Converting summerhouse into observetory/control room to house PCs as part of multi-camera system to catch fireballs - help please.

[Leo S]

Thankfully I don't have to build the summerhouse, but I could use the guidance of more experienced members here on a number of issues.

I've also got the PCs built and the camera system tested. That side of it is pretty much ready to go. The main outstanding issues now are:

 

1. Weatherproof housings for the cameras - I'm contemplating using fairly large peli-cases (the 1550 perhaps) to house two cameras (I'll be using the Sony a7S and a7SII with Sigma Art 28/1.4 and possibly 20/1.4 lenses). I'll be starting off with 4 cameras, so 2 peli-cases.

Now I did used to have a link to a site with a number of DIY projects using peli-cases as camera housings people had posted pics of, but I've lost it. I don't suppose anyone here knows the one I mean? Either way, it's not a deal-breaker. I'm sure I can manage without it.

There are a number of sub-issues that need addressing here, like how do I get the cables in, but the main one is how do I get the cameras to point at slightly different angles, covering different sky areas (adjacent to one another). I'm thinking some kind of milled aluminum mounts designed to hold each camera at the correct angle would be best here, but no idea where to go from there really!

I have a single clear acrylic dome that I bought some time ago to test, but I'll need to find at least 3 more. I'll have to have another look what's available as it's been a while since I looked, and I can't really progress much further till I can work out if a single case can accommodate two domes/cameras.

 

2.  Getting cables into/out of the summerhouse and accommodating possible extra cameras being added in the future - I was told by the previous owners (I've just moved in) that the summerhouse is fully insulated (and has mains power). Not sure how I can get cables in and keep everything watertight, but I can probably talk to/get the previous owners (who built it) to advise/help if needed.

 

3. 12v power for the cameras  - As mentioned I'll have mains power near by, so perhaps that could be used, although I may need all of that for the PCs. I'm not sure what the summerhouse is rated for.

Alternatively, I could use 12v batteries, slightly closer to the cameras, which will have to be within <4m from the summerhouse anyway since I'm using 5m long HDMI cables, which should be about the limit for cable length with this system (4k 30fps). I suppose I'd need a solar panel or two to charge the batteries, but the best place to site that would probably be on the summerhouse (tin) roof which slants towards the SE.

 

4. Mounting and securing the peli-cases - The peli 1550 is fairly sizable case (about 53x41x21cm external dimensions - the size of a small/medium suitcase). so will need a secure mounting if it's to survive the winds here - lost a tile the other night during the storm! Mounting to the summerhouse probably makes most sense, if possible, otherwise I'd have to devise something else.

 

All ideas welcome.

Here are a couple of pics (not mine!) of the summerhouse before I moved in.

 

Edited December 9, 2024 by Leo S
Tydying up a bit

[Tomatobro]

Take a look at this. Once set up you get daily reports on meteor data for the night before via email and lots of other good stuff.

https://ukmeteornetwork.org/

Edited December 9, 2024 by Tomatobro
picture added

[Leo S]

Thanks Tomatobro. Looking forward to getting it all up and running. Unfortunately I don't think my system will be compatible with UKMON cameras.

[Carbon Brush]

Thinking about the mains supply. I'm sure it will provide more than ample power for PCs and astro kit.
Really you would only be thinking about power restrictions if boiling a kettle or using a big fan heater. Or both at once😁
But is it correctly installed and safe? The build quality looks good so I'm guessing it will be safe.
Presumably the building regs sign off documents exist? These will include electrical details.

Take a look in the house consumer unit. Is there a dedicated breaker for the summer house?
Alternatively, is there (somewhere in the main house) a small consumer unit or a box containing an RCD and breaker for the summer house?

[Leo S]

35 minutes ago, Carbon Brush said:

Thinking about the mains supply. I'm sure it will provide more than ample power for PCs and astro kit.
Really you would only be thinking about power restrictions if boiling a kettle or using a big fan heater. Or both at once😁
But is it correctly installed and safe? The build quality looks good so I'm guessing it will be safe.
Presumably the building regs sign off documents exist? These will include electrical details.

Take a look in the house consumer unit. Is there a dedicated breaker for the summer house?
Alternatively, is there (somewhere in the main house) a small consumer unit or a box containing an RCD and breaker for the summer house?

Thanks for the reply.

Well timed as I've just been out to inspect the storm damaged garage (wind buckled the door!) which houses the consumer unit. It say 63 AMPs so should be enough for boiling a kettle and even a heater (if I ever needed them there) as well as the PCs/cameras. More than I was expecting.

It's all correctly installed/safe. The previous owners had to provide certificates.

[Carbon Brush]

Yes all looking good. The recent certificates save you the effort of looking at components in consumer units and interpreting the information.

[Leo S]

I know I said 63A, but there are actually 3 modules/switches on the consumer unit. The main one says 63A, while the others say 16A and 6A.

I suppose that means power is a bit more limited, but I guess that should still be enough to run 3x PC with 400W PSU and 1x PC with 550W PSU + monitor at least?

 

[skybadger]

Comparing with existing installations I'd be looking at using existing models of external camera housings, the rectangular ones with flat glass plates or spherical domes with plastic boxes as the containers. They can mounted on tiltable ball mounts or commercial camera tilt arms. Pelicases in my mind is an expensive way to do this. 

I don't see why you are limited to hdmi, you could also use wireless or analogue for much longer distances.

Standard cable glands will seal the cables at points. 

My security video cams run off 12v , powered from a central mains transformer. They dont need a lot of current.

My allskycam is in a commercial dome housing but you can also find them on eBay and Amazon.  

 

[Carbon Brush]

Sounds like 63A refers to a main breaker or RCD. 16A is sockets. 6A lighting. 16A is enough for a dozen PCs

[Leo S]

3 hours ago, skybadger said:

Comparing with existing installations I'd be looking at using existing models of external camera housings, the rectangular ones with flat glass plates or spherical domes with plastic boxes as the containers. They can mounted on tiltable ball mounts or commercial camera tilt arms. Pelicases in my mind is an expensive way to do this. 

I don't see why you are limited to hdmi, you could also use wireless or analogue for much longer distances.

Standard cable glands will seal the cables at points. 

My security video cams run off 12v , powered from a central mains transformer. They dont need a lot of current.

My allskycam is in a commercial dome housing but you can also find them on eBay and Amazon.  

 

Thanks for the feedback.

I would be happy to use a pre-built camera housing, but do large enough housings exist? The camera needs 15cm (w) x 21cm (l) x 11cm (d) at least, and the window needs to be at least 8 x 8cm to accommodate the end of the lens. That's with the 28mm lens. Where could I find something like that?

I think the peli-case I'm thinking of is around £150 or £160, so £75-80 per camera, which is not that bad, but of course I'd need to include other extras on top like dome, etc.

The reason for HDMI is that the data rates need for the system are quite large (over 800MB/sec = 6.4Gbps bandwidth) and there is no other alternative, at least without adding more complexity/cost. I actually do have a HDMI booster here that should increase the distance, but it would mean more expense again for every camera that needed one.

The limited range shouldn't be too much of a problem anyway.

Looking at cable glands (didn't know what they were called), the problem would be getting the micro (type D) HDMI connectors though them I think?

Edited December 9, 2024 by Leo S

[Leo S]

Capturing footage at the resolution/frame rate I'd like presents a few challenges in this project because of the data rates involved.

The system I'm using centers around the software/PC capture card - the software gives me a high degree of automation:

AMD Ryzen sets 5 4600G processor
Gigabyte AMD B550M DS3H Micro-ATX Motherboard
Corsair Vengeance LPX 8 GB (1 x 8 GB) DDR4-2666 CL16 Memory
Black Magic Design Intensity Pro 4K HDMI Video Editing Card
Kingston A400 240 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (OS drive)
Integral 2TB M3+ SSD NVME M.2 2280 PCIe Gen4x4 R-4850MB/s W-4400MB/s TLC M2 Solid State Drive (Capture drive)
be quiet! Pure Power 11 400 W 80+ Gold Certified ATX Power Supply
CiT Silent ES, Black, Mid-Tower w/ Sound Dampening, 2x 120mm Fans, USB 3.0, E-ATX/ATX/MicroATX/Mini-ITX
OS: Win10
Software: UFO Capture HD2

 

For 4K 30FPS the system requires (according to the UFO capture software author):

"The capture target drive such as Raid0 SSD must be dedicate drive for capturing (means, must not be OS drive).
It needs over 800MB/sec = 6.4Gbps bandwidth. single SATA3.0 channel may not be enough. "

Besides restricting the distance, this high data rate makes finding a suitable drive to capture to a problem!

The testing I've done so far showed me what I'm up against. The software generated 427 GB of data/footage in 6 hours, so I can expect around/up to 1TB of data from each camera every night. Much of that data will be false detentions and small meteors.

I have yet to play around with "trigger masks" and that was a busy evening with houses in shot that often caught the light of passing cars which triggered a recording - I'm planning on pointing at least 2 cameras straight up, and the others will not have as much house frontage in the FOV, so that should be the most extreme upper limit.

Even so there should be a fair bit of data written each night, so as well as fast (more of a problem 10 years ago before M.2/when the plan was hatched - RAID was the only option - RAID0 effectively doubles the speed of your drives if you have two drives), a capture drive needs to have a bit more endurance/toughness to handle lots of data, night after night, unless I only want the drives to last a few months!

Now endurance/toughness for SSDs is measured in TBW (Terabytes Written) for each specific model of drive. For many of the consumer drives, including the likes of WD Black, and Samsung QVO (?) M.2 SSDs the TBW ratings are in the low-mid hundreds (mostly LOW) which is not great for my application but I did find that the Integral INSSD1TM280NM3PX 1TB M.2 drive had a rating of over 2000 TBW, so for my first capture PC I have two of those in RAID0 configuration. Thankfully they are quite reasonably priced.

For the other 3 PCs, which I recently built I took a bit of a chance and went for the 2TB version of that same drive even though I can't seem to find a TBW rating (!?), but as far as I'm aware, the TBW rating is usually higher for similar drives of higher capacities. There is some good info on the subject of high TBW SSDs I found posted here.

 

The problem I'm now facing is a bit complex - bear with me...

I only had Sony a7S II (4 of them) to begin with, and I need one that isn't tied up in an enclosure for "surprise events" - when I need to grab a low light camera and point it in the right direction basically. the MkII is perfect for this because it can record 4k 30FPS internally to card (as well as to HDMI recorders).

So I needed 5 cameras, but the MkII costs about 2x what a used MkI costs. The MkI can output 4k 30FPS like the MkII, but it does not record internally, so I bought myself a MkI the other day to substitute with one of the MkII cameras.

Now I have a sneaky suspicion that the software I need to run an a7S will only work with Win7, but luckily I have a "new" Win7 PC I just dusted off and got working again after having been mothballed for a decade. It was actually built as a capture PC (2x 1080p), but I changed my mind and decided to go for 4K, so the PC was left in the spare room.

The only problem now is, this Win7 PC does not have M.2 drive, and finding 2.5" SATA SSDs (which I'll need to run in RAID0 config. otherwise they won't be fast enough) with good TBW ratings that are reasonably priced has not been easy, but I'm looking at this 960GB which has a TBW of 3.5PB, but costs around £164 and two needed!

Edited December 10, 2024 by Leo S

[skybadger]

I was thinking of these.

CCTV Camera Housing Aluminum Alloy Indoor Outdoor Waterproof Dustproof Shell Box 10inch/ 12inch Security Camera Enclosure Case
£3.59
Free delivery
Aliexpress

https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjwxYLEoZ-KAxVqilAGHS1RJDkYABAnGgJkZw&ae=2&co=1&ase=5&gclid=CjwKCAiAjeW6BhBAEiwAdKltMj9tkrcoqHcX7O0N1qsc7cYln-cZXcYuqLMKdlAKsE-KcF2JysmiPhoCs9MQAvD_BwE&sph=&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESVeD2BxQlzKNiK-8aWp3PfgKCeUTphxnUpxZi_3RsBgrpuESGvT4GiBXlqCQVrdrOnOjAKozWk5Qn545iGR0Gn_jccGR6ilshWCv0KbQ7YKoV7X5yCz4&sig=AOD64_3tsTnpNBNCFNDJ0Agbw2w69yKiWg&ctype=5&q=&ved=2ahUKEwiMnv3DoZ-KAxV5Q0EAHQ_RCyMQwg8oAHoECAkQGg&adurl=

But now I know you are using DSLRs as the recording cameras, they're probably not relevant.

[Leo S]

4 hours ago, skybadger said:

I was thinking of these.

CCTV Camera Housing Aluminum Alloy Indoor Outdoor Waterproof Dustproof Shell Box 10inch/ 12inch Security Camera Enclosure Case
£3.59
Free delivery
Aliexpress

https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjwxYLEoZ-KAxVqilAGHS1RJDkYABAnGgJkZw&ae=2&co=1&ase=5&gclid=CjwKCAiAjeW6BhBAEiwAdKltMj9tkrcoqHcX7O0N1qsc7cYln-cZXcYuqLMKdlAKsE-KcF2JysmiPhoCs9MQAvD_BwE&sph=&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESVeD2BxQlzKNiK-8aWp3PfgKCeUTphxnUpxZi_3RsBgrpuESGvT4GiBXlqCQVrdrOnOjAKozWk5Qn545iGR0Gn_jccGR6ilshWCv0KbQ7YKoV7X5yCz4&sig=AOD64_3tsTnpNBNCFNDJ0Agbw2w69yKiWg&ctype=5&q=&ved=2ahUKEwiMnv3DoZ-KAxV5Q0EAHQ_RCyMQwg8oAHoECAkQGg&adurl=

But now I know you are using DSLRs as the recording cameras, they're probably not relevant.

Unfortunately the larger cameras complicate things, but it should be more than compensated for by the better s/n ratio and resolution.

Thanks either way for the suggestions. Taking the options that aren't going to work off the table gives me a better idea what I need to focus on to make this project work.

[Leo S]

Ordered more parts for the project. 4x acrylic dome, 2x peli 1550, 5m HDMI cables, and dummy batteries to power the cameras with 12v.

That's enough for me to start experimenting. I have a camera rail or two which I could perhaps mount in the case, and in conjunction with some small ball heads, I'm thinking they might give me the flexibility I need to point the cameras in slightly different directions.

I'm thinking, for the cables, I'll try to find some oversized cable glands, and then use silicone sealant to seal any remaining gaps. I'm guessing I should use separate holes for each cable - 3 cables for each case, HDMI out x2 and 12V in x1.

Any advice on drilling holes in plastic? I've done so in the past with a hole cutter, and hated it! Plastic does not drill well.

I still need to find appropriate sized hole cutters, including a 5 inch for the domes. It looks like I'll be limited to 28mm since the 20/1.4 won't leave much (if any) room for maneuver.

[Leo S]

I have nearly all the major system components now. Just waiting for the domes, which should be here in about a week. Peli cases and a couple more 28mm DG Arts arrived in the last few days.

I've ordered a 130mm hole saw which should be here in the next couple of days, so I can start to experiment with how to mount the cameras in the case.

[Leo S]

Domes have arrived! I've also been trying to work out how to attach everything in the case. I think I can make it work, but perhaps with some limitations.

Here is a shot of the case set up with one of the two cameras in (temporarily) position. The second camera should fit beside it. Ignore the stone bowl and desiccant bag. I just used them to stop the camera slipping/falling over while I took the shot.

This shot shows roughly how I want to position the cameras in the case, but they may need raising a bit. I'll have to see how it works out. One may need to be higher than the other so that the domes can fit on the front (actually the bottom) of the peli case.

It's going to be a tight fit even with this quite large/deep case. The base where I intend to attach the ball head will have to jut out a bit, into the lid of the case, but there should be enough room.

I will need to make the base mobile in one direction. The ball-head + QR clamp provide adjustments in other directions.

In the image below I've used a couple of bits of wood to give an idea how it will work. The top bit of wood (or one like it - probably larger!) will be connected to the ball head, and needs to slide back/forth along the bottom bit of wood (which is connected to the case), so I can control how deep into the dome the lens goes. It only needs to provided a few cm of movement, so I can make adjustments and make sure both lenses point in the right direction. Once they are pointed the right way I could potentially "fix them down" I guess.

Any suggestions how I might get them to slide, or how to do it a different way?

 

I'm also struggling with another major issue.

In order to get both cameras (in any one peli case) to cover different parts of the sky, I'll have to turn the cameras a bit, but I'm not sure if the domes will provide the necessary room needed to accommodate this - there might also be distortion issues too perhaps.

The only solution I can envisage is a wedge with a hole in it, that can go between the peli case and the dome, which would give the dome a bit of an angle. It would need to be 3d printed. (any takers?😀 - I'd need EIGHT in total!)

But I'm not sure how well even this would work - to work properly I'd need to drill an ellipse in the peli, and the wedge would also need to be elliptical, in an ideal world! But perhaps if the wedge is only a few degrees, I'm thinking a wedge still might be worth doing!?!

To complicate matters, I wanted to have two different configurations using the cases:

1 -  For covering the sky above 45 degrees I wanted to have the two camera FOV's stacked on top of each other.

2 - For covering below 45 degrees I wanted to have the camera FOV's next to each other.

Unfortunately I'm not sure I'll be able to do "2" above because I'm using 28mm lenses which cover a horizontal FOV of 65 degrees, and I can't see how I could achieve the necessary angle between the two cameras in a case so that both cameras cover adjacent areas of sky, but I think "1" might just be possible because the vertical FOV is only 46 degrees.

If I can't find a way to get the cameras pointing at different parts of the sky I may have to ditch the "2 cameras in a case" idea.

Edit to add: I just measured the front diameter of the 28mm Art lens - pretty much exactly 3", and the domes are 5" so that should be enough wiggle room for 2 cameras in a case to at least be viable.

Edited January 8 by Leo S

[Leo S]

I found some pics I had saved of someone else's peli case camera housing project.

Seeing these gives me some ideas, but not sure I could incorporate them into a 2 camera design.

I like the way the QR plate is turned 90 degrees, but for something like that to work the lens needs to stay square with the peli case surface, so it could not work with a 2 camera design.

[Leo S]

Making progress now. Slowly but surely.

I've solved the sliding mechanism to move the camera back/forth problem - I think - so I've got together (or ordered) all the smaller pieces of the puzzle (nuts, bolts, etc), and have begun to make the small wooden supports that will go between the cameras and the case. Just waiting for the drill press I've ordered so I can finish them off properly. I couldn't think of another way to ensure I drilled them square on, and didn't want to have to re-do them as I probably would have to if I attempted to drill them by hand! It's only a cheap £100 press from Amazon, but looks like it should be able to do the job.

Hopefully it'll get here soon as I cant progress further without it. I'll post another update once the wood parts are in place.