up in the new year. Sorry I`ve just echoed Astro-babys comments on vat

[Neil27]

As others have mentioned maybe curtail the money to something like this:

Skyliner 250PX Flex Tube Auto Tracking DobsonianTelescopes | Rother Valley Optics

Still leaves around 250, for eyepieces, barlows, filters etc.

Seems a good scope, big aperture, goto, will be reasonably ok to transport.

[Astro Adj]

Thanks so much for the advice everyone. Splitting my budget is something I need to give some thought to. I also need to start planning what EPs I'll need; are the ones that come packaged with the 250P / 300P decent or would I be better planning to buy a complete set?

Out of my current collection only 2 are half-decent - the 20mm is a Williams Optics SWAN model, and the 6mm is a Skywatcher deluxe wide-angle EP. The 10mm and 25mm are the basic EPs that come with the 130PM package, as is my 2x barlow. As such I think they'll all need replacing, and I've also read that I'll need an OIII filter for good DSO viewing.

I suppose I need to decide whether to get a smaller scope with all the accessories at once, or get a bigger scope and upgrade my EPs gradually over the coming months.

Thanks for the heads up regarding the January sales too. Good point re the VAT increase. My Mum and sister are coming to visit for boxing day and I'd love to have the scope here by then as I think they'd really get a kick out of it. I was holding off because I didn't want to find out the scope I bought was hundreds of pounds a week later but perhaps I was worried unnecessarily!

Ideally I'd like to have a go on both the 250 and 300. Perhaps I'll find out what time The Astronomy Centre in Ely closes - if I'm lucky there might be dark skies by then.

Thanks again for all the helpful replies - it's given me lots to think about.

[vlebo]

Personally I would go for the larger aperture (300p) and use the eyepieces you have for now and just get out there and enjoy what you see . Later on start looking to add to your eyepice collection as you go along but I think you will be glad you opted for the larger scope to start off with.

[acey]

I'm a happy owner of a 300P so can offer some input about that scope.

First up, I really enjoy learning the night sky and discovering an object myself. I've never had a GOTO system and, to be honest, think I'd rather spend the cash on better optics.

So why get the Auto? The base of the 300P is a heavy thing to lug around and with the Auto it must be even heavier.

I mainly observe from home now, and my garden has a limiting magnitude of around 4.5. Transporting the scope is not too much of an issue as my new car has an enormous boot, but I would need to be able to carry the scope myself. As such if any individual component weighs more than about 25kg it might be a little awkward.

My garden also has a 4.5 limit, which I consider unacceptable for deep-sky viewing (sure I can see M42, M81 etc, but they're a sad imitation of what they ought to be). I always drive to a dark site, and I find the Flextube perfect for this. Tube in the boot, base on the back seat (check your doors, not your boot - I have to angle the base a bit to get it through the rear door, and need to move the front seat forwards to accomodate it).

With the new scope I think I'd like to observe DSOs more than I currently do, but I would still like to get decent views of the planets.

I upgraded from an 8-inch to the Flextube because I'm pretty much exclusively a galaxy observer, and with DSO's aperture is everything. I find planetary views with the Flextube no better than with the 8-inch Orion SkyQuest, and if anything, slightly inferior (the Flextube has light-scattering issues, even with a light shroud at a dark site - visible as bright diffraction spikes round stars, and some loss of contrast on planets). Some time I'll deal properly with baffling - I think a significant issue is probably the edge of the secondary mirror which contributes unwanted light at the eyepiece. For DSO work this is all largely irrelevant (which is why I haven't done anything about it after a year of owning the scope). But for planets I'd say the Flextube is OK, not brilliant.

Regarding eyepieces, I use TeleVue Plossls, and for my sort of work they're all I need.

In summary, it's a fantastic scope for the dedicated deep-sky observer. But if you're going to be spending a lot of observing time looking at planets from your back garden then an 8-inch solid tube with longer focal length (i.e. f6) might be better. I used my 8-inch for years, driving it to dark sites for deep sky or in the garden for planets, and it was the right size for a quick peek when that was all I wanted. I could carry the whole scope - tube and base - with one hand. Setting up the 12-inch takes that bit longer because you've got to move both bits separately - and you can't just move it across the garden in a jiffy when Jupiter goes behind someone's tree, like you can with an 8-inch dob.

Oh yes, collimation. I collimated my 8-inch primary a few times a year and that was enough, even with all the transport it got to dark skies. With the 12-inch I do full collimation every time I use it. Only takes a couple of minutes - laser for the secondary and Cheshire for the primary. Then realign the finder. Not a big job, but it adds that little bit more to the set-up procedure. The Flextube holds its collimation well, but I invariably find that the secondary is slightly out when I set it up, and if I didn't sort it every time it would presumably slip farther and farther.

And if I were only getting one collimation tool then it would be the Cheshire.

[Astro Adj]

Thanks again for the replies - I really appreciate everyones' time an effort!

The reason I quite fancy the Auto version is that I spend a fair bit of time observing with family and friends and like the idea of getting an object in the FOV, then being able to let them admire it without having to jump in and re-centre the object. Also, I have got a rudimentary afocal camera set-up (max 60 sec exposures) and although I've only used it on the moon to date I may want to give some of the brighter DSOs a try sometime in the future. Because I will be shot at dawn if I get another scope for a long time I want to ensure this next one will suit me long term.

I'll check the car, hopefully it'll be okay. With any luck I'll be able to get it all in the boot (the rear seats fold flat and also back on themselves until they are lying against the back of the front seats - handy!) but I'll check the rear door access too.

Interesting that you had a SkyQuest too. The XX12i looks to be very robust, but other than that it seems I would lose tracking in exchange for an object location system. Do you know if they also suffer from the light-scattering issues? Are there any other pros/cons of either system?

Interesting point re light-scattering on the 300P. Although I'll mostly be observing DSOs I do like to look at the planets too. Are there any filters I could pick up that might help mitigate the issue?

Thanks again for the really detailed reply - I am now of to learn more about baffling, collimation and the size of my car!

[acey]

Interesting that you had a SkyQuest too. The XX12i looks to be very robust, but other than that it seems I would lose tracking in exchange for an object location system. Do you know if they also suffer from the light-scattering issues? Are there any other pros/cons of either system?

Interesting point re light-scattering on the 300P. Although I'll mostly be observing DSOs I do like to look at the planets too. Are there any filters I could pick up that might help mitigate the issue?

My SkyQuest was a solid-tube 8-inch, an early model (around 2000). It had issues of its own, but I find light-scattering much more marked in the 300P. I think there are various reasons for this, which should be fixable, though not using a filter. The issue is unwanted light at the eyepiece, and since it's the same sort of light as the stuff you want, you can't filter it.

The standard approach is baffling, and I plan on getting round to this. I'll start by trying a circular baffle on the end of the focuser tube - a 2-inch focusser is a big light-window, and I only ever use 1.25" eyepieces. Then flocking on the part of the tube that's visible from the eyepiece. Then flocking over the edge of the secondary, which is big and prominent. A more matt finish on the spider might help a bit too. Actually the first thing I'll do is put some flocking inside the visible part of my dewshield because that will be the simplest job and could well make a serious difference.

But as I say, I haven't felt the need so far as I'm a DSO fan, and the dark-site deep-sky views I get with the 300P are everything I hoped for.

It looks like you really want to get it so I'd say go ahead - and I'm sure the Auto will be a useful feature.

[Astro Adj]

I see. That's really helpful and I've bookmarked this thread in case I ever need to start baffling.

Sorry for yet another question, but I noticed you mentioned you use 1.25" EPs exclusively. I was wondering if there are any benefits of using a 2" EP when compared to a 1.25" of the same focal length? If possible I'd like to stick to 1.25" also, so that if I do invest in some filters they will fit all EPs in my collection.

Thanks again for your help - I may end up going shopping over the weekend!

[Brunty12345]

you can either choose to buy 1.25" filters or 2", if you choose a 2" filter it will fit all the 2" ep's same applies to the 1.25" (i think this is what you wanted to know) and i think the 2" will just give better contrast and so on

[pvaz]

I see. That's really helpful and I've bookmarked this thread in case I ever need to start baffling.

Sorry for yet another question, but I noticed you mentioned you use 1.25" EPs exclusively. I was wondering if there are any benefits of using a 2" EP when compared to a 1.25" of the same focal length? If possible I'd like to stick to 1.25" also, so that if I do invest in some filters they will fit all EPs in my collection.

Thanks again for your help - I may end up going shopping over the weekend!

If you buy 2" filters they can be used directly on the 2" EPs or with the 1,25" EPs by using a 2" to 1.25" adapter with filter threads.

I bought this one:

Antares 2" to 1.25" Twist-Lock Centering Eyepiece Adapter

There are good quality EPs in both sizes but the widefield low mag ones, above 25mm, usually come in 2" size.

[acey]

I was wondering if there are any benefits of using a 2" EP when compared to a 1.25" of the same focal length?

You can get a wider FOV with 2". Since I'm usually only interested in small objects in the centre of field I'm happy with 1.25" Plossls.

[brantuk]

I got the 300p flextube only 6 weeks ago and delighted with it. I'm saving for better eyepieces but the supplied ones are quite good for general viewing and will keep me going for a while yet. Collected in two large boxes, they omly just fit in the back of a Volvo Estate. Needs collimation periodically but will hold fine for several sessions if set up and handled right.

The tracking is a smashing benefit but will need a powerpack - Maplins have a reasonable 17ah one at a very reasonable price. It also has an inverter and you can blow up airbeds with it if camping.

There's a good review of it in SAN Aug 2009. If budgeting for the other bits is an issue you can allways go for the 10" version (reviewed in AN sam month).

[Moonshane]

hi there

I am no expert (in fact I would describe myself as a complete novice) so please bear this in mind when you consider my comments.

The advice given so far is all excellent and I agree with the far more experienced members. BUT why not HAVE the best of both worlds?

If you went for the 300 flextube manual version, you could also afford the Celestron OMNI 120mm refractor (about £270 with a 1.75" tube tripod and CG-4 mount and what I consider to be an excellent 25mm eyepiece as standard) which would give you an excellent scope for double stars and planets. As I see it this would give you options depending on how you feel and also allow one of your mates to use a scope themselves which could easily be tracked using the slowmo controls if they are using the refractor.

Just a thought and depends on storage etc. you can always make a box and store in the loft! Maybe your wife (etc) might even join you and use the refractor

cheers!

Shane

[Astro Adj]

Thanks again for the help everyone, and for clarifying the options regarding 1.25" and 2" EPs. I think I'll stick to 1.25", as the biggest focal length I could use with my scope is around 32mm. Anything more than that would produce an exit pupil that is too large I think.

Paolo - thanks for the suggestion. I checked it out and was very impressed with the site - even with insured shipping to the UK the prices are very reasonable. Some nice EPs in stock too...

Branktuk - thanks for the input - nice to hear from another owner of the scope. Annoyingly I had that issue but seem to have misplaced it. Still, I remember enough of it to recall they thought highly of the scope. I was looking at the SW 17Ah powerpack, but it's quite costly. I tried searching the Maplin website but couldn't find the one you referred to. Any chance of pointing me in the right direction? :-)

Shane - I think you are being a little modest when you say you know nothing! A very good suggestion and one I'd not considered. I've never looked at refractors - not sure why tbh, but I guess I've turned into an aperture addict. The only problem is the additional storage space, as I have to disassemble my scope after each session. Currently this means my OTA, mount and tripod are all hidden in different parts of the bedroom. Bit annoying when it comes to assembling it all again! The appeal of the 300P was that I could just fold it down and plonk it in a corner, but if I had another scope I'd be back to hide-and-seek with my parts!

[Moonshane]

but if I had another scope I'd be back to hide-and-seek with my parts!

ha ha - amazing what you have to do to convince the wife eh?

go on then, I admit I know a BIT but nothing compared to the other guys. my scope's great though (refractor) and I find it more user friendly overall than even the 6 inch newt on a CG4. that said, my next purchase (when I have saved up) is a used large dob. if you start getting grief about the large dustbin in the corner of the dining room, do let me know!!

[brantuk]

Hi Astro - sure - it's called "5 in 1 Jump Starter" - here's the link:

Heavy-Duty 5-in-1 Jump Starter : Gadgets & Gizmos : Maplin

[johninderby]

Just a note on the Flextube Auto dob and a power supply. It uses only a small fraction of the power needed for an EQ mount or an ALT-AZ (Celestron 6SE etc.) and I've found a 3 amp 12v gel cell powers it for a long, long time. Remember that a regular dob when balanced properly can be moved around with just a fingertip and hence it takes very little power to move it.

John

[Astro Adj]

Shane - yes indeed. I don't see what's wrong with having my scope on display, and most people who've seen it ask questions and seem genuinely interested. But then again it does dominate the room, and I suppose I'd not be too pleased if my wife decided to position a 5ft model of a shoe in plain view. I'm sure if I can just get her to look at something through the scope I'll be fine, but she's steadfast in her resolution not to get within 6ft of the eyepiece. Doh.

Brantuk - thanks very much! I'd seen a couple of these on various websites but didn't realise they could be used to power the scope. Think the clamps scared me off!

John - thanks for the tip. I only tend to observe for a maximum of 2 hours so that might be a good solution.

I've been in touch with the closest trader to me, but unfortunately they have no stock of the 300P auto currently. Apparently it only takes a day or so to order it though, so with any luck I should be able to have a good look at one sometime early next week. In the meantime I need to decide which accessories are essentials, and which I can leave until the new year. Unfortunately the list just seems to be getting longer!