Is it just me.......

[Darren B]

when I first heard about this, my opinon was that couldn't choose a worst year in which to do it. Mainly because of the position of the planets. Saturn rings being edge on, jupiter being low in the sky and Mars being so small at the moment. Hopefully things may pick up a bit in the Autumn.

[ronin]

It was declared the international year of astronomy by the UN. So I would expect very few of them to actually know much astronomy and most of the decisions would have been or had some political overtures as well. (Apollo ?)

Would have expected a bit more from the astronomical bodies here such as the BAA (is it BAS?), and the RAS. They however seem to be very quiet at the grass roots level. Not sure who there is after those 2. Everything is just seems to be left to the individual clubs and little support offered.

Tiny: Who wins the pig races, you or the pigs?

[661-pete]

During the days of the Apollo missions the whole world was on the edge of their seats with excitement about space and space travel, partially due the mysteriousness of it all.

Surprisingly, I didn't find this to be so, and I was around at the time. All right, we all got 'Moon fever' for Apollo 11, but interest faded before the end of the series. Apollo 12 was a non-event as far as the viewing public were concerned, due to the total absence of live TV pictures (the astronauts accidentally pointed their one and only camera at the sun - at least that's the story NASA fed us).

And then, following that little fiasco, we come to one morning early April 1970, when I distinctly remember them talking on the Today programme about the latest Apollo that had just set off, and commenting on just how blasé the public were about this and how little interest was aroused.

Of course something did happen a day or two later to that particular Apollo (13) which did re-arouse public interest, though not for the reasons NASA wanted!

The later Apollos: well the introduction of the moon rover caught some people's attention (folks love cars) but even then a lot of people ignored the whole thing.

Yes, apathy is all too easy to set in.

So what prospects have we for IYA2009? I tend to agree with the OP and other posts above. It's difficult to actually celebrate something I think, if even the seasoned astronomers aren't quite sure what they're supposed to be celebrating...

[Tiny]

Like others I must admit to being interested but not willing to stay up an watch the first steps on the moon. I had work the next day! Of course the problem with the public after that flight was that there was nothing to interest them on the moon. Not even a footstep or the odd slab left by ET. It was just another one week wonder that cost rather a lot to most. Better to get back to the soaps and the latest gossip about C grade celebs.

Since then TV has dumbed down (!).

In fact the one way to get recruits (ask any warlord in Africa or spin doctor trying to retell history) is to get 'em while they are young. After a certain age most people know their own minds but at least with school children you have a chance - as long as teacher is not one of those who tells them different and they believe teacher. (Ever heard kid telling mum off as teacher says - when teacher does not know what teacher is talking about.)

[661-pete]

As it happens, I missed the A11 live moonwalk broadcast. I had sat up for the landing itself, late in the evening: the BBC had definitely announced that according to NASA the moonwalk itself would not take place until about 7am the next morning, our time. So I duly got up at 7am and turned on the TV, only to discover that the live moonwalk was over and done with; NASA had brought it forward to about 3am our time in order to appease USA TV companies.

My father had stayed up and watched the whole thing live, but he didn't bother to wake me up. Was I mad!

[callump]

Probably its a bit early to decide whether the IYA has been a success or failure - which should really be done in the cold light of day in 2010...

And you also need to think about what the success criteria are...

However, if astronomers don't realize that this year is the IYA then certainly the message has been lacking somewhat, somewhere along the line.

Just to dispel a couple of myths...

The UN did not decide on their own that 2009 would be an International Year of Astronomy - the proposal came from the International Astronomical Union working group on the Public Understanding of Science. Once the IAU had decided on it, they made the proposal to the UN, who get tons of such proposals each year. This year was chosen because of the 400 year anniversary of Galileo's first observations, and the 40th anniversary of the moon landings. These were going to be the hooks to latch the marketing onto.

And yes, everyone knew that the planets would not be well placed for observing before deciding this would be the year - the Galileo anniversary was just too big.

Not sure which IYA website you were referring to - I think the international one International Year of Astronomy 2009 and the UK one Home are o.k. (maybe not great, but OK).

And if you look at the UK one, you will certainly find lots of IYA events running around the country - and these are just the registered ones. And they have certainly tried to keep up-to-date with twitter feeds, google calendar, etc.

Regarding funding, this has been available from the STFC - though it is a slow and involved process. There has also been funding available through the RAS, which is not quite so difficult, but still needs some preparation. The next round of RAS funding applications need to be in by august 15th - so you'll need to be quick to apply. A lot of local societies have gained funds from this.

The BAA does not seem to have much involvment with IYA - no 'champion' there... Though they will be holding a big meeting in November.

The SPA have done a 'scopes for schools' project - where they have put 1000 telescopes into schools across the country - with local astronomers helping them to use them.

Last point on going into schools and the £65 CRB check fee - if you join STEMNET and become a STEM Ambassador, they will pay the CRB fee and give you training on the school science curriculum, and on safegaurding issues. All you have to do is support a couple of events a year, and schools looking for astronomy help, have a local education group who liase on this.

Finally, I don't think IYA is about turning people onto astronmy as a hobby, its about widening peoples experience and introducing them to new things, and trying to engender an appreciation of science being a good thing.

Small events are as good as big events for doing this - so even if you just get your neighbours round to look at the moon, or set up on your street corner - you will have done your bit. If every astronomer in the UK did just that, it would have a huge effect.

/callump

[Leegsi]

I think unless your interested already people wont look any further.

I have put up a few posters and introduced them to events but had to pretty much drag them along. Once there they love it.

I am sure it will pick up as its gets near the end of the year when its darker earlier.

[narrowbandpaul]

the IYA is a joke.

I dont know of any events in Scotland for the IYA. I remember a star party being held up some hill in birmingham.

our local astro society had talked of getting a guest speaker, someone good, but that seems to have fizzed out.

ask anyone in the street about the IYA and they wont have a clue. It has been a complete non-event

so Mel, you are definately not the only. For me, as Sir Alan would say, its a load of toot.

paul

no offenece to anyone who has actually tried to encourage others. Good on you. Its not your fault. Its the IYA guys.

[Tiny]

Having looked into it a bit I must admit that I wonder how many parents, uncles, aunts are missing out on the Galileoscope as a Christmas Present for children they know. The things seems ideal as in a £20 working telescope that is made from a DIY snap together/take apart kit - ideal for children of 7 and up. Any these retail at just over £20 delivered (with prices getting less if you get more than one.)

Maybe kids are too sophisticated now but as a kid I would have loved one just to put together. (Especially as the putting is easy so even those with no natural handicraft skills - like me - could do it.)

And at the end of the day the child ends up with a real working telescope that shows the moon etc at 30x or 60x giving some good detail. Some might even use them!

Seems an ideal stocking filler to me.

[Astro_Baby]

Actually I'm not totally knocking the Galileoscope BUT even that seems like no one bothered to do any reasrach for marketing.

Kids in the UK would easily have a spend of about £45 - I have sen some stats about 5 years ago that suggested childern could raise up to £65 for a computer game (one of the console makers was interested naturally).

Why bother with a Galileoscope - they coud have done a deal withSynta and bashed out some small telescopes with inifinitely better optics and views and thereby created more interest.

My youngest was bought some chap and nasty toys r us style scope and it left him cold. A peek through my 130PM refired his interest.

The Galileoscope, if it were to be cheap should have been either a DIY kit for a few coppers being sold in newsagents and using some household materials to complete it OR should have cost under a fiver. £20 is no mans land for marketing stuff like that. To expensive as a 'suck it and see' and too cheap for anyone to believe they will be getting much more a plastic toy telescope.

Like I said - the whole thing seems to be abominably badly researched.

[Tiny]

There is a Skywatcher Galileo dobson reflector for £50.

[Beulah]

Having looked into it a bit I must admit that I wonder how many parents, uncles, aunts are missing out on the Galileoscope as a Christmas Present for children they know. The things seems ideal as in a £20 working telescope that is made from a DIY snap together/take apart kit - ideal for children of 7 and up. Any these retail at just over £20 delivered (with prices getting less if you get more than one.)

Maybe kids are too sophisticated now but as a kid I would have loved one just to put together. (Especially as the putting is easy so even those with no natural handicraft skills - like me - could do it.)

And at the end of the day the child ends up with a real working telescope that shows the moon etc at 30x or 60x giving some good detail. Some might even use them!

Seems an ideal stocking filler to me.

My scopes arrived earlier this week. The optics are very good considering the lenses inside the EPs are plastic. The glass lenses themselves are coated glass and very clear. My kids actually put the kits together themselves, although they needed a hand with the EPs. The focusser takes some getting used to, it's a little stiff (a smaller EP holder tube inside the main tube with rubber O rings for a little friction and hold focus.

Daytime the scope performs well - clear optics - I tested them last night on a couple of camera tripods, and Jupiter looks clear too - you can just about see the bands, the moons are clear too - pretty much what you'd expect to see through a 26mm EP. Hard to get used to the wobble when you are looking for the objects, a camera tripod isn't the ideal support, but it's cheap and quick.

We already have a small refractor in the house - but these scopes are also ideal for hiking up hills and birdwatching - they are incredibly light.

All in all, a great starter scope.

[ronin]

I think that there is very little "input" from the various organisations down to the "people" level.

Seems to be RAS, BAA, SPA (others?) who operate as bodies, then a wall, then the local Astro societies. Clubs are not affiliated to the bodies mentioned. So there is a loss of communication and contact.

The RAS are allocating money in mid August. Thats over 2/3 of the way through they year. Bit late?

Clubs seem to be "closed", either you are a member and are in, or you are not and excluded. I see very few places that have regular viewing nights and all are welcome with or without a scope.

Are forums like this actually helpful? We sit at home, log on and talk astronomy, guessing a significant number are not club members. When a person asks advice it is almost guaranteed that they will get several points of view and some quite heated views. How many say Hello then are never heard of again.

Mentioning a goto is almost bound to get several derogitory comments. Kids however are user to a computer and really they cannot understand what the problem is. Also there isn't a little man turning a wheel on the scopes in Hawaii and the Canary Isles. How about this: If you have a problem with a computerised scope submit your opinions to this web site without using a computer. That includes the pretty powerful chip in your mobile phone.

A big event is 30 astronomers meeting up in a field. Other parts of the world that is common every month whether or not you are a member, but those meetings have the backing and support of bodies that have a greater input. Anyone visiting Victoria, Canada? Then pay a visit to the observatory there on any of the monthly meets. You don't need a scope someone will offer you a look. Enjoy the coffee and food that they have. Half the people will not be "club" members and no one cares. Ask Warthog what happens in his neck of the woods.

I see several instances of an exhibition of something being organised with the IYA logo but it is a museum or exhibition center doing it. Is this a case of the museum managing to get a bit more money.

Mel, what is Adur doing for IYA ?

[DaveS]

RE: Sidewalk...anyone remember the San Fransisco Sidewalk Astronomers? Don't know if they're still going, used to be big in S&T back in the day...used big dobs as I recall.

I wonder how many people actually see the stars? with the marching morons crying out for ever brighter street lights and insecurity lights. And they don't even raise their eyes off the pavement, can't really, what with dragging their knuckles along it.

end rant/

Dave

[callump]

"The RAS are allocating money in mid August. Thats over 2/3 of the way through they year. Bit late?"

this is their third round of funding for IYA events.

The FAS was involved with the working group, and circulated all the info available down to the local societies, that are their members. So most of the local societies knew what it was all about. There has been a lot of gentle encouragement to societies to organise events for IYA - but its not possible to make volunteer organisations do more than they can.

"Clubs are closed" - many clubs organise open observing evenings. At our club if someone interested in astronomy approaches us we'd welcome them along to our observing evenings, but at some point you kinda expect them to join - to support the people that are actually organising and in some cases paying for the event to happen.

/callump

[Guest]

I would agree here. SGL is just as navel gazing as many clubs. If you are part of the in set then you get comments, if not?

However as with anything you get out of IYA what you put in. The complaints we hear here are because the people are are disconnected from the rest of the system. As callum says the FAS had input, the SPA have done a lot. I would agree about the BAA but then public out reach is not really what they do. I agree with many comments about clubs but there is a lot of throwing the baby out with the bath water that goes on around here. If you want to have your own small pond then fine but if you want to see what the wide world does then you need to have at least a few connections with it.

[Starflyer]

I've been involved in many of the IYA events that my local society has held this year, here's a list of the events. I think we're doing our part to spread the word

In my experience it's been a great success so far, the society's membership has grown this year from ~60 to over 100 members, with turn out to the monthly meetings up around 25%.

Astronomy isn't the sort of hobby where you can expect to 'convert' huge numbers of people, it's very niche. Outreach / sidewalk events definitely do work, and I can wholly recommend that everyone here takes part in one if your local society holds them.

[Capricorn]

Have to say that I find that the clubs are closed as well. Seems that you have to almost fight your way in the door and prove by perseverance and a thick skin that you are going to attend and that they will eventually have to talk to you. Been to look at two and never yet has anyone actually greeted me and spent more then 10 seconds in saying hello. One didn't even manage that (didn't talk to me at all)

I read the Fed Astro pages for clubs around me, one club within reach, has the "rule" that you can attend twice as a visitor then either join or don't show up again. The problem is that the club nights are the lecture/talk nights also so you cannot go to the talks without having to join. Welcoming or what?

One person I met who was a member of a club said that after 2 years he was just getting accepted, although 2 months previously he was asked if he was a member or not by the treasurer to whom he had already paid 2 years membership money.

As to IYA, well have to say that in general I would never have heard of it had it not been for the visiting of the astronomy forums or the web site of shops for bits and pieces. To say that it is keeping a low profile is an understatement.

One question, and asked because I have seen it:

Why does a club pick a Wednesday night to hold a public star gazing session? Have they never heard of people working or school?

As an edit: Will agree with Starflyer that astronomy is a niche area and that introduces its own problems.

[Tim]

Geez, with the amount of moaning and cynical comments that has been going on in this thread i'm not surprised people are put off by astronomers.

Smiling happy people, remember?

At SGL's star party in April we had great interaction with non-astronomers, they showed interest in the kit on display, and everyone there was happy to explain as necessary, and demonstrate as appropriate. People were seeing Saturn for the first time, that's a rush that never goes away.

If you want people to come in, you have to hold the door open to them. As the most popular and fastest growing astro forum in the UK, it seems that SGL members cant be so busy "navel watching" that they have forgotten this.

The UK has a poor tradition for friendliness to outsiders, especially amongst the senior generations. It's a shame because a lot would probably like to be more friendly, but lack the confidence, or the belief that folk are actually interested in what they have to say. Those that are just plain snooty, well they deserve what they dont get.

TJ

[geoff_k]

As has already been said, astronomy like many hobbies is a niche activity.

I've certainly heard people describe it as 'boring' on more than one occasion which is sad but not unexpected in some ways.

I'm sure that people have put a lot of effort into IYA2009 but I would agree that the public impact has been minimal in some respects.

Most years there is the International Year of something or other. How many can you remember? For example, 2008 was the International Year of the Potato (seriously). Did it encourage you to eat more chips?

Geoff

[ashenlight]

If you want people to come in, you have to hold the door open to them.

TJ

This hits the nail on the head for me TJ. My small (minuscule, in fact) contribution to IYA occurred two weeks ago. I was out with the scope at half midnight, when my neighbour was putting the cat out (old cat, long story...) Anyway, I could see he was glancing over now and again, I must have looked like a right odd-ball with my red light torch head-gear, dressed up like I was in the North Pole and talking to a large tube on a tripod. So, I waved and quietly (it was late) asked him if he'd ever looked through a telescope before. He hadn't. I said if you want, pop down the side of the house and you can come and have a look at Jupiter - to my surprise (and joy!) he did! He was amazed, in awe and so grateful for me 'reaching out' as, he says, 'so many young people just don't bother with us over 50s anymore' (he's 55). This took all of 5 minutes, I explained how far Jupiter was from us, a bit about light speed and so on and pointed out the 'star' that is Jupiter to us naked eye. It was a highly fulfilling moment.

My point is, perhaps we don't have to just rely on the big people - astronomy clubs, societies etc - to sort out IYA for us. Reaching out to people immediately around you can be so rewarding. My neighbour is still taking an interest. I hadn't posted this until now because of all the cynical pessimistic points prior to TJ's post, he gave me a way in to say this. Chicken that I am.

[lulu57]

Yup, the bloke over the road has had my 4se on semi-permanent loan since looking at Saturn in my 8se. He was really taken by it.

(But I wasn't kind enough to lend him my big scope!)

[tinvek]

whilst on the whole it does appear to have failed to light the public or the media's imagination i must admit that the local astro society (im not a member) have made an effort, earlier in the year they had a public viewing session in snowdonia and they are hoping to get permission for an astronomy night (or evening) on top of snowdon with the catchy title "one man and his Dob" also the welsh edition of the daily post has covered both, though in little depth

where this hobby falls down is that all the differing societies don't work together*. what should have been done was for a weekend of astronomy nights for the public involving all the astro societies all over the country at the same time. the BBc has been a disappointment, given their herritage in this are with the sky @ night . they did do a little psuh earlier in the year with TS@N special and a repeat of adam hart davies' program on amateur astronomers but it wasn't really pushed to the media and they could have been repeated a few times over a short period over BBC 3 & 4 the way so many other programs are

*edit. just to clear this point up, no matter how much it' s suggested they should pick a particular date, you can guarentee that various people would come up with reasons why another date is better for them rather than thinking about the total effect on the hobby which is what the IYA is about

[daz]

one club within reach, has the "rule" that you can attend twice as a visitor then either join or don't show up again. The problem is that the club nights are the lecture/talk nights also so you cannot go to the talks without having to join. Welcoming or what?

Well, as chairman of a society that has that very rule, the answer is quite simple. The speakers that travel to come and give talks cost the society money - not a lot for each talk, but it adds up. These costs have to be borne from the societies finds. Now, if you were a paid up member, how would you feel seeing new people come month after month and get the same benefits you do, but without paying?? It just gives everyone a level playing field and ensures the society has enough funds to reimburse the speakers.

One question, and asked because I have seen it:

Why does a club pick a Wednesday night to hold a public star gazing session? Have they never heard of people working or school?

As an edit: Will agree with Starflyer that astronomy is a niche area and that introduces its own problems.

You can say the same about any night, really.

And what is naval gazing? Is there a club for this? A separate board I've missed???

[lulu57]

Naval gazing is an irresistible compulsion to look at ships.